The Amsoil product guide no longer shows 0w-30 as a recommended product for my app. Is this a 'caution' thing on their part with dealer warranties relative to 5w-20 or 0w-20 more so? I just thought it was strange that the AZO(previously SSO) is no longer 'recommended' outright.
Amsoil changes recommendation for my app?
- Thread starter ltslimjim
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They're covering their arse. Years back SSO was recommended for almost everything with 4 wheels that ran on gas. Fact: engines calling for 5W20 only were also included, and IIRC some 5W40 apps, but I can't swear to that. I guess they realized they could be putting their heads on the legal block if there was a problem.
Amsoil is simply following the book because of all the questions they got from customers. Customers requested this.
I've pretty much come to the conclusion demarpaint isn't qualified to answer Amsoil questions and he will just make up stuff. I'm not calling him names, or saying he doesn't know stuff, just saying take what he says in Amsoil threads with a grain of salt.
I've pretty much come to the conclusion demarpaint isn't qualified to answer Amsoil questions and he will just make up stuff. I'm not calling him names, or saying he doesn't know stuff, just saying take what he says in Amsoil threads with a grain of salt.
Why not look back a few years Pablo and see for yourself. Amsoil recommended SSO for several 5W20 only applications, Chrysler and Ford come to mind. Clearly going against the mfg recommendations! I know I was an Amsoil customer. Sorry though I don't have access to the old web pages to show you.
Funny the OP noticed the change too, and you admitted it by saying "Amsoil is simply following the book because of all the questions they got from customers. Customers requested this."
Making things up, hardly. Customers called Amsoil asking for the change, really? Did they ask them to lower the service life of the oil filters for the sludge prone engines too?
Funny the OP noticed the change too, and you admitted it by saying "Amsoil is simply following the book because of all the questions they got from customers. Customers requested this."
Making things up, hardly. Customers called Amsoil asking for the change, really? Did they ask them to lower the service life of the oil filters for the sludge prone engines too?
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Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Why not look back a few years Pablo and see for yourself. Amsoil recommended SSO for several 5W20 only applications, Chrysler and Ford come to mind. Clearly going against the mfg recommendations! I know I was an Amsoil customer. Sorry though I don't have access to the old web pages to show you.
Funny the OP noticed the change too, and you admitted it by saying "Amsoil is simply following the book because of all the questions they got from customers. Customers requested this."
Making things up, hardly. Customers called Amsoil asking for the change, really? Did they ask them to lower the service life of the oil filters for the sludge prone engines too?
See that is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. You don't slow down and think things through. You don't get it, do you?
Look what you wrote. You said "They're covering their arse. ....I guess they realized they could be putting their heads on the legal block if there was a problem."
That's wrong. Why write stuff when you don't actually know if it's true or not?
Why not look back a few years Pablo and see for yourself. Amsoil recommended SSO for several 5W20 only applications, Chrysler and Ford come to mind. Clearly going against the mfg recommendations! I know I was an Amsoil customer. Sorry though I don't have access to the old web pages to show you.
Funny the OP noticed the change too, and you admitted it by saying "Amsoil is simply following the book because of all the questions they got from customers. Customers requested this."
Making things up, hardly. Customers called Amsoil asking for the change, really? Did they ask them to lower the service life of the oil filters for the sludge prone engines too?
See that is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. You don't slow down and think things through. You don't get it, do you?
Look what you wrote. You said "They're covering their arse. ....I guess they realized they could be putting their heads on the legal block if there was a problem."
That's wrong. Why write stuff when you don't actually know if it's true or not?
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
The Amsoil product guide no longer shows 0w-30 as a recommended product for my app. Is this a 'caution' thing on their part with dealer warranties relative to 5w-20 or 0w-20 more so? I just thought it was strange that the AZO(previously SSO) is no longer 'recommended' outright.
Jim as I stated before - regular customers (not BITOG members) folks really would be quite baffled when Amsoil had 0W-30 called out for their 5W-20 mini-van. Or 0W-30 for their 5w30 Chevy. WE know these oils would work, but Amsoil was using an inordinate amount of resources explaining this - people would just end up choosing the recommended viscosity anyway. Yes people requested an end to the confusion.
The Amsoil product guide no longer shows 0w-30 as a recommended product for my app. Is this a 'caution' thing on their part with dealer warranties relative to 5w-20 or 0w-20 more so? I just thought it was strange that the AZO(previously SSO) is no longer 'recommended' outright.
Jim as I stated before - regular customers (not BITOG members) folks really would be quite baffled when Amsoil had 0W-30 called out for their 5W-20 mini-van. Or 0W-30 for their 5w30 Chevy. WE know these oils would work, but Amsoil was using an inordinate amount of resources explaining this - people would just end up choosing the recommended viscosity anyway. Yes people requested an end to the confusion.
Lets apply some logic here. Amsoil clearly spec'd SSO, ASM, and XL 5w20 for my Jeep a few years back. Chrysler clearly states use 5W20 only, as does Ford in many applications. If a person was to use 0W30 and have an issue they would not be using what the mfg spec'd. Now Amsoil is following mfg specs, smart move.
Lets not get into API certs, lets talk oil grade,and mfg specs. Amsoil would be covering their Arse by no longer suggestion SSO, and sticking to mfg specs. What's wrong with that logic?
Lets not get into API certs, lets talk oil grade,and mfg specs. Amsoil would be covering their Arse by no longer suggestion SSO, and sticking to mfg specs. What's wrong with that logic?
Logical, from your view point, but it's not why Amsoil changed. Why does that bother you so much?
You answered the question as if you knew for a fact. It's amusing.
You answered the question as if you knew for a fact. It's amusing.
Pablo I have a hard time believing that reducing liability wasn't a big factor in that decision. Sorry to say you'll never convince me otherwise. I'd love to see the facts backing up your statements, all of them.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Pablo I have a hard time believing that reducing liability wasn't a big factor in that decision. Sorry to say you'll never convince me otherwise. I'd love to see the facts backing up your statements, all of them.
So, you freely admit you didn't really know the answer and you just answered as if you knew the truth. That's what I'm talking about.
This change actually happened several months ago. After 12 years with Amsoil you think I you know a few folks at Amsoil. Maybe.
Pablo I have a hard time believing that reducing liability wasn't a big factor in that decision. Sorry to say you'll never convince me otherwise. I'd love to see the facts backing up your statements, all of them.
So, you freely admit you didn't really know the answer and you just answered as if you knew the truth. That's what I'm talking about.
This change actually happened several months ago. After 12 years with Amsoil you think I you know a few folks at Amsoil. Maybe.
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Pablo I have a hard time believing that reducing liability wasn't a big factor in that decision. Sorry to say you'll never convince me otherwise. I'd love to see the facts backing up your statements, all of them.
So, you freely admit you didn't really know the answer and you just answered as if you knew the truth. That's what I'm talking about.
This change actually happened several months ago. After 12 years with Amsoil you think I you know a few folks at Amsoil. Maybe.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
They're covering their arse. Years back SSO was recommended for almost everything with 4 wheels that ran on gas. Fact: engines calling for 5W20 only were also included, and IIRC some 5W40 apps, but I can't swear to that. I guess* they realized they could be putting their heads on the legal block if there was a problem.
Lets see, I used the words "I guess"*, didn't I? Does that imply fact?
So you know people at Amsoil, that makes your words facts right? You're a salesman, I'm a salesman too. Legal didn't play in one bit? Yea OK.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Pablo I have a hard time believing that reducing liability wasn't a big factor in that decision. Sorry to say you'll never convince me otherwise. I'd love to see the facts backing up your statements, all of them.
So, you freely admit you didn't really know the answer and you just answered as if you knew the truth. That's what I'm talking about.
This change actually happened several months ago. After 12 years with Amsoil you think I you know a few folks at Amsoil. Maybe.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
They're covering their arse. Years back SSO was recommended for almost everything with 4 wheels that ran on gas. Fact: engines calling for 5W20 only were also included, and IIRC some 5W40 apps, but I can't swear to that. I guess* they realized they could be putting their heads on the legal block if there was a problem.
Lets see, I used the words "I guess"*, didn't I? Does that imply fact?
So you know people at Amsoil, that makes your words facts right? You're a salesman, I'm a salesman too. Legal didn't play in one bit? Yea OK.
Checking with legal was just a formality. Legal certainly didn't challenge it.
Dude you wrote:
Quote:
They're covering their arse.
That was wrong. You owe Jim and I an apology.
Dude you wrote:
Quote:
They're covering their arse.
That was wrong. You owe Jim and I an apology.
I owe you an apology for stating an opinion that you disagree with? Remember the words "I guess" means its my opinion, or a guess. And a pretty good one at that. You owe me an apology for saying I make things up.
If Jim was offended by my comments I'll apologize to him, sorry Jim.
If Jim was offended by my comments I'll apologize to him, sorry Jim.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I owe you an apology for stating an opinion that you disagree with? Remember the words "I guess" means its my opinion, or a guess.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
They're covering their arse.
Your opinion. Thanks.
I owe you an apology for stating an opinion that you disagree with? Remember the words "I guess" means its my opinion, or a guess.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
They're covering their arse.
Your opinion. Thanks.
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I owe you an apology for stating an opinion that you disagree with? Remember the words "I guess" means its my opinion, or a guess.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
They're covering their arse.
Your opinion. Thanks.
And yours.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I owe you an apology for stating an opinion that you disagree with? Remember the words "I guess" means its my opinion, or a guess.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
They're covering their arse.
Your opinion. Thanks.
And yours.
I've noticed many of the on-line oil recommendation apps make only the same recommendations as manufacturers. I don't see how Amsoil is different in this regard. I have been working from the assumption that most of the recommendation apps are just pulling data from a common database of OEM recommendations.
Does anyone know if the Amsoil on-line app recommends 0W30 for any application currently?
In my application (2005 Montana SV6, 3.5L) Amsoil AND Redline recommend ONLY 5W30, just like GM. I don't recall ever running 5W30 in this engine, even during the warranty period.
Does anyone know if the Amsoil on-line app recommends 0W30 for any application currently?
In my application (2005 Montana SV6, 3.5L) Amsoil AND Redline recommend ONLY 5W30, just like GM. I don't recall ever running 5W30 in this engine, even during the warranty period.
I think Pablo and Frank are talking in regards to same action and putting their own 'plausible' spin on it. Of course as a guy that is pro Amsoil, Pablo is coming from one angle and Frank stating something that perhaps factored into things.
For me, it's the whole 'doesnt have API certs' vs 'prove it caused the issue(failure etc)' argument.
Amsoil is avoiding issue here, that is clear, by moving to be even more consistent with OE spec'd fluids than before. They were pretty solid already, AFAIK, when I came onboard.
For instance, their MTF Synchromesh works great in the Civic I drive, but they don't spec it because at the time the book for my car was pre-Honda Genuine MTF. The later aftermarket manuals/Honda have since back spec'd for the HG MTF, but Amsoil is going on factory released time of build from what I gather.
Like their info on cars with known issues and recommending not extending intervals in apps with known issues. They have looked out for the customer more and more, IMO.
It's more like avoid confusion and potential 'issues' with people more so than with performance in an app, IMO anyway.
For instance, use their MTF in place of Honda Genuine is a win for me, while they only recommend either a 10w-30 or 10w-40 like the manual initially called for.
No problems with Frank or Pablo, I like 'em both. Oil guys with passion that don't always approach things the same way.
Both assets to this site. Enjoyed the back and forth myself!
For me, it's the whole 'doesnt have API certs' vs 'prove it caused the issue(failure etc)' argument.
Amsoil is avoiding issue here, that is clear, by moving to be even more consistent with OE spec'd fluids than before. They were pretty solid already, AFAIK, when I came onboard.
For instance, their MTF Synchromesh works great in the Civic I drive, but they don't spec it because at the time the book for my car was pre-Honda Genuine MTF. The later aftermarket manuals/Honda have since back spec'd for the HG MTF, but Amsoil is going on factory released time of build from what I gather.
Like their info on cars with known issues and recommending not extending intervals in apps with known issues. They have looked out for the customer more and more, IMO.
It's more like avoid confusion and potential 'issues' with people more so than with performance in an app, IMO anyway.
For instance, use their MTF in place of Honda Genuine is a win for me, while they only recommend either a 10w-30 or 10w-40 like the manual initially called for.
No problems with Frank or Pablo, I like 'em both. Oil guys with passion that don't always approach things the same way.
Both assets to this site. Enjoyed the back and forth myself!
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
Both assets to this site. Enjoyed the back and forth myself!
Yea, it was like a front row seat to a Monty Python skit, you know the one, "I'd like to but an arguement"...
...and if you don't look it up on Youtube!
Both assets to this site. Enjoyed the back and forth myself!
Yea, it was like a front row seat to a Monty Python skit, you know the one, "I'd like to but an arguement"...
...and if you don't look it up on Youtube!
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
It's more like avoid confusion and potential 'issues' with people more so than with performance in an app, IMO anyway.
That is exactly the reason and the reason it got me spun up enough at the time to find out why and tell Amsoil I didn't exactly agree.
It's more like avoid confusion and potential 'issues' with people more so than with performance in an app, IMO anyway.
That is exactly the reason and the reason it got me spun up enough at the time to find out why and tell Amsoil I didn't exactly agree.
Well I'm glad to see Jim has no problems with me, I didn't think he would.
In the end it was two different opinions. One from a company rep, the other an enthusiast, who likes to read between the lines and put the puzzle together. For now its all good, but I'm pretty sure we'll be clashing horns again. LOL
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