Another Dumb Move By GM
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Originally Posted By: pbm
Originally Posted By: Jeff3126
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: pbm
Any opinions on the Cruze 1.4T vs. 1.8?
1.8L has a timing belt while the 1.4L has a chain.
Based on the limited posts I've seen on the Cruze forum, the 1.4L is offering slightly better fuel economy and a bit more power. It isn't direct-injected either, so I wouldn't worry about the valve deposits.
The Turbo 1.4L has 2 more horsepower.
They list an Eco model which shows the 1.4T with manual transmission but apparently it isn't out yet.
Typical GM, they offer the 'hotter' engine with an A/T only.
Is the 1.8 exactly the same as the one that was in the Saturn Astra? The Astra 1.8 Ecotec needed to have the valves adjusted manually while the 2.2 Ecotecs had automatic adjusters.
That's not "typical GM". That's typical "every automaker under the sun". With most models, the higher end engine is only available with automatic. Case in point, the Jetta TDI. Automatic only. Precious few vehicles are available in a manual anymore. Stop singling GM out, because they are NOT the only company to do this.
Originally Posted By: Jeff3126
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: pbm
Any opinions on the Cruze 1.4T vs. 1.8?
1.8L has a timing belt while the 1.4L has a chain.
Based on the limited posts I've seen on the Cruze forum, the 1.4L is offering slightly better fuel economy and a bit more power. It isn't direct-injected either, so I wouldn't worry about the valve deposits.
The Turbo 1.4L has 2 more horsepower.
They list an Eco model which shows the 1.4T with manual transmission but apparently it isn't out yet.
Typical GM, they offer the 'hotter' engine with an A/T only.
Is the 1.8 exactly the same as the one that was in the Saturn Astra? The Astra 1.8 Ecotec needed to have the valves adjusted manually while the 2.2 Ecotecs had automatic adjusters.
That's not "typical GM". That's typical "every automaker under the sun". With most models, the higher end engine is only available with automatic. Case in point, the Jetta TDI. Automatic only. Precious few vehicles are available in a manual anymore. Stop singling GM out, because they are NOT the only company to do this.
Originally Posted By: Nick R
That's not "typical GM". That's typical "every automaker under the sun". With most models, the higher end engine is only available with automatic. Case in point, the Jetta TDI. Automatic only. Precious few vehicles are available in a manual anymore. Stop singling GM out, because they are NOT the only company to do this.
The Jetta TDI comes with 6 speed manual or 6 speed DSG auto
That's not "typical GM". That's typical "every automaker under the sun". With most models, the higher end engine is only available with automatic. Case in point, the Jetta TDI. Automatic only. Precious few vehicles are available in a manual anymore. Stop singling GM out, because they are NOT the only company to do this.
The Jetta TDI comes with 6 speed manual or 6 speed DSG auto
Originally Posted By: Nick R
Stop singling GM out, because they are NOT the only company to do this.
I find it quite biased of you to defend GM so strongly, but not give other automakers the same treatment.
And also, the Jetta does come in either a manual or DCT.
Stop singling GM out, because they are NOT the only company to do this.
I find it quite biased of you to defend GM so strongly, but not give other automakers the same treatment.
And also, the Jetta does come in either a manual or DCT.
When were these videos produced? Looks like they were first posted on January 3, when was the 2011 Elantra introduced for sale?
With production time and all the other factors thrown in, it might be that the 2011 Elantra wasn't out when these were shot.
Who is WheelsTV? Were they contracted by GM to do these videos? I see the videos link directly to Chevy/GM's site at youtube...so it must be a sponsored video, one could presume. I notice they also compare against the 2010 Honda, I wonder when WheelsTV shot these comparison vids?
With production time and all the other factors thrown in, it might be that the 2011 Elantra wasn't out when these were shot.
Who is WheelsTV? Were they contracted by GM to do these videos? I see the videos link directly to Chevy/GM's site at youtube...so it must be a sponsored video, one could presume. I notice they also compare against the 2010 Honda, I wonder when WheelsTV shot these comparison vids?
Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
When were these videos produced? Looks like they were first posted on January 3, when was the 2011 Elantra introduced for sale?
The new Elantra was released in early December.
When were these videos produced? Looks like they were first posted on January 3, when was the 2011 Elantra introduced for sale?
The new Elantra was released in early December.
So, it is likely the 2011 Elantra wasn't on the market when these vids were shot. Assuming at least a month or two to produce and approve them. And thats a guess on my part, any idea how long that process would take between a major manufacturer and a marketing subcontractor like WheelsTV?
Still it probably would have been better to wait a month and compare to the 2011. Since that is what the consumer will be doing in the marketplace.
Still it probably would have been better to wait a month and compare to the 2011. Since that is what the consumer will be doing in the marketplace.
Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
So, it is likely the 2011 Elantra wasn't on the market when these vids were shot. Assuming at least a month or two to produce and approve them. And thats a guess on my part, any idea how long that process would take between a major manufacturer and a marketing subcontractor like WheelsTV?
Still it probably would have been better to wait a month and compare to the 2011. Since that is what the consumer will be doing in the marketplace.
Now, let's not go throwing logic and facts into the bash-fest here....
In addition consider this: many Hyundai dealers are going to be dealing big-time to get rid of 2010 Elantras. The one I bought my Sonata from is, and, in fact, the reason I bought my Sonata was precisely because the 2011's were out and I was comparing a 2010 Sonata to a 2010 Malibu, and the Hyundai dealer smoked the heck out of the Chevy dealer's offer.
But, I know, this is Bash-the-GM here, so I'll step out of the way and let the fun continue....
So, it is likely the 2011 Elantra wasn't on the market when these vids were shot. Assuming at least a month or two to produce and approve them. And thats a guess on my part, any idea how long that process would take between a major manufacturer and a marketing subcontractor like WheelsTV?
Still it probably would have been better to wait a month and compare to the 2011. Since that is what the consumer will be doing in the marketplace.
Now, let's not go throwing logic and facts into the bash-fest here....
In addition consider this: many Hyundai dealers are going to be dealing big-time to get rid of 2010 Elantras. The one I bought my Sonata from is, and, in fact, the reason I bought my Sonata was precisely because the 2011's were out and I was comparing a 2010 Sonata to a 2010 Malibu, and the Hyundai dealer smoked the heck out of the Chevy dealer's offer.
But, I know, this is Bash-the-GM here, so I'll step out of the way and let the fun continue....
The 2011 Elantra would own the Cruze, it would be an embarassment for GM. GM cars ars still shoddy and full of cheap parts in my opinion.
Originally Posted By: subiedriver
The 2011 Elantra would own the Cruze, it would be an embarassment for GM. GM cars ars still shoddy and full of cheap parts in my opinion.
I'll take that as uniformed biased opinion. It's one thing to be biased or uninformed, but it's another to be an active basher. I don't see GM or domestic fans bashing other brands like some bash GM.
The 2011 Elantra would own the Cruze, it would be an embarassment for GM. GM cars ars still shoddy and full of cheap parts in my opinion.
I'll take that as uniformed biased opinion. It's one thing to be biased or uninformed, but it's another to be an active basher. I don't see GM or domestic fans bashing other brands like some bash GM.
I've worked as a detailer in a GM shop for 6 years now, I've seen GM cars come in getting steering racks at 30K miles, power steering pumps before 50K miles, computer and electrical problems are pretty much constant, we see'em every day. I will not own a GM car. The only domestic manufacturer that I would look at is Ford.
We've also done a boatload of transmissions under warrany, they fail before 60K miles, GM = junk parts.
We've also done a boatload of transmissions under warrany, they fail before 60K miles, GM = junk parts.
Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
So, it is likely the 2011 Elantra wasn't on the market when these vids were shot. Assuming at least a month or two to produce and approve them. And thats a guess on my part, any idea how long that process would take between a major manufacturer and a marketing subcontractor like WheelsTV?
Still it probably would have been better to wait a month and compare to the 2011. Since that is what the consumer will be doing in the marketplace.
There you go again being sensible lol. I saw somewhere where it's said there is a NH state flag in the background. I can't see it but this would seem to put it at early Fall. I agree they should've either released it sooner or waited till the newer model Hyundia came out. Or they could've just made a commercial with fat rapper rats comparing the Cruze to cardboard flintstone cars
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So, it is likely the 2011 Elantra wasn't on the market when these vids were shot. Assuming at least a month or two to produce and approve them. And thats a guess on my part, any idea how long that process would take between a major manufacturer and a marketing subcontractor like WheelsTV?
Still it probably would have been better to wait a month and compare to the 2011. Since that is what the consumer will be doing in the marketplace.
There you go again being sensible lol. I saw somewhere where it's said there is a NH state flag in the background. I can't see it but this would seem to put it at early Fall. I agree they should've either released it sooner or waited till the newer model Hyundia came out. Or they could've just made a commercial with fat rapper rats comparing the Cruze to cardboard flintstone cars
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Originally Posted By: subiedriver
I've worked as a detailer in a GM shop for 6 years now, I've seen GM cars come in getting steering racks at 30K miles, power steering pumps before 50K miles, computer and electrical problems are pretty much constant, we see'em every day. I will not own a GM car. The only domestic manufacturer that I would look at is Ford.
We've also done a boatload of transmissions under warrany, they fail before 60K miles, GM = junk parts.
And if you worked in a Honda shop, you'd likely see enough transmissions replaced you'd be scared to get near one. Work in a Toyota shop and you'd see the frame rot recall first-hand as well as a pile of sludged-up engines. Work in a Ford shop, you'll see launched spark plugs in the Modular engines (and broken-off plugs in the 3V), ball joints and tie-rods in the older gen F and E chassis like crazy....etc. Oh, and at the moment, a whole pile of Windstar vans!
Working in a dealership, you will see the worst of whatever brand the dealership represents. That's how it goes servicing what you sell.
I've worked as a detailer in a GM shop for 6 years now, I've seen GM cars come in getting steering racks at 30K miles, power steering pumps before 50K miles, computer and electrical problems are pretty much constant, we see'em every day. I will not own a GM car. The only domestic manufacturer that I would look at is Ford.
We've also done a boatload of transmissions under warrany, they fail before 60K miles, GM = junk parts.
And if you worked in a Honda shop, you'd likely see enough transmissions replaced you'd be scared to get near one. Work in a Toyota shop and you'd see the frame rot recall first-hand as well as a pile of sludged-up engines. Work in a Ford shop, you'll see launched spark plugs in the Modular engines (and broken-off plugs in the 3V), ball joints and tie-rods in the older gen F and E chassis like crazy....etc. Oh, and at the moment, a whole pile of Windstar vans!
Working in a dealership, you will see the worst of whatever brand the dealership represents. That's how it goes servicing what you sell.
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Originally Posted By: subiedriver
The 2011 Elantra would own the Cruze, it would be an embarassment for GM. GM cars ars still shoddy and full of cheap parts in my opinion.
I'll take that as uniformed biased opinion. It's one thing to be biased or uninformed, but it's another to be an active basher. I don't see GM or domestic fans bashing other brands like some bash GM.
You've missed several 12+ page posts then on Toyota where many of the same posters defending GM here attacked Toyota fairly rabidly. But I recall you posting in those threads as well, and hammering on Toyota and suggesting their "reliability commercials" were bogus, misleading, and you stopped just short of calling it false advertising.
Here you defend GM when clearly this type of commercial is the very thing you accused Toyota's commercials of being: misleading.
Its a straw man argument in this thread that "everyone else is doing it too, making it alright" unless someone can demonstrate with a link to something showing everyone else doing this type of practice.
I don't agree with it regardless of who is doing it. It is misleading to compare a 2011 model to a 2010 model, without informing the viewers that 2 different model years are being compared and that it is, thus, not a head-to-head comparison that they are being led to believe it is.
-Spyder
Originally Posted By: subiedriver
The 2011 Elantra would own the Cruze, it would be an embarassment for GM. GM cars ars still shoddy and full of cheap parts in my opinion.
I'll take that as uniformed biased opinion. It's one thing to be biased or uninformed, but it's another to be an active basher. I don't see GM or domestic fans bashing other brands like some bash GM.
You've missed several 12+ page posts then on Toyota where many of the same posters defending GM here attacked Toyota fairly rabidly. But I recall you posting in those threads as well, and hammering on Toyota and suggesting their "reliability commercials" were bogus, misleading, and you stopped just short of calling it false advertising.
Here you defend GM when clearly this type of commercial is the very thing you accused Toyota's commercials of being: misleading.
Its a straw man argument in this thread that "everyone else is doing it too, making it alright" unless someone can demonstrate with a link to something showing everyone else doing this type of practice.
I don't agree with it regardless of who is doing it. It is misleading to compare a 2011 model to a 2010 model, without informing the viewers that 2 different model years are being compared and that it is, thus, not a head-to-head comparison that they are being led to believe it is.
-Spyder
Originally Posted By: Spyder7
But I recall you posting in those threads as well, and hammering on Toyota and suggesting their "reliability commercials" were bogus, misleading, and you stopped just short of calling it false advertising.
Here you defend GM when clearly this type of commercial is the very thing you accused Toyota's commercials of being: misleading.
What I believe I said is Toyota constantly advertises greater dependability whether or not it is true and that's how they sell so many cars. Plenty of people responded the same way, "they all do advertising that isn't factual, not just Toyota". You might've even been one of them, I don't remember. Did anyone through the recalls ever say "there's dumb old junk Toyota advertising dependabilty"? I don't think so and I don't think there's any comparison between how GM gets criticised and bashed vs any other automaker IMO. I see this as apples and oranges and a strawman.
Quote:
Its a straw man argument in this thread that "everyone else is doing it too, making it alright" unless someone can demonstrate with a link to something showing everyone else doing this type of practice.
I don't agree with it regardless of who is doing it. It is misleading to compare a 2011 model to a 2010 model, without informing the viewers that 2 different model years are being compared and that it is, thus, not a head-to-head comparison that they are being led to believe it is.
-Spyder
I never really said whether it was misleading either way or that I agree with it. I just pointed out that maybe it was not as intentionally misleading as some claimed-the video seems to be made awhile back and a version of the cruze has been out in Europe for about 3 years. I don't think it is a strawman at all to say it's not just GM that does these kind of thing. You are claiming some are justifying it when they are actually not.
But I recall you posting in those threads as well, and hammering on Toyota and suggesting their "reliability commercials" were bogus, misleading, and you stopped just short of calling it false advertising.
Here you defend GM when clearly this type of commercial is the very thing you accused Toyota's commercials of being: misleading.
What I believe I said is Toyota constantly advertises greater dependability whether or not it is true and that's how they sell so many cars. Plenty of people responded the same way, "they all do advertising that isn't factual, not just Toyota". You might've even been one of them, I don't remember. Did anyone through the recalls ever say "there's dumb old junk Toyota advertising dependabilty"? I don't think so and I don't think there's any comparison between how GM gets criticised and bashed vs any other automaker IMO. I see this as apples and oranges and a strawman.
Quote:
Its a straw man argument in this thread that "everyone else is doing it too, making it alright" unless someone can demonstrate with a link to something showing everyone else doing this type of practice.
I don't agree with it regardless of who is doing it. It is misleading to compare a 2011 model to a 2010 model, without informing the viewers that 2 different model years are being compared and that it is, thus, not a head-to-head comparison that they are being led to believe it is.
-Spyder
I never really said whether it was misleading either way or that I agree with it. I just pointed out that maybe it was not as intentionally misleading as some claimed-the video seems to be made awhile back and a version of the cruze has been out in Europe for about 3 years. I don't think it is a strawman at all to say it's not just GM that does these kind of thing. You are claiming some are justifying it when they are actually not.
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
I don't think there's any comparison between how GM gets criticised and bashed vs any other automaker IMO.
I'd say that either GM or Toyota has an equal shot at the "most bashed brand" award on BITOG. I have owned both myself, and enjoyed both myself, and don't really claim allegiance to either, but both are sorely and repeatedly flogged.
Perhaps it's no coincidence that both are the top-2 automakers in the world in terms of sales. Stones are always thrown at the guys on top.
I don't think there's any comparison between how GM gets criticised and bashed vs any other automaker IMO.
I'd say that either GM or Toyota has an equal shot at the "most bashed brand" award on BITOG. I have owned both myself, and enjoyed both myself, and don't really claim allegiance to either, but both are sorely and repeatedly flogged.
Perhaps it's no coincidence that both are the top-2 automakers in the world in terms of sales. Stones are always thrown at the guys on top.
Originally Posted By: Spyder7
...It is misleading to compare a 2011 model to a 2010 model, without informing the viewers that 2 different model years are being compared and that it is, thus, not a head-to-head comparison that they are being led to believe it is.
-Spyder
Not to nit pick, but the video does clearly state 2011 Cruze and 2010 Elantra. They didn't go out of their way to make the point repeatedly or anything, but they also aren't hiding anything either. Watch the start of the video again.
...It is misleading to compare a 2011 model to a 2010 model, without informing the viewers that 2 different model years are being compared and that it is, thus, not a head-to-head comparison that they are being led to believe it is.
-Spyder
Not to nit pick, but the video does clearly state 2011 Cruze and 2010 Elantra. They didn't go out of their way to make the point repeatedly or anything, but they also aren't hiding anything either. Watch the start of the video again.
Originally Posted By: subiedriver
The 2011 Elantra would own the Cruze, it would be an embarassment for GM. GM cars ars still shoddy and full of cheap parts in my opinion.
That sounds like a well thought out and reasonable argument for the Elantra over the Cruze.
/sarcasm.
The 2011 Elantra would own the Cruze, it would be an embarassment for GM. GM cars ars still shoddy and full of cheap parts in my opinion.
That sounds like a well thought out and reasonable argument for the Elantra over the Cruze.
/sarcasm.
Is it just me, or does anyone else fine it a little sad that GM has to compare its latest and greatest Chevy to an outgoing Hyundai model?
They don't compare it to a Honda, Subaru, Toyota, Ford or Chrysler, they compare it to a Hyundai.
Maybe they couldn't find a Kia to use?
They don't compare it to a Honda, Subaru, Toyota, Ford or Chrysler, they compare it to a Hyundai.
Maybe they couldn't find a Kia to use?
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