Amsoil Signature Fuel Efficient ATF?
- Thread starter ofelas
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I am guessing it is based solely on viscosity. ATF+4 is a high viscosity 7Cst fluid while the Fuel Efficient is LV, 5Cst or so. But on this subject, PetroCanada has their Duradrive line. Their high viscosity fluid is rated for ATF+3 (they have an approved ATF+4 product as well) and they just came out with the LV fluid. They say it is suitable for use for ATF+4 and Mobil 3309/Mopar ASRC fluid for the Aisin in Ram 3500's.
That's what makes me wonder as far as the viscosity goes - seems counter intuitive.
The fuel efficient formula is not recommended for an ATF+4 substitute below -38, despite the lower viscosity and lower flow point.
The regular Amsoil ATF is 7.5 or so, and the fuel efficient ATF is 6.5 or so.
The fuel efficient formula is not recommended for an ATF+4 substitute below -38, despite the lower viscosity and lower flow point.
The regular Amsoil ATF is 7.5 or so, and the fuel efficient ATF is 6.5 or so.
And on this viscosity subject, PC gives a nice little caveat with it:
Suitable for Use (SFU) = Determined to be suitable based on engineering judgement supported by test data such as
laboratory or field testing.
* DuraDrive MV Synthetic ATF is a high viscosity formulation and does not meet the viscosity profiles of these low viscosity
specifications. Field testing results have demonstrated proof of no harm but product will not provide the potential fuel
economy benefits of the low viscosity genuine oils.
Suitable for Use (SFU) = Determined to be suitable based on engineering judgement supported by test data such as
laboratory or field testing.
* DuraDrive MV Synthetic ATF is a high viscosity formulation and does not meet the viscosity profiles of these low viscosity
specifications. Field testing results have demonstrated proof of no harm but product will not provide the potential fuel
economy benefits of the low viscosity genuine oils.
The viscosity questions on this board really opened my eyes. I try to take it over to the Cummins forum as some still cant wrap their heads around it.
Chrysler is really strict and childish with their ATF+4 licensing. They won't simply license something that meets the standards. They make it much more complicated. Chrysler only allows a specific group III base stock--but even then, it has to come from one of three suppliers (SK, Shell, or Petro-Canada), along with a special Lubrizol add pack. Therefore, every licensed ATF+4 you see on Chrysler's official approved list is the same. That's right, even Walmart brand ATF+4 is the same as Mopar ATF+4 from the dealer.
However, the best ATF to use where ATF+4 is called for happens to be Redline C+. Chrysler is jealous and will not approve it even though it is better than the licensed ATF+4. The Redline C+ uses a group V ester base stock, but the same add pack as licensed ATF+4
However, the best ATF to use where ATF+4 is called for happens to be Redline C+. Chrysler is jealous and will not approve it even though it is better than the licensed ATF+4. The Redline C+ uses a group V ester base stock, but the same add pack as licensed ATF+4
I just about used up the last of my ATF stock. I was using Co-op ATF SL multi vehicle. Locally made, group 4 based. it is suitable for use with ATF+4. I had done a complete fluid exchanged on my old Ram 1500 and then placed several thousand km towing on it. Worked like a charm.
MolaKule
Staff member
It is not so much the viscosity as it is the dynamic friction coefficient which is much different in ATF+4 than in the Dex/Merc series.
Understood - so the fuel efficient Amsoil is more like Dex/Merc than the slipperier ATF+4
My tweaked 47RH transmission was spec'd For ATF+3, but there's nothing "factory" about the converter clutches, bands, frictions and steels.
My question was more geared towards the raised stall speed that would occur with the fuel efficient Amsoil ATF being thinner - in this application, the raised stall speed would be beneficial to me. I've been known to use a 50-50 mix of JD Hygard & ATF to lower stall speed some at times
I do realize Dex/Merc is a "grabbier" fluid than ATF+4, and I'm reasonably certain the aftermarket clutches don't particularly care, as my shift firmness and converter clutch holding is determined mainly by my custom valve body.
If the fuel efficient Amsoil ATF acts like a Dex/Merc that is more shear resistant, it should work well for me.
I'm mainly curious as to why this fuel efficient formula isn't recommended by Amsoil below -38 in an ATF+4 application.
My tweaked 47RH transmission was spec'd For ATF+3, but there's nothing "factory" about the converter clutches, bands, frictions and steels.
My question was more geared towards the raised stall speed that would occur with the fuel efficient Amsoil ATF being thinner - in this application, the raised stall speed would be beneficial to me. I've been known to use a 50-50 mix of JD Hygard & ATF to lower stall speed some at times
I do realize Dex/Merc is a "grabbier" fluid than ATF+4, and I'm reasonably certain the aftermarket clutches don't particularly care, as my shift firmness and converter clutch holding is determined mainly by my custom valve body.
If the fuel efficient Amsoil ATF acts like a Dex/Merc that is more shear resistant, it should work well for me.
I'm mainly curious as to why this fuel efficient formula isn't recommended by Amsoil below -38 in an ATF+4 application.
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Question: What is so different within the FCA transmissions that so-called requires this special ATF with this dynamic friction coefficient compared to other ATFs?
Special design torque converter or clutch plates?
FCA has a very had time building a solid dependable transmission let alone feeling special enough to require a special ATF to be run in these same transmissions.
I have a new Ram with the 68RFE which next summer will be put under decent load once our new 5th wheel is purchased.
Unfortunately I have subjected myself to enough nightmareish stories about this transmission via the internet & through a handful of word of mouth camping Ram owners: Invest in a deep aluminum transmission pan with a drain plug, which will aid in cooler ATF temps & make for quick easy drain/refill service.
And most importantly drain the FF ATF & refill with Red Line C+.
I know now the 68RFE transmission is the weakest link within my new Rams drivetrain & now will be getting my upmost attention.
The reviews on the difference this fluid makes with the 68RFE is hard to ignore.
Special design torque converter or clutch plates?
FCA has a very had time building a solid dependable transmission let alone feeling special enough to require a special ATF to be run in these same transmissions.
I have a new Ram with the 68RFE which next summer will be put under decent load once our new 5th wheel is purchased.
Unfortunately I have subjected myself to enough nightmareish stories about this transmission via the internet & through a handful of word of mouth camping Ram owners: Invest in a deep aluminum transmission pan with a drain plug, which will aid in cooler ATF temps & make for quick easy drain/refill service.
And most importantly drain the FF ATF & refill with Red Line C+.
I know now the 68RFE transmission is the weakest link within my new Rams drivetrain & now will be getting my upmost attention.
The reviews on the difference this fluid makes with the 68RFE is hard to ignore.
If you want to keep within the ATF+4 spec as defined by Chrysler, I don't think one can do better than Redline C+ specs in an RE or RFE.
How much it would prolong the 68RFE's life as compared to regular maintenance using ATF+4 is debatable.
Use the genuine Mopar filter kits for service, and make sure the old spin on filter's plastic snout gets replaced with the new spout included with the new filter.
Don't over torque this; hand tight + 3/4 turn is plenty.
How much it would prolong the 68RFE's life as compared to regular maintenance using ATF+4 is debatable.
Use the genuine Mopar filter kits for service, and make sure the old spin on filter's plastic snout gets replaced with the new spout included with the new filter.
Don't over torque this; hand tight + 3/4 turn is plenty.
The ATF+4 specification is covered by their other ATF formula and not the Fuel Efficent formula because the ATF+4 is thicker viscosity.
I used this in my Dodge Journey.
I used this in my Dodge Journey.
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Originally Posted by ofelas
If you want to keep within the ATF+4 spec as defined by Chrysler, I don't think one can do better than Redline C+ specs in an RE or RFE.
How much it would prolong the 68RFE's life as compared to regular maintenance using ATF+4 is debatable.
That right there is the million dollar question & no one without an under inflated ego can even begin to answer it.
I feel it mostly depends on the abuse received & routine maintenance done.
If I only had plans on keeping this Ram for 4-5 years I wouldn't even change the fluid in the transmission.
But- Due to the fact I'm 54 and I had the intentions when I bought my Ram of keeping this Ram through my retirement, fluid choices right now are pretty important to Me.
Thanks ofelas for your input.
If you want to keep within the ATF+4 spec as defined by Chrysler, I don't think one can do better than Redline C+ specs in an RE or RFE.
How much it would prolong the 68RFE's life as compared to regular maintenance using ATF+4 is debatable.
That right there is the million dollar question & no one without an under inflated ego can even begin to answer it.
I feel it mostly depends on the abuse received & routine maintenance done.
If I only had plans on keeping this Ram for 4-5 years I wouldn't even change the fluid in the transmission.
But- Due to the fact I'm 54 and I had the intentions when I bought my Ram of keeping this Ram through my retirement, fluid choices right now are pretty important to Me.
Thanks ofelas for your input.
MolaKule
Staff member
if you are racing with a special TC then you might want to investigate this Type "F" fluid that is 4.5 cSt@100C.
https://www.redlineoil.com/Content/files/tech/LTWT_RACING_ATF_PROD_INFO.pdf
https://www.redlineoil.com/Content/files/tech/LTWT_RACING_ATF_PROD_INFO.pdf
Hey that's some nice info right there MolaKule !
On my street/play truck, all I need is another 150rpm or so higher stall, I think that 6.3 cst fluid will do the trick.
Redline products are priced outrageously in Canada, when one can even find them...
I'll file that away to pick up a couple cases when I'm Stateside next, the puller should love it.
On my street/play truck, all I need is another 150rpm or so higher stall, I think that 6.3 cst fluid will do the trick.
Redline products are priced outrageously in Canada, when one can even find them...
I'll file that away to pick up a couple cases when I'm Stateside next, the puller should love it.
Border guard: Do you have any firearms, alcohol, pyrotechnics or transmission fluid in your car?
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