And you thought your job was tough...

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: Tempest
You do realize that their government is allowing this practice? And I think a better question is why aren't there better, safer jobs for these people? You will find that answer in the actions of their government over the last few decades.


So you FINALLY admit that humans and corporations will act immorally, and without compassion until Governments stop them doing it.

You're making progress Tempest.

 

[Tempest]

Originally Posted By: Shannow

So you FINALLY admit that humans and corporations will act immorally, and without compassion until Governments stop them doing it.

Of course there will be people that will do immoral things. That's why we have police, courts, and jails.

The question you are missing is, who will stop governments from acting immorally and which has the greatest effect on people's living standard.

 

[Tempest]

Quote:
You can bet that trades wouldn't be fair as they would have been strong armed into unfair trade anyways.

So you are saying that India not trading was beneficial to them?

Quote:
Do you think market economy would serve them better when they are the slave?

Of course they are better off under a market economy. But the only semblance of a market economy has only recently occurred. They had a highly regulated economy after their Independence.

More can be found here.

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: Tempest
Of course there will be people that will do immoral things. That's why we have police, courts, and jails.


And you believe that justice will be served when the government is the business in corruption, and basic regulation is little to none and consumers and employees are kept illiterates and don't know about safety, fair trading practice (against monopoly), etc?

Quote:
The question you are missing is, who will stop governments from acting immorally and which has the greatest effect on people's living standard.


Wrong question, the question is who encourages the government to do so? Hint: it is not the working public or the consumer. People's revolt always counter act against an extreme government through out history, time and time again.

Originally Posted By: Tempest
So you are saying that India not trading was beneficial to them?


Depends on what kind of trading. Do you think all trades are equal and trading opium would make a great nation? And do you think WTO didn't have "protection" for nations in trade that countries balk at all the time? I'd imagine the result would be similar as India would get the short end of the stick regardless of trade or not.

The biggest disaster they got was a split into 2 nations between India and Pakistan, and the prolong military conflicts between once the same people. This is not something trade can resolve, and the expense and waste that could have been used for development would be huge.

Quote:
Of course they are better off under a market economy. But the only semblance of a market economy has only recently occurred. They had a highly regulated economy after their Independence.

More can be found here.


And you think they are market economy now but not before? I'll tell you that the major difference is the high tech industry and outsourcing and if you correlate that into believing opium, sugar, tea, rice trade would build you the same great economy they have now, you are lying to yourself.

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: Tempest
The question you are missing is, who will stop governments from acting immorally and which has the greatest effect on people's living standard.


The law and the voters? The government is not above the law. If it act as if it is and the people don't act, then maybe the populace doesn't care and is to blame?

 

[Mr Nice]

I saw on TV that Walmart will open a new store in south FL and they are expecting over 12,000 applications for approx 325 positions paying around $9.00 an hour

In a few months these workers will be complaining how bad they have it and terrible working conditions at Walmart and no union to protect them.

They don't know how lucky they are to be in the USA.

and for the record I own stock in WMT

 

[mechanicx]

Well they're not as lucky to be in the US as they use to be. And with the way things are going how will it be in the future? And why should they be happy with $9/hr when that will barely cover the going rate for rent and Walmart is rolling in dough? Should they start to be unhappy at $7/hr or how low? The fact that they have to compete with 4,000 other applicants doesn't make it better for them.

 

[Mr Nice]

Mechanicx,

Take some time and read about the job cuts on:

http://www.dailyjobcuts.com/

Bottom line, if a person doesn't like their job then they should quit and find a better paying job that they like. No need to be so sour, bitter, miserable and unhappy at your work place. people should be happy just to have a job.

 

[mechanicx]

But the problem is that is passively just taking what is offered and available. If you never stop and bargain for what you are worth where you are at, then you eventually run out of other better places. We are already past that point now.

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
Mechanicx,

Take some time and read about the job cuts on:

http://www.dailyjobcuts.com/

Bottom line, if a person doesn't like their job then they should quit and find a better paying job that they like. No need to be so sour, bitter, miserable and unhappy at your work place. people should be happy just to have a job.

Sounds so simple! I'm sure almost all the folks applying to walmart would like a better job, but if you have no job then walmart will have to do until something better comes along.
Even if everyone goes to college, someone will still have to work for walmart, and there's not a good reason why they can't be paid a decent wage out of some of the Waltons billions...

 

[Mr Nice]

IndyIan,

What should a 'decent wage' for a Walmart cashier / stock clerk be in your opinion ?

 

[morris]

"The shipping companies are making money too by selling these old ships to companies in Bangladesh at a a good price instead of paying to dismantle the old ships in their own countries."
true,true, but the shipping companies REALY make money from the new ships that are 10 times bigger than the ones that just got scraped.

 

[brianl703]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx

The law and the voters? The government is not above the law. If it act as if it is and the people don't act, then maybe the populace doesn't care and is to blame?


You are exactly correct.

 

[brianl703]

Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
They don't know how lucky they are to be in the USA.


They are "lucky" because there were others before them who made hard choices, and I'm not talking about getting on a boat or plane bound for the USA.

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
IndyIan,

What should a 'decent wage' for a Walmart cashier / stock clerk be in your opinion ?


For solid 40 hour weeks with reasonable benefits? Probably even $12/hour would be fine. It would cost walmart billions! But with sales approaching half a trillion dollars, a small 1 or 2% price increase would cover it. I don't see the downside?

 

[Tempest]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan

For solid 40 hour weeks with reasonable benefits? Probably even $12/hour would be fine. It would cost walmart billions! But with sales approaching half a trillion dollars, a small 1 or 2% price increase would cover it. I don't see the downside?

http://ycharts.com/companies/WMT/profit_margin

Walmart typically makes huge, draconian, super evil, money grubbing....


less than 4% profit a year.

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: Tempest
Originally Posted By: IndyIan

For solid 40 hour weeks with reasonable benefits? Probably even $12/hour would be fine. It would cost walmart billions! But with sales approaching half a trillion dollars, a small 1 or 2% price increase would cover it. I don't see the downside?

http://ycharts.com/companies/WMT/profit_margin

Walmart typically makes huge, draconian, super evil, money grubbing....


less than 4% profit a year.


Yeah every company reports they make about 4% profit margin no matter how succesful they are. How much profit margin does someone making $9/hr make? The way I see it by the standard a business use, that would be a huge loss. After you figure the gowing basic rate for your housing, utilities, food, transportation, clothing and grooming products, paying for your own healthcare and every thing else that is required to be a stable and presentable employee, at $9/hr you are working at a net loss. It would only take a few dollars more per hour to put you in the black, so it's nothing excessive. You might say they are not equivalent, but would a business operate let alone at a profit if its rent alone wiped out most all of its income like it does for a $9/hr worker?

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan
For solid 40 hour weeks with reasonable benefits? Probably even $12/hour would be fine. It would cost walmart billions! But with sales approaching half a trillion dollars, a small 1 or 2% price increase would cover it. I don't see the downside?


The problem would not be 1 or 2% increase for Walmart, but rather ONLY on Walmart. If Target, Costco, McDonalds, Sears, etc do not increase their salary and benefit in a similar scale, then it would be a huge disadvantage to Walmart.

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
For solid 40 hour weeks with reasonable benefits? Probably even $12/hour would be fine. It would cost walmart billions! But with sales approaching half a trillion dollars, a small 1 or 2% price increase would cover it. I don't see the downside?


The problem would not be 1 or 2% increase for Walmart, but rather ONLY on Walmart. If Target, Costco, McDonalds, Sears, etc do not increase their salary and benefit in a similar scale, then it would be a huge disadvantage to Walmart.



Therein lies the problem with the labor market. No one is going to do the "right" or fair thing only what they have to do in pursuit of maximum profits. If Walmart payed more and no one wanted to work at its similar competitors, the competitors would have to shut down and Walmart would get all their business or match Walmart's pay rate. But this could never come close to happening because the labor market is so tight and industry works to keep it that way with outsourcing (less jobs in the market, more competition) and encourage worker immigration to the US. So that way the labor rate stays just over minimum wage. I still don't let Walmart off the hook, as they have a very efficient distribution system, and they pay beans there too and demand a high output. Also they squeeze their suppliers more than other retails did, which squeezes those worker and even caused a big part of the outsourcing to meet cost. They did all this to marginally undercut their competitors resulting in taking more market share and making mor profit whether they report a higher profit or not. Now all the retailers had to do as Walmart did, and it seems like nowadays all employers not just retailers. Unlike the companies and consumers, workers have no leverage other than what union solidarity can give them.

 

[Mr Nice]

All retail jobs pay very ittle when you are first hired, only the managers make decent money.

I was making $3.35 an hour to unload produce trucks (10-13 pallets of merchandise daily) at 4 AM for Publix Supermarkets back 25 years ago. I never complained and didn't whine about the low pay and constant heavy lifting. I just did my job and collected a paycheck every Thursday.

Again, if you don't like your job and feel you are under paid then you need to quit and move onto something better. Labor Unions will never solve the problem of unhappy miserable Americans actually having to get out and work and not every thing be handed to them just for punching a time-clock.