Amsoil SAE 30

[Tommy]

I have just received my first analysis on Amsoil's SAE 30 in my Volvo 740 non-turbo. The oil that I had previously used was Amsoil 10W40 and I can say (without posting all the numbers) that the wear data (3 samples)was virtually identical to the numbers posted here. Oil consumption was up somewhat with the SAE 30, but only during extended periods of city driving. (?)

Amsoil SAE 30, 243,000 mi. on engine, 6200 mi. on oil, 2 qts. added in interval:

code:

---

Lead 2

Copper 2

Alum. 4

Silicon 37

Iron 11

Chromium 0.9

Zinc 1150

Magnesium 12

Calcium 2000+

Phos. 1000

Manganese 160

Visc. 100C 9.411

Solids 0.1%

Fuel Dil. NO

---

 

[TooSlick]

Tommy,

What brand of gasoline are you using? I'm curious about the manganese, which I believe is being used as an octane booster ....

 

[Tommy]

I am using Shell exclusively. The manganese has been present in all my samples and is the highest with this sample - it has been steadily rising with each successive sample from a low of 88 PPM. Is manganese harmful at all to the oil or engine?

 

[Bio-T]

If you are using fuel or a fuel additive that contains MMT then it is part of the blowby that doesn't evaporate at oil temps in the engine. MMT is used as an octane booster, and if memory serves me correctly, Canada was one of the Countries that was trying to ban the use of MMT as it also tends to affect emmissions. I read this on an emmission thread a couple years ago, so this is from memory.

 

[TooSlick]

Tommy,

Thanks for confirming something for me!

I switched to Shell gas about a year ago after the local Conoco station closed. My most recent oil analysis showed 70 ppm of Manganese, which I figured was coming from the 89 octane Shell fuel. Previous analyses showed 0 or 1 ppm of Mn with the Conoco fuel ....

The oil analysis results with the Shell fuel showed no effect on either wear rates or oil degradation. The oxidation/nitration and TBN values tracked very well with previous data on this engine.

 

[Patman]

Silicon is pretty high! Are you using chicken wire as an air filter?

Also, why is it so close to becoming a 20 weight? I thought straight 30w oil didn't thin out? Or does Amsoil SAE 30 start out this low to begin with? (which in itself is kinda scary)

[ October 03, 2002, 04:34 PM: Message edited by: Patman ]

 

[mormit]

Tommy,

Why are you using a straight weight 30? Just curious. It seems to be working well for you at that mileage with very good wear numbers.

I only ask because my '85 245DL (234,800mi)has the same engine and the owner's manual says 10w30.....Just switched to Schaeffer's.

 

[Dick in Falls Church]

Were one to test the AMSOIL SAE 30 oil for cold, it would test as a 15w30.

 

[mormit]

Yes, it is excellent oil but 15w30 is probably a bit thick for Canadian weather. Maybe summer, but not all season.

Amsoil 10w30 ATM would probably be the best choice for year-round use. PP -54degF, Borderline pumping temp -40degF.

 

[Tommy]

quote:

---

Silicon is pretty high! Are you using chicken wire as an air filter?
Also, why is it so close to becoming a 20 weight? I thought straight 30w oil didn't thin out? Or does Amsoil SAE 30 start out this low to begin with? (which in itself is kinda scary)

---

I am sending in a sample of new oil (same batch) to see where its viscosity is at. By the way, the silicon has always been high with this engine and wear has never been affected.

Amsoil's SAE 30 synthetic has very similar viscosity characteristics to a petroleum 10W30. It has a viscosity index of 124 and a pour point of -36F. I do plan to extend this drain through the winter to see how cold-weather operation will affect wear.

 

[Patman]

Where in Canada are you from Tommy? I know here in Toronto it rarely goes below 0F overnight, so that oil looks like it would be ok for these conditions. Especially if you park in the garage overnight anyways, so you may never even see a cold start in 0F weather.

 

[dragboat]

Tommy,out of the 243K miles,how many were with Amsoil? Is the motor leaking this oil or burning it at the rate of a quart every 3k? Just from what I read the rings are worn or stuck if not leaking. Has it ever been overheated like in a case where the water pump went out or a T-Stat was stuck?Is it pinging ? That will increase cylinder pressure and overwhelm the rings abiltity to seal properly
Looks like a candidate motor for Auto-RX or 131 Nuetra possibly or to be relegated back to dino oil for the remainder of it's life because of oil consumption and costs just initial thoughts without knowing more on the engines history and pining ect.

 

[Tommy]

Dragboat,

I have run Amsoil for about 30,000 miles now. The engine leaks no oil - it is dusty dry underneath! After the first run of 10W40, I cut open the filter - the amount of grunge that was in there was unreal! I am cutting open every filter (3000 mi. intervals) and am still finding that there is alot of cleaning going on. I once tried leaving the filter on for 6000 mi. and it was so heavily loaded that the pleats were being pushed over! I can only assume that this vehicle was not maintained well in the first half of its life. I did give Auto RX a go but I quite honestly did not see any difference in the rate of grunge removal. I have to say that despite the oil consumption rate, the engine seems to be very healthy - it is driven hard in an extremely mountainous area and delivers excellent fuel economy and performance. (400 mi./tank) This oil consumption rate, as I stated in my original post, is only this high when the vehicle sees extended periods of city driving. (a couple of times/year) In any case, it really does not worry me given that the engine runs so well. I might try replacing the valve seals when I get some time.

Patman,

I am in the West Kootenay region of British Columbia - the temp. in winter is normally between 0 and minus 15C.

 

[dragboat]

Tommy it looks as if you keep on doing what you have been eventually the synthetic will clean that motor ever so slowly,it might even soften those valve guide seals slowly if not worn out or cracked/broken in some way.
A switch to a HD Diesel oil might speed the cleaning process for you? It imo would be worth a try

This is why after coming here and learning more about synthetics I have chosen one for our new car, engine life starts clean,stays cleaner longer with a bunch of side benefits .I am officially converted now

But very much like a good blend with PAO such as Schaeffers Supreme

 

[TooSlick]

Tommy,

I'd run the 15w40, HD diesel and Marine oil in this older motor. It will give you better extreme temp performance than the 30wt as well as lower oil consumption and higher oil pressure. This stuff is highly detergent and will really clean up the motor.

The primary application for the straight 30wt is for use in stationary engines that operate in a narrow temp range, or for marine inboards. It is also good for older, two stroke Detroit Diesel engines, such as the 8V92TTA, that recommend a straight weight oil.

I've had good results with the 15w40 in older gas engines, instead of going all the way to the 20w-50 synthetic ....Your solids level is very low, so you can extend to a 16,000 km change interval, with a filter change @ 8,000 km.

The silicon level in your analysis is very high. Have you replaced any seals/gaskets since you got this vehicle?

TS

 

[Tommy]

Dragboat,

I do concur with you on the use of a HD Diesel oil in this vehicle - Amsoil SAE 30 is such an oil.

Too Slick,

I agree that AME 15W40 would also work well here. The reason I am doing this is that I have an interest in straight-weight oils and thought that I would just see how things played out with using one here. We all got away from using monograde oils way back when and I am just wondering whether a synthetic monograde changes anything with regards to conventional theory on this subject. This monograde synthetic (and others as well) behaves like a petroleum 10W30 - the use of a petroleum 10W30 in this application would not be questioned by anyone I am sure. As far as I can see, everything is going well with this experiment, the next test is to see how it performs in cold-weather operation.

Yes I agree that the silicon is higher than normal, but it has been at this same level for the last 50,000 KM on every sample. Again, I am not worried about it as wear has not been affected. I have searched for induction leaks and eliminated all other possibilities - if I really was sucking dirt, would I not see a rise of the silicon count in an extended drain? Silicon sealant has not been used on this engine since about 100,000 KM ago, and then it was only a dab at each corner of the valve-cover gasket. I did use a little teflon-paste sealant when I plumbed in my bypass filter 50,000 KM ago as well.

 

[TooSlick]

Tommy,

The last time I used this stuff was when I bought a 30 gallon drum of it back in 1980. We were running it in a small fleet of Mercedes cabover trucks as well as the owners 1979, Mercedes 300SD. I was pretty happy with the performance of the 30wt, but I haven't used it since the multigrade diesel oils were introduced. I do remember we were running 9000 mile change intervals in the 300SD, which was three times Mercedes recommendation at that time with an API, CC/CD oil.

I would suggest checking your injectors for leakage and spray pattern. If the viscosity measurement is accurate, it looks like you are getting some fuel dilution. As I recall, the baseline viscosity of "ACD" is approx 12.0 Cst @ 100C. If anything, it should be thickening slightly from all the crud you are loosening up.

 

[Tommy]

I did have a problem on the last three previous samples with fuel dilution and I have corrected it as far as I know - this sample shows NO for fuel-dilution. Again, I am sending in a sample of new oil to compare viscosity. The fuel economy and performance of this vehicle is really very good, which leads me to believe that the injectors must be in good condition.

 

[TooSlick]

Baseline viscosity on ACD is supposed to be 11.5 centistokes @ 100C. They are generally very close to published specs on the actual batch runs. I don't see any issues with the wear rates or with oil degradation, although if you did a TBN test, it would be useful. Fuel dilution is reported as negative if it is below a certain threshold, but I think you are still getting some. This may also be a factor in your oil consumption ....

The allowable limit on total solids is generally 0.5% from the labs I've talked to. Since you are at 0.1%, I'd expect oxidation/nitration to be well within acceptable limits.

 

[Tommy]

I agree with you on the viscosity and it could well be true that I have some fuel dilution. I wil know for sure when I see the new oil viscosity. Thanks TooSlick.