Amsoil SS 5w30
- Thread starter bfleeman
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Yes it is
MolaKule
Staff member
Low ppm levels of iron and aluminum in a VOA indicate metal inhibitor chemistry.
I’m assuming this is a good thing? I was scratching my head on the aluminum ppm thinking something went wrong during production or something.
Yes, can you clarify? Haven’t heard that before but sounds interesting in terms of a benefit most likely.
Strictly from my informal observation, I wonder: Do the effects of the inhibitor chemistry carry through to UOA levels?
MolaKule
Staff member
This is why I have been repeating for a long time that one needs a good VOA of the oil that went into the engine for the subsequent UOA, or the UOA means little.
If there is 2 ppm of aluminum in the VOA and if there is 10 ppm of aluminum in the UOA, then obviously engine operation has contributed 8 ppm of aluminum during the OCI.
My last post was rather vague. What is metal inhibitor chemistry?
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Certainly. I was wondering more about whether the inhibitor chemistry would contribute to a reduction in what I have previously seen referred to as ‘corrosive’ wear. I don’t think that’s the right way to put it, but that’s what used to be said sometimes on the forum here.
IOW, is the effect of inhibitor chemistry to reduce the _net_ aluminum (or copper, etc) number in a UOA by virtue of reduced oxide stripping or corrosion, without reducing the actual _wear_ in the engine?
To phrase it more simply: Does inhibitor chemistry make a UOA look ‘better,’ even on a net basis (after subtracting VOA levels), than the otherwise-same chemistry without the inhibitor?
My thought was that it likely does, but I’m uncertain.
Thanks for that, appreciate the insight into what may be going on with respect to inhibitor chemistry and why a manufacturer would use it.
Why in the world they are using test method D4739 to determine TBN in virgin oil?
According to ASTM the test method D2896 should be used for fresh oil and D4739 test method should be used for oil in service or used oil.
Every VOA I've seen on Russian Oil Club uses D2896 method to determine TBN.
Amsoil SS 5W-30 tested in July/2020 had TBN ASTM D2896 @12.46
According to ASTM the test method D2896 should be used for fresh oil and D4739 test method should be used for oil in service or used oil.
Every VOA I've seen on Russian Oil Club uses D2896 method to determine TBN.
Amsoil SS 5W-30 tested in July/2020 had TBN ASTM D2896 @12.46
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Anymore I personally don't have confidence in any UOA or VOA since there's so much that's not done right with the tests.
MolaKule
Staff member
Corrosion is a chemical or electrochemical reaction between a material, usually a metal, and its environment, which produces a deterioration of the material and its properties.
A metal and corrosion inhibitor is a substance that forms a protective barrier and creates a mechanical separation between the metal and environment. This barrier cannot be easily removed and prevents transport of aggressive agents from contact with the surface, as well as corrosion products from leaving the surface.
Metal inhibitors also prevent the catalyzation of metals with other chemicals from forming oxidation products. (Catalyzation refers to the chemistry reaction, that causes acceleration of a chemical change by the addition of a catalyst. Because catalysts are not consumed in the catalyzed reaction, they can continue to catalyze the reaction of further quantities of reactant).
Common metal and corrosion inhibitor chemistries in current DI (additive) packages include: methylene bis (dibutyldithiocarbamate)'s, tolutriazole derivatives, dithiobis(1,3,4- thiadiazoles, neutral zinc dinonylnaphthalene sulfonates, dihydro-1H-imidazoles, dodecenylsuccinic acids, etc.
or most likley back ground / lab error/ sampling error / trace crap in addtives addtive or from base oil and or delivery hose dragged across parking lot.
IMHO <10 PPM of about anything is not important.
IMHO <10 PPM of about anything is not important.
MolaKule
Staff member
Not likely as this is a VOA. There is a host of chemicals in the DI package that will not show up on low cost analysis.
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we agree to dis agree, I guess filling equipment, pumps, dirty filters and piping etc cannot add any wear metals to the filing line both addtive aswell as finished lube.
I do not diagree with a VOA for reference in fact is about best way to do trend analysis to track useful lube oil life. Without a baseline a UOA is about worthless.
I do not diagree with a VOA for reference in fact is about best way to do trend analysis to track useful lube oil life. Without a baseline a UOA is about worthless.
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