AMSOIL sabre
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Originally Posted By: Samf333
Hi I am really interested in saber and want to run it in a few different things and see that it wants to be run at 100:1, does this mean if my engine calls for 40:1 I can't run it or should I run it more lean? This is really confusing me
We've had this discussion a few times in the past. The ratio is not dictated by the engine. It is dictated by the oil. Some 2-cycle oils are more concentrated than others, and therefore should be diluted more. Such is the case with Amsoil's Sabre. I would use it at 100:1 ratio and not worry about it.
Hi I am really interested in saber and want to run it in a few different things and see that it wants to be run at 100:1, does this mean if my engine calls for 40:1 I can't run it or should I run it more lean? This is really confusing me
We've had this discussion a few times in the past. The ratio is not dictated by the engine. It is dictated by the oil. Some 2-cycle oils are more concentrated than others, and therefore should be diluted more. Such is the case with Amsoil's Sabre. I would use it at 100:1 ratio and not worry about it.
Originally Posted By: Samf333
Hi I am really interested in saber and want to run it in a few different things and see that it wants to be run at 100:1, does this mean if my engine calls for 40:1 I can't run it or should I run it more lean? This is really confusing me
It can be run "up to 100:1" so from 50 to 100:1, I've used at 100:1 without any issues, despite a lot of people saying that it will seize or wear out too soon or that it will carbon up or....., nothing of that happened so far, I'm not using it right now because I'm trying Opti-2, another 100:1 oil and this one says to use it at 100:1 not more. Saber Professional I guess because there is a Saber Outboard too but both are to be used as a single mix for everything, from 20:1 to 100:1. The deal is that is the oil the one that dictates the concentration and not the engine manufacturer, it is the oil company that mixes the additives in the carrier so they are the ones to know how much to concentrate the oil so it will lubricate well. If your equipment is under warranty follow the manufacturer recommendations so if anything happens they can't blame the oil and/or you for the problem. I hope this helps.
I forgot to add that they are thicker than the other oils so you need to mix them well before using them.
Hi I am really interested in saber and want to run it in a few different things and see that it wants to be run at 100:1, does this mean if my engine calls for 40:1 I can't run it or should I run it more lean? This is really confusing me
It can be run "up to 100:1" so from 50 to 100:1, I've used at 100:1 without any issues, despite a lot of people saying that it will seize or wear out too soon or that it will carbon up or....., nothing of that happened so far, I'm not using it right now because I'm trying Opti-2, another 100:1 oil and this one says to use it at 100:1 not more. Saber Professional I guess because there is a Saber Outboard too but both are to be used as a single mix for everything, from 20:1 to 100:1. The deal is that is the oil the one that dictates the concentration and not the engine manufacturer, it is the oil company that mixes the additives in the carrier so they are the ones to know how much to concentrate the oil so it will lubricate well. If your equipment is under warranty follow the manufacturer recommendations so if anything happens they can't blame the oil and/or you for the problem. I hope this helps.
I forgot to add that they are thicker than the other oils so you need to mix them well before using them.
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I wouldn't run 100:1 in any two stroke regardless of manufactures claim. I ran Amsoil at 50:1 and had good luck. I run my equipment at 32:1 to 40:1 and all my equipment lasts.
This is somewhat of a hot topic with many having strong opinions.
for my equipment I've found 40:1 works well.
I generally use g-oil which is jaso FD api TC.
not everyones equipment is the same from Racing engines to old antique chainsaws using common sense, and not overgeneralizing can go along way.
I like the G-oil because AFAIK it is very good with deposit control and extremely low smoke/odor. Even at 32:1
my string trimmer says anything from 32:1 to 40:1
and my leaf blower says 25:1 to 50:1 is acceptable.
I also wouldn't use rich and lean to describe mixing of 2cycle oil, but thats just me.
Technically speaking if you use more oil(richer?) the engine is going to run leaner(less gas).
It can be abit confusing.
for my equipment I've found 40:1 works well.
I generally use g-oil which is jaso FD api TC.
not everyones equipment is the same from Racing engines to old antique chainsaws using common sense, and not overgeneralizing can go along way.
I like the G-oil because AFAIK it is very good with deposit control and extremely low smoke/odor. Even at 32:1
my string trimmer says anything from 32:1 to 40:1
and my leaf blower says 25:1 to 50:1 is acceptable.
I also wouldn't use rich and lean to describe mixing of 2cycle oil, but thats just me.
Technically speaking if you use more oil(richer?) the engine is going to run leaner(less gas).
It can be abit confusing.
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I don't have any personal experience with this but have been thinking about getting Amsoil or Redline 2 cycle oils for my weed trimmer. I agree that 100:1 just sounds too lean. If your equipment is under warranty, I would use the ratio set by the manufacturer. I think that would be safer. I don't see how it would hurt to have too much oil but I can definitely see how it would hurt to have too little. Fouling plugs or having excessive carbon would be smaller problems than having the engine blow due to lack of lubrication.
I always halve the ratio with Saber. If it's 50:1, I run 100:1. 32:1=64:1 and so on. I'm most likely going to just mix my Saber at 64:1 from now as I just bought equipment that runs at 32:1 that will be used a lot.
Basically, you need to find what mix works for your equipment.
Basically, you need to find what mix works for your equipment.
Here is another consideration. All OPE engines run a fair bit leaner now than they did just a few years ago. If your fuel/air ratio is lean, then your oil/air ratio is lean as well. I would love to trust Sabre at 100:1, but how much actual safety margin do you have at 100:1 oil/gas mix with a lean running carb? I tend to stick to what the OEM recommends just to play it safe, but that's me.
I run sabre mixed at like 90:1 to 100:1 for a few years. It is used in the old chainsaw and brushcutter (speced at 50:1) for just about 50 liters of gas and in a 30 hp evinrude/yamaha (speced at 100:1) that has gone through like 150 liters of gas with sabre outboard.
No smoke, easy start and steady idling. No bad effects this far but this little use may not really tell much yet.
I have never run any 2 stroke w more oil than 50:1 ever and had no seizings or anything. But if you worry, then run at like 80:1, will still be less oil and smoke and should be very safe unless you run hi perf carts or bikes.
No smoke, easy start and steady idling. No bad effects this far but this little use may not really tell much yet.
I have never run any 2 stroke w more oil than 50:1 ever and had no seizings or anything. But if you worry, then run at like 80:1, will still be less oil and smoke and should be very safe unless you run hi perf carts or bikes.
Originally Posted By: punisher
Here is another consideration. All OPE engines run a fair bit leaner now than they did just a few years ago. If your fuel/air ratio is lean, then your oil/air ratio is lean as well. I would love to trust Sabre at 100:1, but how much actual safety margin do you have at 100:1 oil/gas mix with a lean running carb? I tend to stick to what the OEM recommends just to play it safe, but that's me.
I didn't get the oil to air ratio sorry Can you elaborate a little more?, but if you mean lean fuel/air ratio think about this, the fuel going into the engine is a mix of gas and oil which in turn meet with the air in it's route to the crankcase, if you reduce the amount of oil the engine is ingesting more gas than before with the same flow of mix, so the original "lean" mixture is no longer so lean, but... also depending on the oils compared,it is most likely that the gas mixture will probably end up less viscous with the 100:1 mix than a say 50:1 then more gas will pass through the jets so not only the mixture is richer in gas but will also flow more of the mix making the ratio even richer. I hope I was able to explain it well enough, my apologies if I didn't.
Here is another consideration. All OPE engines run a fair bit leaner now than they did just a few years ago. If your fuel/air ratio is lean, then your oil/air ratio is lean as well. I would love to trust Sabre at 100:1, but how much actual safety margin do you have at 100:1 oil/gas mix with a lean running carb? I tend to stick to what the OEM recommends just to play it safe, but that's me.
I didn't get the oil to air ratio sorry Can you elaborate a little more?, but if you mean lean fuel/air ratio think about this, the fuel going into the engine is a mix of gas and oil which in turn meet with the air in it's route to the crankcase, if you reduce the amount of oil the engine is ingesting more gas than before with the same flow of mix, so the original "lean" mixture is no longer so lean, but... also depending on the oils compared,it is most likely that the gas mixture will probably end up less viscous with the 100:1 mix than a say 50:1 then more gas will pass through the jets so not only the mixture is richer in gas but will also flow more of the mix making the ratio even richer. I hope I was able to explain it well enough, my apologies if I didn't.
I'm a little late to this game... but I am an Opti2 user....
The mower shop across the street from me told me Opti was the way to go... for the new Kawasaki trimmer I just bought new there.. and it'd be good for my other 2-strokes also. I didn't even look at the ratio... just followed the 2.5 gal per pouch recommendation.
It doesn't smoke, and the engines I switched off of conventional run stronger and smooth.
I've read many many discussions on Opti2 and most people say it's good stuff. It is pretty darn thick... almost like a gel. So 100:1 is likely fine.. I guess we'd need to break down the ppm of oil vs. gas when it's all mixed up.
I'm cool with the Opti2, and I just bought another pouch for this summer.
The mower shop across the street from me told me Opti was the way to go... for the new Kawasaki trimmer I just bought new there.. and it'd be good for my other 2-strokes also. I didn't even look at the ratio... just followed the 2.5 gal per pouch recommendation.
It doesn't smoke, and the engines I switched off of conventional run stronger and smooth.
I've read many many discussions on Opti2 and most people say it's good stuff. It is pretty darn thick... almost like a gel. So 100:1 is likely fine.. I guess we'd need to break down the ppm of oil vs. gas when it's all mixed up.
I'm cool with the Opti2, and I just bought another pouch for this summer.
Here is a look at the inside of the muffler on a new Lawn Boy D-400 after approximately 15 hr. of run time. The only Fuel/oil mix used from the very first start was 87 octane (10% ethanol) mixed with Amsoil Sabre at 40:1. You can draw your own conclusions on whether 40:1 is a good ratio for Sabre.
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Originally Posted By: Mike72
Here is a look at the inside of the muffler on a new Lawn Boy D-400 after approximately 15 hr. of run time. The only Fuel/oil mix used from the very first start was 87 octane (10% ethanol) mixed with Amsoil Sabre at 40:1. You can draw your own conclusions on whether 40:1 is a good ratio for Sabre.
looks bad but I'm wondering if it would have been better at say 80 to 1?
Here is a look at the inside of the muffler on a new Lawn Boy D-400 after approximately 15 hr. of run time. The only Fuel/oil mix used from the very first start was 87 octane (10% ethanol) mixed with Amsoil Sabre at 40:1. You can draw your own conclusions on whether 40:1 is a good ratio for Sabre.
looks bad but I'm wondering if it would have been better at say 80 to 1?
Originally Posted By: Mike72
Here is a look at the inside of the muffler on a new Lawn Boy D-400 after approximately 15 hr. of run time. The only Fuel/oil mix used from the very first start was 87 octane (10% ethanol) mixed with Amsoil Sabre at 40:1. You can draw your own conclusions on whether 40:1 is a good ratio for Sabre.
Not too bad looking, on my duraforce running lawnboy oil at 32:1 it looks like that, but with about another 1/2inch of black tarry goo more than I'm seeing there. Been cleaning that out before every season.
That said, less oil may cause less buildup, but at the end of the day, combustion will make carbon no matter what we do.
Here is a look at the inside of the muffler on a new Lawn Boy D-400 after approximately 15 hr. of run time. The only Fuel/oil mix used from the very first start was 87 octane (10% ethanol) mixed with Amsoil Sabre at 40:1. You can draw your own conclusions on whether 40:1 is a good ratio for Sabre.
Not too bad looking, on my duraforce running lawnboy oil at 32:1 it looks like that, but with about another 1/2inch of black tarry goo more than I'm seeing there. Been cleaning that out before every season.
That said, less oil may cause less buildup, but at the end of the day, combustion will make carbon no matter what we do.
Last time I checked it was actually the other way around, combustion engines are about -burning- carbon, making carbon dioxide and mechanical work.
Those pics are about failed combustion of 2T oil, but that's not our ambition.
Originally Posted By: SOHCman
That said, less oil may cause less buildup, but at the end of the day, combustion will make carbon no matter what we do.
Those pics are about failed combustion of 2T oil, but that's not our ambition.
Originally Posted By: SOHCman
That said, less oil may cause less buildup, but at the end of the day, combustion will make carbon no matter what we do.
With the amount of unburnt oil in the Amsoil sample, I feel much better going with the leaner 80:1 mix on 93 octane they recommend on my Duraforce rather than the 64:1 mix I'm almost out of. I guess I'm going to be adding the R-Tek pilot jet, rebuild my carb and clean the exhaust port and tube and see what running 5 gallons through will net me.
While I enjoy this look into the aftermath of these oils, the comparison isn't entirely fair here. The 2T oil is a 50:1 oil mixed at 40:1 and the Amsoil is an 80-100:1 oil mixed at 40:1. There is a .6oz/gal overage of oil on the 2T and there is a 1.6-1.9oz/gal overage on Amsoil.
While I enjoy this look into the aftermath of these oils, the comparison isn't entirely fair here. The 2T oil is a 50:1 oil mixed at 40:1 and the Amsoil is an 80-100:1 oil mixed at 40:1. There is a .6oz/gal overage of oil on the 2T and there is a 1.6-1.9oz/gal overage on Amsoil.
Originally Posted By: PhilsSmallEngine
With the amount of unburnt oil in the Amsoil sample, I feel much better going with the leaner 80:1 mix on 93 octane they recommend on my Duraforce rather than the 64:1 mix I'm almost out of. I guess I'm going to be adding the R-Tek pilot jet, rebuild my carb and clean the exhaust port and tube and see what running 5 gallons through will net me.
While I enjoy this look into the aftermath of these oils, the comparison isn't entirely fair here. The 2T oil is a 50:1 oil mixed at 40:1 and the Amsoil is an 80-100:1 oil mixed at 40:1. There is a .6oz/gal overage of oil on the 2T and there is a 1.6-1.9oz/gal overage on Amsoil.
These were two experiments. I've read many claims from people saying they run Amsoil at 50:1, 40:1, and even 32:1, I wanted to see what the results of that would be. I also wanted to see the results of using Legend ZX-2SR at 40:1
With the amount of unburnt oil in the Amsoil sample, I feel much better going with the leaner 80:1 mix on 93 octane they recommend on my Duraforce rather than the 64:1 mix I'm almost out of. I guess I'm going to be adding the R-Tek pilot jet, rebuild my carb and clean the exhaust port and tube and see what running 5 gallons through will net me.
While I enjoy this look into the aftermath of these oils, the comparison isn't entirely fair here. The 2T oil is a 50:1 oil mixed at 40:1 and the Amsoil is an 80-100:1 oil mixed at 40:1. There is a .6oz/gal overage of oil on the 2T and there is a 1.6-1.9oz/gal overage on Amsoil.
These were two experiments. I've read many claims from people saying they run Amsoil at 50:1, 40:1, and even 32:1, I wanted to see what the results of that would be. I also wanted to see the results of using Legend ZX-2SR at 40:1
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