Amsoil Universal ATF/Mopar+4 70,054 miles,545-RFE

[jeremiah2360]

From a 2003 Dodge Dakota 4.7 V8 Automatic

I posted awhile back that I saw steam/smoke puffing from my Trans dip stick tube so I had it analyzed with Tan and Particle Count.Trans fluid was drained and refilled twice with vintage 2003 Amsoil Universal Trans fluid.Once at 9,997 miles and again,this time with new filters, at 16,815 miles. A drain and fill is 7 quarts, 1/2 the capacity for this Trans(14 quarts).

By Blackstone Labs;

Miles on oil--70,057
Miles on Unit--86,872
Sample Date--05/09/07
Aluminum--8
Chromium--0
Iron--46
Copper--85
Lead--44
Tin--7
Molybdenum--0
Nickel--1
Maganese--3
Silver--0
Titanium--0
Potassium--1
Boron--54
Silicon--76
Sodium--15
Calcium--348
Magnesium--3
Phosphorus--436
Zinc--7
Barium--1
[email protected]
Flashpoint--420
Water0.0
Insolubles--Trace
Tan--1.5
ISO Cleanliness Code--16/13

Blackstone didn`t like the Silicon,which could very well be the two pan drops I did resealing both times with Permatex "Right Stuff".They said the Copper was high,they said maybe it`s because of normal accumulation due to the long run.I say it could also be the cooler?? Lead looked high to me but I`m used to seeing engine UOA`S.Blackstone also said the oil was fairly acidic with the Tan at 1.5,2.0 being the maximum reading.They also said the ISO Cleanliness Code showed a clean reading for just about any type of oil including ATF.

Should I justify the Silicon and Copper and just do another refill to bring the Tan down and refresh the fluid a bit or do a complete refill?

I`m not looking forward to my first messy DIY complete refill job

 

[TeeDub]

Based on this data, I'd say a pan drain and new filter every 30,000 miles should maintain the fluid quality indefinitely. Provided the Fe levels stays < 100 ppm the wear rates should remain pretty constant.

The Si is from the gasket material and I'd guess a lot of the Cu is from the oil cooler, so those wouldn't worry me.

 

[TimVipond]

Could be from the Permatex. It contains of to 75% silcon compounds. But no copper as in some sealants.
Did Blackstone recommend changing the fluid?
Was this normal or severe service?
What does your owners manual recommend for change interval.
From the Amsoil site:
AMSOIL Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid is recommended for use up to 50,000 miles under severe service* and up to 100,000 miles under normal service* or according to the vehicle manufacturer recommended intervals, whichever is longer.

 

[jeremiah2360]

Thanks TeeDub, I like your idea a lot! What fluid would you reccommend?

TimVipond I tow in summer(4500 pounds,boat trailer)but not at any great distances. I also do a lot of stop and go driving in traffic and also will go WOT at times so it would be considered severe service.

That being said the I feel Trans should be OK with the 30,000 mile refills/fiters(there are two)given the data and TeeDub`s opinion.I think TeeDub has exceptional insight,especially when he tells you what you want to hear,lol

.

I`ll probably do two refills and resample after 60,000 miles to see how it`s doing.

 

[TimVipond]

Considering you went over the Amsoil recommended severe service of 50,000 miles by 40%, I'd say your wear numbers look pretty good. Copper is considered normal in ATs at 5-250 ppm, so I wouldn't worry about it. I'd drop the pan and change the AMSOIL and filter every 50,000 miles to maintain their warranty. Amsoil has improved their ATF since 2003.

 

[unDummy]

Why the RTV, isn't there a pan gasket available with the double filter kits?

The double filters are keeping the fluid clean.

Wear seems to be a tad high for mileage. I would definitely consider a full flush with the Amsoil to get a better baseline. You had too many miles on the old ATF prior to switching to Amsoil. More partial changes are needed, or start from scratch with a full flush.

Fluid is at 6.2cst. Thats not bad but I would expect better. Towing, stop and go, and leadfoot are hurting.

What type of driving is causing 'puffs of smoke'?

Because of the towing, and driver induced stressed, I would consider upgrades. Since filtration seems to be well taken care of, I would consider a deep sump pan if available. You could probably go twice as long on the filters with a simpler drainplug drain/refill every 30k. The additional capacity should help with cooling and TAN retention.
A shift kit should also help if you don't mind some mild comfort lost to a firmer/quicker shift.

 

[Colt45ws]

Any gaskets that come with those filter kits always seems to be cheap cork #@$%!.
The Transgo HD2 reprogramming kit seems to be liked by people with this trans. I want to put it on the Dodge, but Im not sure if my step-mom would go for it, lol. I read the instructions to it, looks real simple to install.

 

[jeremiah2360]

TeeDub I was spraying throttle body cleaner into the throttle body while reving the motor on a cool day. I noticed little puffs of smoke coming out of the dipstick. The puffs were rhythmic,thought they were in sync with the pump?? I checked it again on a warmer day and it wasn`t as bad but still there. A co-worker has the same truck,but a 2000. I plan on checking his,maybe these transmissions just do that. He has 140,000 miles on his with one pan drop

After seeing the analysis I`m not worried about it.

Onmo is right on with the pan gasket. The one that came with the filters was cork,Filtran filter kit from bulkpart.com. Used one on the first pan drop and it cracked during installation,junk. Maybe Felpro makes a better one out of different material but the "Right Stuff" works well and probably will stick with that.

TeeDub doing pan drops at 10,000 and 17,000 miles is considered too many miles on "old" Mopar fluid? I would of thought it was plenty early enough.

I have a Superchips programmer that firms up the shifts at WOT,the stock computer retards timing between shifts.

Man I don`t want to do a complete flush! I am thinking of just using an oil extractor and refilling with Pennzoil+4 which has the highest viscosity,if I remember right it`s 7.8,to bring up my viscosity. Then doing a pan drop after 20,000 miles with Pennzoil+4 again with new filters. I`m just lazy,so if I do a complete flush I would take it to a shop with a machine and provide the fluid.

Thanks for all the feed back guys,keep it coming!

 

[unDummy]

More detail: unit has 86k, you have intervals of 10k and 17k. My maths not too good. What about the rest of the mileage details?

Try the Wix, Fram, or Pioneer filter kits. I find that you have to bounce around brands to find quality rubber or fiber gaskets. Also, I see no reason why the OEM filters can't be used much longer.

Either a full flush or more frequent partial changes would be good. Sorry, without complete details, a couple 1/2 changes with Amsoil over 86k doesn't seem to early to me.
My Nissans, Mazdas, Toyotas(all with drainplugs), get minimally 2 drain/refills a year with full synthetic ATF. Its only a partial change but I drive 12k a year now! I've also owned 2 ZF quipped vehicles that recieved drain/refills at EVERY oil change(usually 4-6 times a year). I drove a lot more back then(40k+) year. And, this ZF had a history of extremely high failure rates(I've never heard of one lasting more then 50k). A few years back I sold my last one with 300k on it. That alone says a lot for simple maintenance.

The 545 isn't a super transmission. It has its issues. If the fullflush is too pricey, then by all means buy that MityvacPelaAstroLiquivac-extractor and siphon away 7 quarts whenever you have $ a couple times a year with ATF+4 or Amsoil. But, I would stick with 1 fluid and I would leave battery disconnect overnight after each maintenance.

Aftermarket filter kits, shift kits, ATF coolers, deeper sumps, and maintenance intervals, need to be considerd for extremely long AT life. Pick what is affordable and convenient.

 

[jeremiah2360]

Sorry unDummy, thought it was TeeDub again. I had just woke up and was running late to work and wasn`t paying attention

After the two drains refilling with Amsoil at 10,000 and 17,000 miles(and replacing the two filters at the 17,000 drain) I just ran the fluid until now,70,000 uninterrupted miles.

I already have the Mityvac,so it would be a lot cheaper to do maybe two quick refills and then do 10,000 mile intervals. Still haven`t quite decided,just kind of thinking out loud here. Mopar fluid is reasonably priced and is designed for this trans but the Pennzoil would bring my viscosity up and at least have the right friction modifiers(IMO).From what I`ve read,it might of been you unDummy,trans filters aren`t critical and can be run a lot longer than you would think.

These transmissions have had issues. The ones I know of are a bad drain back valve on the torque converter. You would have to wait for it to pump up after it sat a while before it would move. An issue for sure,but more of a drive-ability problem,not a mechanically fatal one.

The other one had something to do with a module or something internal coming apart which could hurt the trans.

These were year or production run specific problems and not wide spread as far as I know. Knock on wood they hold up pretty good compared to some of the earlier Dodge transmissions.

 

[Pablo]

THAT is a long run for this application.

Also this:

Quote:

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I have a Superchips programmer that firms up the shifts at WOT

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is significant.

Given all your details, looks like the fluid did fine. Maybe go 30K-50K max next time.

THANKS FOR POSTING! VERY COOL.

 

[unDummy]

Thanks, broke out the LED 9v calculator and everything now makes sense. You did a couple early change outs with Amsoil and ran it a full 70k. Now that the fog has cleared out of my ears, this run looks excellent. For some unknown reason, I thought that this run had 17k on it with a previous rinse of 10k before the run. Forget about the previous wear comments! I see no reason to abandon Amsoil here.

Filtration is definitely critical. But, your transmission is one of the few with a REAL OEM filter. And with 70k on it, its still working well(ISO#). Typical ATF aftermarket PH8a filter kits are simple maintained for the sake of maintenance. If a canister ATF filter ever clogged, its too late. There is no sign of that happening with your UOA.
Definitely cut open those 70k old filters for inspection.

Concerning the visc, 6.2 doesn't look bad anymore. Thats about ~12 percent drop over 70k miles. Figuring in the towing, traffic, leadfoot......you really can't complain.

Drop the pan, change out the filters, and definitely keep using the Amsoil. And, I see no reason why you couldn't just flush it and go another 70k. If you plan on just doing some siphon/refills, simply pick a shorter interval.

 

[jeremiah2360]

Well I decided what I`m going to do. I just came back from two Walmarts with 15 quarts of Mopar +4.The two replacement filters are on order from bulkpart.com(one standard filter type and a tiny return line spin-on). I am going to drop the pan,which will be easier now that I can use the Mitivac to get the fluid out first. After cleaning the pan,magnet(which I forgot about),and sealing surfaces I`ll use Permatex`s "Right Stuff"again to seal it up. I will then refill and drive about 15 minutes and refill again using just the Mitivac. Then every spring I`ll do a Mitivac refill which should be every 12 to 15 thousand miles. This should keep me going for a while without worrying about cooking my trans.

I`ll re sample depending on how many miles I am racking up to see how it`s doing.

 

[Steve S]

Do a flush , instead of diluting the new oil by 50% more or less.

 

[Steve S]

Put the filter before the cooler.

 

[LargeCarManX2]

Quote:

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Considering you went over the Amsoil recommended severe service of 50,000 miles by 40%, I'd say your wear numbers look pretty good. Copper is considered normal in ATs at 5-250 ppm, so I wouldn't worry about it. I'd drop the pan and change the AMSOIL and filter every 50,000 miles to maintain their warranty. Amsoil has improved their ATF since 2003.

---

I believe that the ATF in these newer Mopar products are a 100K fill OEM OCI. If that's true, Amsoil should go the full 100K as per what there OCI spec states!

Personally, I like the 20 to 25K drain and fill with a high quality synthetic ATF.

 

[Pablo]

But it's not stock. Read above.

 

[LargeCarManX2]

Quote: I have a Superchips programmer that firms up the shifts at WOT,the stock computer retards timing between shifts.

Your Right Pablo....

I still would think a firmer shift is better for the transmission life?

 

[txtruck]

the weak link is the second prime on the 545rfe. the plate over the valve srings in the VB have also been known to break under stock pressure. sc doesnt do anyhting with the pressure though. get the shift kit as it has a thicker plate covering the springs and valves on the VB and wont bend and break. stock mopar atf-4 is suppposed to be VERY good. id run some auto rx through it. im at a couple thousand on my autorx treatment on my 03 hemi and will be dropping the pan soon. i plan on using the stock mopar atf 4 also as i cant justify twice the cost for service that has to be done once a year for how much i drive. id use the pump in the trans to pump out the old fluid and re fill. i hate handing over money when i can do it myself...

firm shifts mean less time in the clutches. it just what you use to make them firmer that counts. there is also a few hemi only shops that do specific trans mods for this as well...

hope it helps

 

[txtruck]

oh and where you low on fluid when it was smokin? ive seen this before but smoking is NOT normal. somethins burning.mayb the tc is goin bad...hopefully not but somethng is not right if your getting smoke....