Amsoil filter caused engine destruction ?

[deeter16317]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted By: deeter16317
...we lost the engine in our 09 Forester, and I was running a PureOne and Rotella 5w40 Synthetic.
... ....
Again, I am the only guy with new Toyota and Subaru engines self destructing around here!

At least I didn't blame the oil or filter...

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: roushstage2
demarpaint, out of sheer curiosity, have you taken any business law classes? If so, I can't imagine you having done well at all in them; although, judging by other responses in this thread, you are not alone...



I did in the late 70's, did quite well in fact. A good lawyer and the proper evidence Amsoil could come out on the short end of the stick. I'd have to see all the evidence first though. You have to take Internet stories with a grain of salt.

BTW- Ever hear of the dream team? Look what they accomplished! Judging from your comments I see you probably didn't take any law classes.

 

[jerre310]

I agree on believing internet stories. Next, with Toyota's history on sludge engines why would you even consider buying one. Their reputation is very questionable lately.

 

[labman]

It seems there are several active threads dealing with major failures. The one thing they have in common is a lack of details. Plenty of jumping to conclusions and rash decisions. I find it interesting Amsoil has very different recommendations for using their products in a brand of engine that scores well in reliability studies. Can you imagine the bashing if ti was GM?

 

[widman]

I don't see anyone addressing why the filter supposedly clogged. The theoretical root cause.

What are the rest of the conditions of the engine? If there was sludge that clogged the filter, the relieve valve should have opened, and if not enough, the light should have gone on way before any metal parts could be found it it.

If it is a recent car, take a look at the black box and see what speeds it was traveling.

Way too many things not known to even guess at responsibility.

 

[SuperBusa]

Originally Posted By: hate2work
Originally Posted By: Pablo
There are just not enough facts in this to comment, or proclaim a loser. Where is the original writer? What board?


This link will take you to the first page of the thread, it was on the Tacoma World Forums board. The poster's username is "B brand", and is a new member. The discussion was about "The best motor oil", and he comments towards the end of the thread about his experience with Amsoil.

The rig in question is an 07 Tacoma that he says he bought brand new.

http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/2nd-gen-tacomas/58460-best-motor-oil.html


I don't think the Tacoma engines have any kind of sludging problem. The poster on the board link above did not say if it was the V6 or 4 cylinder engine. I have a 2005 Tacoma V6 with 23K miles on it, and when I look down the oil filter neck on the valve cover the guts of the engine look like brand new ... ZERO signs of sludge or even a hint of varnish build-up.

Also, I haven't read the Amsoil bulletin about the Eo057 filter, so was it applicable to ALL Toyotas or just certain models known to created excess sludge?

After finding out this was a 07 Tacoma, I doubt very much that the filter clogged from sludge. Something else happened to this engine to cause an oiling problem IMO.

 

[deeter16317]

Originally Posted By: widman
I don't see anyone addressing why the filter supposedly clogged. The theoretical root cause.

What are the rest of the conditions of the engine? If there was sludge that clogged the filter, the relieve valve should have opened, and if not enough, the light should have gone on way before any metal parts could be found it it.

If it is a recent car, take a look at the black box and see what speeds it was traveling.

Way too many things not known to even guess at responsibility.





That's what I was getting at...the engine failed, period. It had nothing to do with the oil or filter.

And think of the chain of events...the engine is self-destructing, and that in turn caused a batch of particles in the engine to be released, plugging the filter. As you can see, it *could* have nothing to do with oil or maintenance.

Toyota just used it as an excuse to question the the warranty.

 

[roushstage2]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: roushstage2
demarpaint, out of sheer curiosity, have you taken any business law classes? If so, I can't imagine you having done well at all in them; although, judging by other responses in this thread, you are not alone...



I did in the late 70's, did quite well in fact. A good lawyer and the proper evidence Amsoil could come out on the short end of the stick. I'd have to see all the evidence first though. You have to take Internet stories with a grain of salt.

BTW- Ever hear of the dream team? Look what they accomplished! Judging from your comments I see you probably didn't take any law classes.
My comments? I've asked one question, lol. I'm curious to see all of my "comments" in this thread I have taken business law, very recently, and did quite well myself.

A quick reason I asked, for a simple example, is this comment of yours,
Quote:
"Not his fault if Amsoil didn't notify every customer that bought the filter in question. Notification would have to be a lot more than visiting their site, or getting the magazine they send out. They would literally have to mail each customer a letter via registered mail informing them the filters were bad"

How do you suppose they would do that? For a quick, simple example again, what about customers who buy them in parts stores? The parts stores would have to keep records of what every single person ever bought there, along with all of their contact information, and then pass all of that along to Amsoil, who in turn would then have to mail it all out. Going to happen? No. Would a court say that is a reasonable course of action? No. Having taken a business law class, you should then know that is unreasonable and shouldn't hold up whatsoever. Based on law class, simply put, if they make a legitimate and decent attempt to let as many people as possible about it that would possibly buy and use it, they have legally made a fair attempt to warn people. As far as I know, car manufacturers do not mail TSB's to every single person in the world that owns that particular car that there is a fix available for their car. So, you can take them to court over it? Sure. Will you win? Don't count on it. Take a look at Ford and the cruise control fix in the F150's.

 

[demarpaint]

And if he bought it from Amsoil and not a store then what? Odds of buying it from a parts store are pretty slim. I live on Long Island and don't know of many parts stores that carry Amsoil. In fact I don't think there is a parts store within 20 miles of me that carries it. Then if he bought it from a parts store after the issue there should have been the TSB inside the box. Does Amsoil put the TSB's in boxes? That is a question I'm asking by the way, looking for an answer.

A good law student knows a good lawyer can really work magic. Here we have fragments of a story at best. Again remember the Dream Team?

I see you use Amsoil, so do I, that doesn't change anything for me.

 

[SuperBusa]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
And if he bought it from Amsoil and not a store then what?


Amsoil is not sold in your everyday "parts store" ... it is sold by independent dealers.

 

[demarpaint]

I know that, if you read above I was referring to this statement.

Originally Posted By: roushstage2
For a quick, simple example again, what about customers who buy them in parts stores? The parts stores would have to keep records of what every single person ever bought there, along with all of their contact information, and then pass all of that along to Amsoil, who in turn would then have to mail it all out. Going to happen?

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: hate2work
Originally Posted By: Pablo
There are just not enough facts in this to comment, or proclaim a loser. Where is the original writer? What board?


This link will take you to the first page of the thread, it was on the Tacoma World Forums board. The poster's username is "B brand", and is a new member. The discussion was about "The best motor oil", and he comments towards the end of the thread about his experience with Amsoil.

The rig in question is an 07 Tacoma that he says he bought brand new.

http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/2nd-gen-tacomas/58460-best-motor-oil.html


THANKS for the link. There is a LOT of misinformation in that thread. Not sure why you didn't guide him in the correct direction (?) Amsoil will help customers. Let's face it, the guy did not file a claim with Amsoil.

 

[hate2work]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
THANKS for the link. There is a LOT of misinformation in that thread. Not sure why you didn't guide him in the correct direction (?) Amsoil will help customers. Let's face it, the guy did not file a claim with Amsoil.


I sent him a PM this morning, if he responds I will help him of course. That might include giving him your contact info, as he obviously got zero help from his Amsoil rep.

 

[roushstage2]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
And if he bought it from Amsoil and not a store then what? Odds of buying it from a parts store are pretty slim. I live on Long Island and don't know of many parts stores that carry Amsoil. In fact I don't think there is a parts store within 20 miles of me that carries it. Then if he bought it from a parts store after the issue there should have been the TSB inside the box. Does Amsoil put the TSB's in boxes? That is a question I'm asking by the way, looking for an answer.

A good law student knows a good lawyer can really work magic. Here we have fragments of a story at best. Again remember the Dream Team?

I see you use Amsoil, so do I, that doesn't change anything for me.
If he bought it from Amsoil, then Amsoil would have to keep track of the exact vehicle that exact person bought it for, and then gather all of that information and send out the TSB. It's something that can't realistically be done is all. Your missing my point I think. The information is publicly available from the source. The consumer bears responsibility as well for knowing about the stuff that they buy. The manufacturer has made the information public.

As for me, there are 3 parts stores I know off of the top of my head nearby that sell Amsoil products. That doesn't mean there aren't more that I don't know about either.

 

[SuperBusa]

Amsoil or any other manufacture for that matter should never expect any customer to continually check their website every time they use their product to see if there is a problem, TSB or recall on said product.

If Amsoil had this act together, they would inform ANYONE who attempts to purchase a Eo57 oil filter be told about the Toyota TSB they have on it. You just can't walk into a Walmart and buy an Amsoil filter ... you have to order it from Amsoil or buy it from an independent Amsoil dealer.

Next time you use a FRAM, Purolator, WIX, Mobil 1, Bosch, etc, etc oil filter you better do a bunch of homework and checking on their websites to confirm it's OK to use ...

If this guy had purchased the Eo57 filter BEFORE Amsoil decided there was an issue with it on Toyotas, then it's a gray area IMO.

 

[badnews]

When an ammo company puts out a bad batch of ammo

they publish in gun magazines - recall alert

Amsoil could have published a recall alert in 4x4 magazines
car magazines - sent out notices to dealers stuff like that

but that has a negative impact on their rep and costs money and from what I have seen with Amsoil they are about the profit margin, of course that is just my point of view from what I have read .

YMMV

 

[AuthorEditor]

Folks are getting awfully worked up about not just a second-hand story about an Amsoil filter, but a link to another Web site where someone said something. There is nothing here to go on. What do we know? A Tacoma engine blew up and he was using an Amsoil filter at the time. There are a million reasons, other than the filter, why something like that could happen. From what I read on here, and my limited personal experience, Amsoil makes great products that people seem to like. I don't think anybody can criticize the company for something they really know nothing about. But, go ahead, if that makes your day. I'd rather participate in some threads where there is some first-hand experience or knowledge of a product.

 

[ewetho]

I have never said anything other that in PMs to a few on here but the 08+ Suzuki XL-7 filter caused a couple of documented engine grenades when the bypass valve silicone seal came apart. Suzuki (actually GM, their caddy motor with a can filter instead of cartridge) actually purchased a filter and dissected and matched part number from fragments found in the journals. Yup NO Warranty.

There was a TSB issued to not use their filter in that motor. You could use a cheap Purolator with no difficulty but not the High Dollar Amsoil. Something is fishy if you ask me. I have not used them since.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: roushstage2
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
And if he bought it from Amsoil and not a store then what? Odds of buying it from a parts store are pretty slim. I live on Long Island and don't know of many parts stores that carry Amsoil. In fact I don't think there is a parts store within 20 miles of me that carries it. Then if he bought it from a parts store after the issue there should have been the TSB inside the box. Does Amsoil put the TSB's in boxes? That is a question I'm asking by the way, looking for an answer.

A good law student knows a good lawyer can really work magic. Here we have fragments of a story at best. Again remember the Dream Team?

I see you use Amsoil, so do I, that doesn't change anything for me.
If he bought it from Amsoil, then Amsoil would have to keep track of the exact vehicle that exact person bought it for, and then gather all of that information and send out the TSB. It's something that can't realistically be done is all. Your missing my point I think. The information is publicly available from the source. The consumer bears responsibility as well for knowing about the stuff that they buy. The manufacturer has made the information public.

As for me, there are 3 parts stores I know off of the top of my head nearby that sell Amsoil products. That doesn't mean there aren't more that I don't know about either.


There are no parts stores anywhere near where I live that I am aware of that sell Amsoil. Maybe 3000 miles away it's another story. I saw Amsoil in two stores within 2 miles of each other in WA. None here. For the most part Amsoil is sold through dealers, and it is shipped to the buyers. Would it be safe to say that a large portion of their business is done that way, and not through retail stores?

I understand where you are coming from, but Amsoil has to be at fault here, at least to some degree. Otherwise I guess each time we put a part in our car, oil, a filter, spark plugs, etc we better check to see if there are any TSB on them. Because if the part should fail it would be our fault. Even though we didn't make the part, just the fact that we bought it we'd be to blame.

Question, does Amsoil put a TSB inside the box of a filter like the guy who huffed the Toyota engine used? My guess is the filter fits a few applications, a TSB stating if this filter is used in application xxxx please note. Then state the caution, user notes etc. That would be easy enough. Do they at least do that?

 

[bmwtechguy]

I recently changed oil on a customer's car, a 2003 Buick Rendezvous with 12k miles/11 months on oil and filter and I started up the engine cold on a 45 def F morning and let it run for about 20 minutes to get the oil good and warm so it would drain. The oil drained out warm/hot and the oil pan was warm/hot as well, but the oil filter was STONE COLD.

Last year I had put on this EaO23 which is a longer version of the EaO29. I think that was the only filter I had at the time that was recommended for one year and would fit that engine. I stock some Mobil 1 filters for long oil changes as well. The oil filter that I put back on was a M1-201, again the longer filter. Oil used both times was ATM, or Amsoil 10W-30. When the engine was started with new oil and filter, the filter was immediately warm.

The engine seems fine and looks relatively clean down inside the oil fill area of the front cylinder head. The car is mostly driven around town here and there, with a yearly road trip to Kentucky and Iowa to visit extended family.

I was really curious why that oil filter was obviously not flowing oil, so I called the Tech Dept at Amsoil and told him the scenario. He immediately chastised me for using a filter not recommended for that application. If anything I think the EaO23 should have been able to hold more contaminants because it is longer. He informed me that the EaO29 has a bypass valve in it, making it quite different than the EaO23. But later I checked a classic Purolator that crosses to the EaO29 and it did not have a bypass valve in it either. So apparently this engine has an internal oil filter bypass in case the oil filter fails or reaches capacity. Not sure why the EaO29 has a bypass inside and other brands do not.

Anyway, I am going to error on the side of caution and hold off on using these filters, at least for extended drains until I find out what happened. Also, Amsoil sent me a form to fill out and send in with the filter, so now I am waiting to hear back from them.