Amsoil 5w-30 vs Amsoil 10w-30

Status
Not open for further replies.
T

TooSlick

Joined
Aug 2, 2002
Messages
5,784
Location
Dixie
I answer a lot of emails and Private Messages about these two formulations, so I thought I'd try and clarify this question a bit. This is the most recent data I have on the "ASL" and "ATM" formulations:

---------------------------------5w30-----------10w-30

HT/HS viscosity------------- 3.5 Cp-----------3.5 Cp

VI------------------------------178----------------174

Noack Volatility--------------5.1%--------------4.9%

CCS viscosity @ -30C------ 4990 Cp

CCS viscosity @ -25C---------------------------3097 Cp

Shell Four Ball Wear Test--0.40 mm--------0.40 mm
(40kg/150C/1800 rpms for 1 hour)

About those CCS viscosities ...as a rule of thumb, a PAO based synthetic will thicken by a factor of 1.7 for every 5C drop in temperature. So the 10w30/ATM formulation would have an approx CCS viscosity of 5264 Cp @ -30C. In other words, it easily meets the CCS requirements for an SAE 5w30 grade @ -30C/-22F.

These two oils use the same basic additive chemistry and very similar basestock blends. For all practical purposes it's the same formulation and mixing the two is fine as well. The 10w30 seems to be a tad more shear stable for severe service applications like turbos, so I'd just recommend using the 10w30 if your engine calls for either 5w30 or 10w30.

Tooslick
 
I used to think the 10w30 didn't thicken as badly in V8's and selected other engines as the 5w30 but they are about the same, makes sense.

Al sadly needs to reformulate.

I'm not saying it happens in all engines, my Volvo 855 (which Terry calls a nasty dirty engine series) - went 20,000 miles on ASL (5w30) and no thickening.

TS - do me a favor, look through ALL the Amsoil thickened UOA's and give me a mean Cu value and calculate if there is a statistical relationship.
 
Pablo,

The thickening you see in V-8's is more of an issue with the Series 2000 and not these formulations, at least if you use reasonable drain intervals. I believe it has to do with the thinner and more volatile basestocks required to make this particular SAE 0w30 formulation. The Noack volatility of the 0w30 is 8.6%, which is significantly higher than for the 5w30/10w-30. The more volatile components of the Series 2000, 0w30 burn off during the first 10,000 miles of use and the resultant basestock tends to thicken when faced with high levels of insolubles. Interestingly enough, you don't see this happen to nearly the same degree in four cylinder engines, even in turbos. The reason is that oxidation from fuel contamination is much lower in these engines. I've been running 15,000 drains with Amsoil in 4/5 cylinder VW/Audi engines for about 25 years and have consistently seen very stable viscosities.

The Series 2000 chemistry has recently been reformulation and the additive chemistry is very different. I think you'll find when they release a spec sheet the volatility of this new formulation is much lower - somewhere in the 6.0%-7.0% range. I believe this will go a long way towards minimizing the oxidative and evaporative thickening we are seeing in some of these applications. In the meantime I think Amsoils most stable product for these big V-8's is the heavy duty 5w30, ie their Series 3000 formulation.

I certainly don't think it's necessary to make excuses for the Amsoil 5w30 and 10w30, which provide excellent wear protection in a wide variety of engines. They are some of the best formulations out there in terms of maintaining low wear rates over long drain intervals, even when compared to more expensive oils like Redline.

TS
 
TS - ASL thickens like a mofo in many V8's. Period. I agree most of these are dirty engines with crappy design, but still other oils don't thicken.....if Al won't reformulate, then he should drop the 25K miles for American V8's.
 
Paul,

Run any oil for 10k-15k in a V-8 engine without any makeup oil and it will thicken to some degree. I'm still waiting for some brave soul to try a 15,000 mile change interval with the Castrol 0w30 in ANY domestic V-8 (your pick). I'm willing to take wagers right now it will thicken out of grade
smile.gif
....As for Mobil 1, it's a 10 Centistoke formulation to begin with, so it would have to thicken by 25% to technically be a 40wt.

The oxidative thickening is a concern to me, but it's not the problem folks think it is. If you look at some of the long drain studies done on Mobil 1, ie SAE paper # 981444, you'll see it thickens widely - +80% @ 40C - over a 25,000 change interval, even with several quarts of makeup oil added.

TS
 
OCI=(C*) (MPG) (sump capacity in qts.) (cu.in/hp)

Use 120 for C*

A wise man once gave me that formula.
lol.gif


A best case might be like our Ford modular in the Navigator as oppossed to brother's Avalanche as far as chewing up oil an V-8's go.

I agree that mpg directly affects oil life, all things being equal.
 
You are all obsessed with oil testing.

All this complaining about thickening is much ado about NOTHIING. Just something for the Amsoil naysayers to hang thier hat on when the can't find something else to critize.

I have used Amsoil since 1977 and rarely do any UOA. I admit I have done it a few times in the last 5 yrs just our of curiosity but never did it tell me I needed to change, evern with over 10g on the oil. Back in the 70's and 80's I would go the 25,000 oil changes without batting a eyr. Logged many miles on my cars and never had any engine problems at all.

I think this site promotes UOA and some advertiser here likely enjoys increased cash flow from it. But I am of the opinion its a big waste of money for the avearge Joe.

[ March 08, 2005, 12:16 PM: Message edited by: 59 Vetteman ]
 
quote:
Originally posted by Mike:
You are all obsessed with oil testing.


I think this site promotes UOA and some advertiser here likely enjoys increased cash flow from it. But I am of the opinion its a big waste of money for the avearge Joe.
Click to expand...
I humbly submit that many here have saved much money by doing an occasional uoa to check engine health, especially the in-warranty coolant leaks.

Pablo was making the point I have wondered about also if high copper reduces oil life (it may) and surely fuel consumption does.
 
quote:
Originally posted by Mike:
But I am of the opinion its a big waste of money for the avearge Joe.
Click to expand...
If the average Joe drives 3000-5000 mile intervals I absolutley agree. If however, some average Joe wants to get the most for his money by extending the drain interval to 10000 miles and beyond, at least an occasional UAO is required.

I tend agree with Pablo on the 25,000 miles drain advertisement. While it is over general to say ceratin engines eat up the oil in 15,000 miles, they really ought to have an asterisk that recommends UOA at 1/2 way.

Don
 
quote:
Originally posted by haley10:
OCI=(C*) (MPG) (sump capacity in qts.) (cu.in/hp)

Use 120 for C*

A wise man once gave me that formula.
lol.gif


A best case might be like our Ford modular in the Navigator as oppossed to brother's Avalanche as far as chewing up oil an V-8's go.

I agree that mpg directly affects oil life, all things being equal.
Click to expand...
Okay, you peaked my intrest. Can you give me an example cause the numbers arent making any sense. If we are using the formula to come up with a ballpark OCI then the formula is telling me my OCI is around 323,000 miles. I'll leave a wide swath opening though that Im doing something wrong.
 
quote:
Originally posted by SyntheticShield:

quote:
Originally posted by haley10:
OCI=(C*) (MPG) (sump capacity in qts.) (cu.in/hp)

Use 120 for C*

A wise man once gave me that formula.
lol.gif


A best case might be like our Ford modular in the Navigator as oppossed to brother's Avalanche as far as chewing up oil an V-8's go.

I agree that mpg directly affects oil life, all things being equal.
Click to expand...
Okay, you peaked my intrest. Can you give me an example cause the numbers arent making any sense. If we are using the formula to come up with a ballpark OCI then the formula is telling me my OCI is around 323,000 miles. I'll leave a wide swath opening though that Im doing something wrong.
Click to expand...
TooSlick gave us this formula. For me in a 2000 Regal: (120) (26) (4.5) (1.1) = 15,444
dunno.gif


It's good for ballparking for normal gassers.

Show your math....

[ March 08, 2005, 03:08 PM: Message edited by: haley10 ]
 
Well this is what I came up with for my 2000 Ford Focus w/2.0L DOHC motor.

(120)(27)(6.5)(1997/130 = 15.36) = 323,481.6
dunno.gif


I cant figure out why I keep coming up with such a large answer, doesnt seem normal. Im certain Ive done something wrong somewhere.
 
quote:
Originally posted by SyntheticShield:
Well this is what I came up with for my 2000 Ford Focus w/2.0L DOHC motor.

(120)(27)(6.5)(1997/130 = 15.36) = 323,481.6
dunno.gif


I can't figure out why I keep coming up with such a large answer, doesnt seem normal. Im certain Ive done something wrong somewhere.
Click to expand...
1997 is cubic centimeters not cubic inches. This would make the multiplier around 1 (0ne).

Your engine is somewhere around 122 cubic inches. My 3800 is 231 cu." so I have to plug that in not cc's.

[ March 08, 2005, 04:37 PM: Message edited by: haley10 ]
 
Ahh, well see, I knew I was screwing up on something. My initial thought was that I had seen that the motor was 122 cu.in but I dismissed it. Should have stayed with the initial process and Id be okay. Really, I graduated, promise, LOL
 
quote:
Originally posted by SyntheticShield:
Ahh, well see, I knew I was screwing up on something. My initial thought was that I had seen that the motor was 122 cu.in but I dismissed it. Should have stayed with the initial process and Id be okay. Really, I graduated, promise, LOL
Click to expand...
6.5, man that is some serious sump capacity. Is that for real??
 
Yeah, its for real. I have the Amsoil dual remote bypass set up. I assumed that they meant total oil capacity. Normally it would be just 4.5qts with the oil filter. The by-pass system added two quarts to the overall capacity with the filters.
 
quote:
Originally posted by TooSlick:
Paul,

Run any oil for 10k-15k in a V-8 engine without any makeup oil and it will thicken to some degree. I'm still waiting for some brave soul to try a 15,000 mile change interval with the Castrol 0w30 in ANY domestic V-8 (your pick). I'm willing to take wagers right now it will thicken out of grade
smile.gif
....As for Mobil 1, it's a 10 Centistoke formulation to begin with, so it would have to thicken by 25% to technically be a 40wt.

The oxidative thickening is a concern to me, but it's not the problem folks think it is. If you look at some of the long drain studies done on Mobil 1, ie SAE paper # 981444, you'll see it thickens widely - +80% @ 40C - over a 25,000 change interval, even with several quarts of makeup oil added.

TS
Click to expand...
Too Slick,

Be careful of what you wish for, your wish may be granted. I just completed a 10,000 mile run of GC in my LS1 and the sample was just sent off to Blackstone Labs today.

On second thought, my sample may not prove a thing. I did have to add some make-up oil and I used Lube Control.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

V
Castrol 10w-30 vs Mobil 15w-40
Replies
14
Views
6K
PimTac
A
Another "Taxi" Study: Relationship of Engine Bearing Wear and Oil Rheology 872128
17 18 19
Replies
361
Views
34K
TiGeo
A
  • Locked
Thin vs Thick Discussion, Chapter 7
Replies
10
Views
7K
M56959
RDY4WAR
  • Locked
Havoline Syn-Blend High Mileage 5w-30 and 10w-30 NOACK and HTHS
Replies
12
Views
3K
ka9mnx
U
  • Locked
Shell vs Sunoco
Replies
9
Views
7K
Virtus_Probi
Back
Top Bottom