Amsoil and Ford Warranty

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Thanks Hemi!

Read the words carefully. Ford cannot deny your warranty if you use an API oil in the correct viscosity. Take that to any lawyer.


Don't forget that they specify the Ford oil spec as well under capacities and specifications. It is in 2 places but it is there, in writing, so any lawyer will say the Ford spec matters too.


No it does NOT say SHALL OR MUST nor any other imperative. Read it carefully - those are recommendations, not requirements to keep the warranty whole.

 

[UG_Passat]

Amsoil XL 5w20 is one of the few that Amsoil actually certifies with API. (XL line and OE line).... (has SN)

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Thanks Hemi!

Read the words carefully. Ford cannot deny your warranty if you use an API oil in the correct viscosity. Take that to any lawyer.


Don't forget that they specify the Ford oil spec as well under capacities and specifications. It is in 2 places but it is there, in writing, so any lawyer will say the Ford spec matters too.


No it does NOT say SHALL OR MUST nor any other imperative. Read it carefully - those are recommendations, not requirements to keep the warranty whole.


I can read and I know how it works. It is listed in the manual so it matters. You need an oil that meets or exceeds the Ford spec. Doesn't have to be licensed but it does matter. If it did not matter it would not be listed.

 

[demarpaint]

NHHEMI I agree, I know first hand how dealers work when a problem arises and it isn't in black and white. Why hassle it? Use what Ford says, enjoy the car, and save lawyers fees if you have a problem. Remember its your car, and it can easily sit on a dealers service lot collecting dust and bird droppings while things get sorted out. IMO it is not worth it. If/when Amsoil updates their labeling, or they give you some kind of written proof you can present to Ford by all means use it. We all know it's a good oil.

 

[Jim Allen]

A lot of needless hand-wringing going on here IMO.

1) The likelihood of any engine failure is not great. The odds are with you.

2) If you use a quality oil, like the XL, and in the recommended viscosity (something I do think is important), changed at a reasonable (or at least justifiable) interval, the likelihood of a failure that can be attributed to the oil is almost non-existant.

3) Most engine failures have easily discernible causes. If it isn't anything directly connected to the lubricant, as it is much of the time, dealers don't often feel the need to dig deeper. Many failures are weak links that dealers see over and over. They don't fight that stuff.

4) Most warranty problems start as dealer problems. Incompetence. CYA. Stupidity. Childish control issues. Whatever. A good dealer will work with you. Work to find a good dealer.

5) In the end, they have to prove it was the lubricant that caused the problem. That's pretty hard to do most often and probably not worth FOMOCO's time, unless it's clear you've been using some of that garbage PQIA has been exposing lately or forgetting to change it.

6) If, despite all the odds being in your favor, fate decrees the most unfortunate combination of circumstances, a stiff fight from a justified owner is often enough to turn the tables. If you aren't up to that, then by all means follow the RECOMMENDATIONS in the manual to the letter and in abject terror. Strangely, in my time at dealers, the people who fought the hardest were usually the people who were the least justified (neglect or abuse) in receiving any goodwill. They often got their way... unfortunately.

 

[PontiacFan]

Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
5) In the end, they have to prove it was the lubricant that caused the problem. That's pretty hard to do most often and probably not worth FOMOCO's time, unless it's clear you've been using some of that garbage PQIA has been exposing lately or forgetting to change it.


They will want to see receipts, and when they see that you were using an oil that did not meet there specs then you are up the river or is it up the creek.

If you want to go Amsoil, use the XL Line during the Warranty period, will something bad happen if you go with there 100% synthetic oil, probably not, of course that depends on your driving conditions.

I will say one thing, if you do have a Warranty Claim, meaning something goes terribly wrong, be advised there is NOTHING AND I MEAN NOTHING, your Amsoil sales dealer can do to help you out, it is out of there hands, I know this for a fact since I did call up the Amsoil Tech Line with a Warranty Scenario, this is something that the Amsoil people do not want to talk about, I even had a discussion with an Amsoil Rep in my area, he was nervous, bottom line is that the OP will have to make up his own mind, most Amsoil users are not worried about Warranties, since the OP is worried, then maybe the XL Line is his best bet, because if there is a Warranty problem you can bet that Ford and Amsoil will be fighting to accuse the other of the problem, this whole process can probably take either 6 months or a year to get resolved, we have had many threads on this subject in the past, everyone can do what they want, hopefully no problems come up.

 

[jazzcat]

thanks for sounding off guys...some of these debates went on for 20+ pages in the mustang forum...thought i'd refer to some experts here...this is an oil site afterall.

 

[PontiacFan]

Originally Posted By: jazzcat
thanks for sounding off guys...some of these debates went on for 20+ pages in the mustang forum...thought i'd refer to some experts here...this is an oil site afterall.


We are here to give you our opinions and what we know from years of experience, anymore questions, feel free to ask.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: PontiacFan

If you want to go Amsoil, use the XL Line during the Warranty period, will something bad happen if you go with there 100% synthetic oil, probably not, of course that depends on your driving conditions.

I will say one thing, if you do have a Warranty Claim, meaning something goes terribly wrong, be advised there is NOTHING AND I MEAN NOTHING, your Amsoil sales dealer can do to help you out, it is out of there hands, I know this for a fact since I did call up the Amsoil Tech Line with a Warranty Scenario, this is something that the Amsoil people do not want to talk about, I even had a discussion with an Amsoil Rep in my area, he was nervous, bottom line is that the OP will have to make up his own mind, most Amsoil users are not worried about Warranties, since the OP is worried, then maybe the XL Line is his best bet, because if there is a Warranty problem you can bet that Ford and Amsoil will be fighting to accuse the other of the problem, this whole process can probably take either 6 months or a year to get resolved, we have had many threads on this subject in the past, everyone can do what they want, hopefully no problems come up.


The XL line currently does not meet the Ford Spec for the OPs car. It was already mentioned in this thread by the OP. I doubt he'll have a problem, but......................

 

[Joenpb]

Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
A lot of needless hand-wringing going on here IMO.

1) The likelihood of any engine failure is not great. The odds are with you.

2) If you use a quality oil, like the XL, and in the recommended viscosity (something I do think is important), changed at a reasonable (or at least justifiable) interval, the likelihood of a failure that can be attributed to the oil is almost non-existant.

3) Most engine failures have easily discernible causes. If it isn't anything directly connected to the lubricant, as it is much of the time, dealers don't often feel the need to dig deeper. Many failures are weak links that dealers see over and over. They don't fight that stuff.

4) Most warranty problems start as dealer problems. Incompetence. CYA. Stupidity. Childish control issues. Whatever. A good dealer will work with you. Work to find a good dealer.

5) In the end, they have to prove it was the lubricant that caused the problem. That's pretty hard to do most often and probably not worth FOMOCO's time, unless it's clear you've been using some of that garbage PQIA has been exposing lately or forgetting to change it.

6) If, despite all the odds being in your favor, fate decrees the most unfortunate combination of circumstances, a stiff fight from a justified owner is often enough to turn the tables. If you aren't up to that, then by all means follow the RECOMMENDATIONS in the manual to the letter and in abject terror. Strangely, in my time at dealers, the people who fought the hardest were usually the people who were the least justified (neglect or abuse) in receiving any goodwill. They often got their way... unfortunately.


That is exactly my take on the topic, with a few highlighted points. Good luck Jazzcat!

 

[Whimsey]

This is just my

. After I bought my 2002 F-150 I was speaking with the service manager about oil changes and what would cause a warranty denial. He said they first look to see if it still has the factory oil & filter, don't laugh the majority of "oil lubrication problems" are due to this. Second they look at the oil, sample it and drop the pan & valve covers to see the condition of the engine. They send the oil out for an UOA, ie is it too new, too worn or way out of spec ie SA oil and is it too viscous ie 5W-20 recommended but 20W-50 used. At that point they will most likely ask to see records also if the engine indicates the the oil was not changed regularly.

Today lubrication failures are rare unless the engine was really abused.

Whimsey

 

[steve20]

Whim
Honest question here: why would Ford go through the trouble and expense of dismembering the engine (V covers and pan) and then ask for receipts--if they asked for receipts in the first place, it would save them a lot of time and money?

 

[Viggen]

There are several posters in this thread that are actually encouraging people to go AGAINST the recommendations of the manufacturer when it comes to their under warranty vehicle.

Don't listen to them. They are just people posting their OPINION on the internet, when it comes to crunch time and car companies looking to cut costs deny your claim remember the sound advice you were given, observe the requirements the manufacturer gave you IN WRITING to keep your warranty VALID!

I wonder how many of these strangers telling you to do whatever you want are going to pay for your engine repairs if your warranty claim is denied because you took their stupid advice?

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: Viggen
There are several posters in this thread that are actually encouraging people to go AGAINST the recommendations of the manufacturer when it comes to their under warranty vehicle.

Don't listen to them. They are just people posting their OPINION on the internet, when it comes to crunch time and car companies looking to cut costs deny your claim remember the sound advice you were given, observe the requirements the manufacturer gave you IN WRITING to keep your warranty VALID!

I wonder how many of these strangers telling you to do whatever you want are going to pay for your engine repairs if your warranty claim is denied because you took their stupid advice?


This is your OPINION, no different than the other strangers here - no different than myself. Did you actually read what the manual says IN WRITING? Many folks here actually get it. Folks are not saying do "whatever you want". They are saying RTFM and please follow it. It says EXACTLY what?

 

[demarpaint]

IMO it boils down to this. Use whatever you like, and worry about it "if" you have a problem. Use what Ford recommends and worry "less" if you have a problem. I actually worked at 5 different dealerships over the years, and saw first hand what happens if a company wants to bust balls. Cars sit until things get sorted out, sometimes a lawyer has to get involved and that costs $$$$$. The less opportunities you give a dealer to hassle you the better.

Do you have confidence the oil company, and the store or dealer you bought it from is going to go to bat for you, at their expense? Or will you need a lawyer at your expense make them go to bat? Or maybe it will be a walk in the park, no hassle repair. Pick one.

 

[Jim Allen]

I worked at more than five dealers and didn't see much "ball-busting" that wasn't justified (like a guy that went 30K on the factory fill yet demanded a new engine). Ultimately, if "they" want to bust your balls, "they" can tell you you are 10 miles over the OCI and say "tough luck." You'll have to fight that just as hard as if they find you are running some non recommended (but we will assume an otherwise quality) oil. That's why I was talking about lousy dealership people, because it often starts there. Or with power-mad district reps with delusions of grandeur.

Some "recommendations" are purely about profit (who pays the vig to get on the list, or we want to sell OUR branded product) and some (a minority) are about legitimate unique requirements that should be heeded. It's up to YOU, the owner, to know the differences and the details if you decide to vary from the factory.

Beyond legitimate requirements, are you married to some brand? Or to an API Starburst? How can we be? More oils don't have them than do and often it's merely an issue of paying for the certification or not rather than the oil not being "good enough."

It's all moderation. If you are trying write some new book about oil and maintenance and stretching the factory recommendations way out of shape, and a failure occurs as a result, YOU should bear the burden of that. That's fair and right. If a person thinks an OE should bail them out of their own bad choices or mistakes, I see that as a character issue.

So, sure, it could happen that if a failure occurs and you have Amsoil XL in your crankcase (and they figure that out) they might look for an excuse to deny a claim. The engine might also fall off a jetliner and land on your house. The odds of it happening are tiny in either case. People and companies are usually reasonable. Unreasonableness pops up in all aspects of life and we need to be ready for it but not in terror of it.

Me, I'm going to learn, use common sense, make my (hopefully correct) choices and live with them, not writhing in needless terror over some remotely possible warranty issue.

If it comes down to "use the factory oil or else" then Helen may as well shut down BITOG and we all should go home and shut up... except when the OE Mfrs (or the Govt.) tell us to bark.

 

[NHHEMI]

I have personally been involved with engine warranty claims where the oil used and OCI regimine was questioned from both the consumer's side of the counter and the service writer's side. There are no absolute certainties that you will be required to provide proof of anything when it comes to warranty. You could blow your engine and throw a rod through the side of the block drag racing and it could be fixed with no questions asked. It can happen.

However, many seem to make it sound like it never will happen so do whatever the heck you want and don't worry about it. My comments are meant to protect against that time, no matter how rare it may be, when you will be asked to prove you did things right. It DOES happen and IMO far more often than many think. I have seen it. In these tough economic times for every person and even the car mfg's it is more likely to happen. Warranty procedures are tighter than ever and most dealers can't just warranty an engine claim on their own. Most car mfg's now require higher ups to get involved.

People can do whatever they wish. The facts are you technically need to follow what the owner's manual says to do for oil changes. If you alter it that gives the car mfg a way to either deny coverage or at least delay it through a court battle. I have seen it 1st hand as has dermapaint. If that risk is worth it to you run whatever you want. If it isn't then just follow the OM requirements until warranty expires.

It baffles me the way people believe you can do otherwise and not put your warranty at risk. We have members here who have worked dealer service like myself and dermapaint who are telling you it happesn and we have had members who have posted it has happened to them too yet people continue to say it won't. Just blows my mind. let's not forget the not too long ago Toyota engine failure where the guy had to provide proof of proper maintenance before Toyota would repair his blown engine. They wanted to see proof he used the right stuff and changed it on time. IT DOES HAPPEN!

You do not have to use the OE brand of fluid. No one has said that. However, you do need to run the correct weight, use an oil that has the required API certification, and that at least meets/exceeds the OE oil spec. You also have to change it within the max allowed for time frame limit. This is not unreasonable for the car mfg's who provide the warranty to require this. It is actually how the law works too. You get to use the brand you want just make sure it is the right weight , has the correct make up, and that it gets changed on time. Very simple.

 

[SwampDweller]

On the other hand......doing tech work at dealer for many years, they don't even tell you what they put in your car when THEY do an oil change(read bulk 55 gal drums/cheapest avail), but they can get away with it. I know I would much rather have the "outlaw" Amsoil in it.

Life ain't fair.......

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
I worked at more than five dealers and didn't see much "ball-busting" that wasn't justified (like a guy that went 30K on the factory fill yet demanded a new engine). Ultimately, if "they" want to bust your balls, "they" can tell you you are 10 miles over the OCI and say "tough luck." You'll have to fight that just as hard as if they find you are running some non recommended (but we will assume an otherwise quality) oil. That's why I was talking about lousy dealership people, because it often starts there. Or with power-mad district reps with delusions of grandeur.

Some "recommendations" are purely about profit (who pays the vig to get on the list, or we want to sell OUR branded product) and some (a minority) are about legitimate unique requirements that should be heeded. It's up to YOU, the owner, to know the differences and the details if you decide to vary from the factory.

Beyond legitimate requirements, are you married to some brand? Or to an API Starburst? How can we be? More oils don't have them than do and often it's merely an issue of paying for the certification or not rather than the oil not being "good enough."

It's all moderation. If you are trying write some new book about oil and maintenance and stretching the factory recommendations way out of shape, and a failure occurs as a result, YOU should bear the burden of that. That's fair and right. If a person thinks an OE should bail them out of their own bad choices or mistakes, I see that as a character issue.

So, sure, it could happen that if a failure occurs and you have Amsoil XL in your crankcase (and they figure that out) they might look for an excuse to deny a claim. The engine might also fall off a jetliner and land on your house. The odds of it happening are tiny in either case. People and companies are usually reasonable. Unreasonableness pops up in all aspects of life and we need to be ready for it but not in terror of it.

Me, I'm going to learn, use common sense, make my (hopefully correct) choices and live with them, not writhing in needless terror over some remotely possible warranty issue.

If it comes down to "use the factory oil or else" then Helen may as well shut down BITOG and we all should go home and shut up... except when the OE Mfrs (or the Govt.) tell us to bark.


Jim I respect you comments and have learned a lot from you. A lot of people have never dealt with NY car dealers. It is not the same as other parts of the USA. I learned that when I helped my son buy his last car in WA. The deal was a pleasue, not like a cage battle typical of most L.I., NY dealers. They can and do bust balls when certain problems or so called areas of gray arise. We all know Amsoil makes a fine product, the fact that the OP asked the question means he's concerned. I'm just suggesting if he has any doubt to stick to the Ford spec oil and enjoy his new ride.

Maybe the dealers where the OP lives are different?

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: SwampDweller
On the other hand......doing tech work at dealer for many years, they don't even tell you what they put in your car when THEY do an oil change(read bulk 55 gal drums/cheapest avail), but they can get away with it. I know I would much rather have the "outlaw" Amsoil in it.

Life ain't fair.......


I agree with what you say. Even that I would rather have Amsoil than no-name bulk oil. However, the difference here is the customer had the dealer do the work and the dealer provided the oil vs the customer buying the oil. So, in the event there is a problem the customer is 100% covered. They have that dealer repair order receipt showing the dealer did the work and provided the oil. Even if the wrong oil was used and somehow the car mfg found out it is the dealer who would have the problems not the customer. It would be covered.