AMSOIL, ASL 5W30, 12880 m, Avalanche K1500

[jst4f]

Chevy Avalanche K1500, 5.3L engine
Mileage 41543
Time on oil 12880
Travel was highway, no towing

I am using AMSOIL oil advertised to last up to 25K miles between oil changes, or 1 yr, and 12.5k between filter changes, or 6 months. At the midway point I decided to take an oil sample for an oil analysis, when I changed the filter. This is my first oil analysis. I got the following results.
ppm
Iron 25
Chromium 2
Lead 22
Copper 82 listed as abnormal
Tin 0
Al 7
Nickel 0
Silver 0
Silicon 13
Boron 29
Sodium 11
Magnesium 756
Calcium 2533
Barium 0
Phosphorus 1036
Zinc 1312
Molyboenum 6
Titanium 0
Vanadium 0
Potassium 0
--------------------
Fuel-prcnt vol Vis 40C N/A
Vis 100C 17.07-listed as abnormal
Water 0
Soot/Solids N/A
Glycol Neg
TBN 6.57
Oxid 22
Nitr 21

I emailed the vendor about the results and was told, in part, that the copper was normal and from an oil cooler and that the oil thickening was from a engine problem that causes a local hot area, perhaps due to a defective EGR.

This is the most amazing site for oil information, I thought I would post these results and get some second opinions.

P.S. As a result of this test I have changed the oil.

Thank you

 

[Pablo]

The copper is normal. The thickening is HUGE!!

Interesting the TBN and Oxidation are great.

This oil does not get along real well with GM V8's - but perhaps there is something amiss with your smog system.

 

[Al]

What oil did you put in???? I wouldn't run this one out much 4 or 5 K miles and definately do another sample. I'm sure the copper will come down. Granted Amsoil thickens up some but this is in the 50 wt. range. I'd stay away from this oil in your vehicle.

 

[rg144]

Good quote: "This is the most amazing site for oil information" --- I agree. Who did the analysis? Wonder how they knew the oil could not handle the engine? That is rare (any synthetic can do 10 to 12K) - unless it is a turbo engine.

[ February 11, 2005, 11:04 PM: Message edited by: rg144 ]

 

[wulimaster]

quote:

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Originally posted by Al:
What oil did you put in???? I wouldn't run this one out much 4 or 5 K miles and definately do another sample. I'm sure the copper will come down. Granted Amsoil thickens up some but this is in the 50 wt. range. I'd stay away from this oil in your vehicle.

---

I'd disagree. I would find out why your engine is so hard on oil first before making judgements about the oil. I have seen this oil go for this many miles is some engines without topup and still be close to specs. Some engines are very hard on oil and some are not. Try to solve the problem with the engine first or else go short intervals with top shelf synthetic oils. I would hate to have seen a dino oil result from your vehicle.

 

[jst4f]

quote:

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Originally posted by wulimaster:

quote:

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Originally posted by Al:
What oil did you put in???? I wouldn't run this one out much 4 or 5 K miles and definately do another sample. I'm sure the copper will come down. Granted Amsoil thickens up some but this is in the 50 wt. range. I'd stay away from this oil in your vehicle.

---

I'd disagree. I would find out why your engine is so hard on oil first before making judgements about the oil. I have seen this oil go for this many miles is some engines without topup and still be close to specs. Some engines are very hard on oil and some are not. Try to solve the problem with the engine first or else go short intervals with top shelf synthetic oils. I would hate to have seen a dino oil result from your vehicle.

---

I am inclined to see if there is an engine problem, first. I don't see myself as a hard driver and there have been no engine mods. I just can't imagine a problem that could thicken the oil and not show up somewhere else. The rest of the paramaters in the oil looked good. The gas mileage is comparable to other Avalanches. < I am a member of www.chevyavalanchefanclub.com. >
I would really like to take it to the dealer with some ideas on what could be wrong rather than depend solely on their capabilities. Just so it is clear, I am not blaming the oil nor am I upset with AMSOIL.

Any ideas?

 

[jst4f]

Thank you for the quick responses and good questions. Here is a little more background.

I have used AMSOIL 5W30 starting at 3735 miles. The oil analysis was done on the third oil change using AMSOIL. It was the first oil analysis. The mileage was 41543 with about 12K on the oil. Most of the 12K miles was highway driving in two trips. SOCAL to Alaska and back and SOCAL to CO and back. While I have four wheel drive, I did not do any off-roading during this 12k. To add to my concern about the oil thickening, I added a quart of oil at 38506 miles. The Chevy 5.3L engine has a history of oil useage.

The oil analysis was done by Oil Analyzers Inc.

I understand that the performance of the oil is not good and I changed the oil as soon as I got the analysis results. My question is what could be causing the thickening? This site and other "oil sites" have confirmed that AMSOIL oil will thicken but my results are extreem. Before I charge off to the dealer, I have extended warrenty, I want to be armed with more information. I have never regretted going to the dealer, armed to the teeth with knowledge.

Any ideas? Has anyone run across this problem and what was the cause?

Thank you.

Owen "jst4f" Thomsen

 

[jst4f]

P.S.

It is a stock 5.3L engine. No turbo

I have also used AMSOIL oil filters and foam air filters since the first oil change at 3735 miles.

 

[olympic]

I don't think there is a problem with your engine. I had similar results in my bypass filter equipped 03 Montana with an 18k mile hiway run with Amsoil Series 2000 0w30. The UOA showed everything to be fine except viscosity had risen to 16.4cst. Subsequent UOA's with M1 and XD3 showed little to no increase in viscostiy.

 

[wulimaster]

quote:

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Originally posted by olympic:
I don't think there is a problem with your engine. I had similar results in my bypass filter equipped 03 Montana with an 18k mile hiway run with Amsoil Series 2000 0w30. The UOA showed everything to be fine except viscosity had risen to 16.4cst. Subsequent UOA's with M1 and XD3 showed little to no increase in viscostiy.

---

Did you do a flush or autoRx before switching over to the Amsoil from the 65 cent a quart bulk oil that was used up until the Amsoil 0w30 run on your 03 Montana? If not then a lot of the thickening could be attributed to Amsoil cleaning in your particular case. It would have been nice to see another run since the Mobil 1 also thickened up over 13% during a similar run. I would bet that another run of either Mobil 1 or Amsoil would show less thickening for each of them.

 

[Mamala Bay]

TBN at 6.57 which shows this oil is doing good for 12,000 miles. Why the oil has thicken that much seems very unusual. It wouldn't make sense for any synthetic oil with the base Amsoil uses for this oil to normally behave in this matter.

 

[ekpolk]

quote:

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Originally posted by Mamala Bay:
TBN at 6.57 which shows this oil is doing good for 12,000 miles. Why the oil has thicken that much seems very unusual. It wouldn't make sense for any synthetic oil with the base Amsoil uses for this oil to normally behave in this matter.

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Alas, it's not that unusual. I agree that it's hard to envision why or how this makes sense, yet if you examine the UOAs, you'll see that several of the Amsoil products thicken like this over and over, with fair consistency (although a two-grade plunge is rather extreme). It is especially baffling, since Amsoil claims pretty good Noack numbers on their products, and at least in my mind, evaporation would be a prime suspect in thickening. Maybe one of our chemists can offer an explanation of the mechanism that's at work here.

 

[Don Stevens]

I wouldn't panic. ASL does thicken with time especially in V-8s. I have run ASL in my Ford 4.6 V8 for 16,000 miles and it also thickened to nearly a 50 wt. Wear numbers, Oxd, Nit, and TBN wer all fine. OAI was not alarmed citing American V-8s run hot on purpose (for emission reasons) and consequeently are tough on oil.

I switched to XLM 5W20 to give it a try. It is a group III rated for 7500 miles. I ran it 8300 miles and it barely, just barely thickened out to a 30wt. Wear numbers were excellent

I am currently testing ATM 10W30 and have 6000 sample at OAI now. I'll advise how it looks when I get the results.

I am trying to find the right oil for my vehicle and might suggest you try some other weights / brands to find what your truck likes.

Don

 

[Big John]

quote:

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Originally posted by jst4f:
Thank you for the quick responses and good questions. Here is a little more background.

I have used AMSOIL 5W30 starting at 3735 miles. The oil analysis was done on the third oil change using AMSOIL. It was the first oil analysis. The mileage was 41543 with about 12K on the oil. Most of the 12K miles was highway driving in two trips. SOCAL to Alaska and back and SOCAL to CO and back. While I have four wheel drive, I did not do any off-roading during this 12k. To add to my concern about the oil thickening, I added a quart of oil at 38506 miles. The Chevy 5.3L engine has a history of oil useage.
What year are we talking here,I have no oil useage issues with my 5.3,mine is an 03 with 28k...
The oil analysis was done by Oil Analyzers Inc.

I understand that the performance of the oil is not good and I changed the oil as soon as I got the analysis results. My question is what could be causing the thickening? This site and other "oil sites" have confirmed that AMSOIL oil will thicken but my results are extreem. Before I charge off to the dealer, I have extended warrenty, I want to be armed with more information. I have never regretted going to the dealer, armed to the teeth with knowledge.

Any ideas? Has anyone run across this problem and what was the cause?

Thank you.

Owen "jst4f" Thomsen

---

 

[Big John]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Big John:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jst4f:
Thank you for the quick responses and good questions. Here is a little more background.

I have used AMSOIL 5W30 starting at 3735 miles. The oil analysis was done on the third oil change using AMSOIL. It was the first oil analysis. The mileage was 41543 with about 12K on the oil. Most of the 12K miles was highway driving in two trips. SOCAL to Alaska and back and SOCAL to CO and back. While I have four wheel drive, I did not do any off-roading during this 12k. To add to my concern about the oil thickening, I added a quart of oil at 38506 miles. The Chevy 5.3L engine has a history of oil useage.

The oil analysis was done by Oil Analyzers Inc.

I understand that the performance of the oil is not good and I changed the oil as soon as I got the analysis results. My question is what could be causing the thickening? This site and other "oil sites" have confirmed that AMSOIL oil will thicken but my results are extreem. Before I charge off to the dealer, I have extended warrenty, I want to be armed with more information. I have never regretted going to the dealer, armed to the teeth with knowledge.

Any ideas? Has anyone run across this problem and what was the cause?

Thank you.

Owen "jst4f" Thomsen

---

---

What year are we talking here,I have no oil useage issues with my 5.3,mine is an 03 with 28k...

 

[haley10]

I don't see a problem, but I would probably get the Dyson analysis before going to the dealer. It would be money well spent to point you in the right direction. Amsoil thickening is not unusual.

 

[TooSlick]

Owen,

There is something about the operating characteristics of this particular motor that is causing a high rate of contamination/solids from oxidation and nitration; especially considering the highway driving conditions. I think it's a combination of the EGR setup, combined with a very lean burn, which makes the cylinder heads run hot.


The other factor that "may" be making the problem worse is the high concentration of copper in the wear patterns of these GM engine. Copper acts as a catalyst for the oxidation of lubricants. In fact certain types of lubricant bench tests, such as the "TFOUT" - Thin Film Oxygen Uptake Test - use copper strips to accelerate oxidation reactions

Assuming the engine is tuned up and running optimally, there are two ways to go here:

1) Stick with the regular Amsoil 5w-30 or 10w-30 and shorten the drain interval to 10,000 miles. The processes of oxidation/nitration are non-linear and you'll find a significant # of this oil degradation and thickening has occurred in the last 3000 miles of this drain. Minimize this thickening and your bearing/Pb wear will drop significantly and you'll maintain better fuel efficiency throughout the drain interval.

2) Consider using the significantly more robust Amsoil Series 3000, 5w-30. I'd recommend testing this oil again after 12,500 miles to see how much margin of safety you have left at that point. Based on experience, I believe you should be able to run 12,000-15,000 drain intervals with the Series 3000 formulation without excessive thickening. If you buy the Series 3000 in a case of one gallon containers it's about $2.00 more per quart then the regular 5w-30/10w-30.

As a practical matter, running drain intervals > 15,000 miles in ANY V-8 engine with a 5-6 quart sump - and achieving optimum results - is very difficult. This is mainly due to the amount of fuel consumed and the resultant oil contamination that results. The recent "3MP" study is NOT a good example of what you can expect in a large displacement V-8, due to the 5-6 quarts of fresh makeup oil that was added in both test runs ....

If you do test the Series 3000, please send me a copy of the results. I'll be glad to give you my professional opinion about the results.


TS

 

[Pablo]

Per TS:

quote:

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Copper acts as a catalyst for the oxidation of lubricants.

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Good point......

 

[haley10]

quote:

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Originally posted by Pablo:
Per TS:

quote:

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Copper acts as a catalyst for the oxidation of lubricants.

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Good point......

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I guess the oil cooler can be both good and bad then with the copper content. I wonder if it keeping the oil too cool.