American-brand cars prove poipular with millennial
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Originally Posted By: MCompact
My next car will probably be a domestic- a 500 Abarth.
+1 Mine too
So far, I love my nerfed Abarth
No Honda or Toyota are match for those, they are plain boring.
Focus ST and Mazda Speed 3- yeah, those are fun.
My next car will probably be a domestic- a 500 Abarth.
+1 Mine too
No Honda or Toyota are match for those, they are plain boring.
Focus ST and Mazda Speed 3- yeah, those are fun.
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Originally Posted By: jimbrewer
I remember seeing one of my college professors in the late 1970's in a pretty new Ford, no more than a year or two old
I'm sure that many Japanese cars from that era are responsible for lots of kids finding they way on to back of milk cartons after they fell through the rotten floors.
Everything in the 70's rusted. Check out some Subaru's and Datsuns from that time, holy cow!
I remember seeing one of my college professors in the late 1970's in a pretty new Ford, no more than a year or two old
I'm sure that many Japanese cars from that era are responsible for lots of kids finding they way on to back of milk cartons after they fell through the rotten floors.
Everything in the 70's rusted. Check out some Subaru's and Datsuns from that time, holy cow!
Originally Posted By: TomYoung
Originally Posted By: Cubey
The problem with "American" cars is they are often made in Canada or Mexico, are rebranded foreign models or contain major components from foreign makes.
- I had an 88 Buick Regal coupe that was made in Canada
- Geo/Chevy Prizm was a rebranded Corolla
- Ford Ranger was a rebranded Mazda pickup
- Ford Escorts had a Mazda transmission (some had Mazda engines I think?)
I'm sure there's many more examples but those are the ones I am aware of off hand.
Your examples are all from long ago. Canada builds cars a stone's throw from the U.S./Canada border and Canadians buy what they build. Canada is a Western Democracy, a NAFTA trading partner and a superb neighbor and economic partner. Arkansas???
Agree with TomYoung & Disagree with Cubey!
Cubey, Canada & US are essentially one economy! The total combined trade between 2 countries is in excess of over 600 billion dollars/year and growing. No two countries since the dawn of man have traded (in a mutually beneficial way) this much with one another nor there are any two countries on this planet whose friendship can be compared to ours. Hope you will not throw Canada right in line with China!
Originally Posted By: Cubey
The problem with "American" cars is they are often made in Canada or Mexico, are rebranded foreign models or contain major components from foreign makes.
- I had an 88 Buick Regal coupe that was made in Canada
- Geo/Chevy Prizm was a rebranded Corolla
- Ford Ranger was a rebranded Mazda pickup
- Ford Escorts had a Mazda transmission (some had Mazda engines I think?)
I'm sure there's many more examples but those are the ones I am aware of off hand.
Your examples are all from long ago. Canada builds cars a stone's throw from the U.S./Canada border and Canadians buy what they build. Canada is a Western Democracy, a NAFTA trading partner and a superb neighbor and economic partner. Arkansas???
Agree with TomYoung & Disagree with Cubey!
Cubey, Canada & US are essentially one economy! The total combined trade between 2 countries is in excess of over 600 billion dollars/year and growing. No two countries since the dawn of man have traded (in a mutually beneficial way) this much with one another nor there are any two countries on this planet whose friendship can be compared to ours. Hope you will not throw Canada right in line with China!
Originally Posted By: bigt61
The quality gap the Japanese once had has disappeared. GM, Ford and Chrysler have all raised their games - and are making products people want to buy. Compared to a new Cruze, Focus or Dart, a Corolla looks and feels dated and cheap. Maybe the Corolla will last 200,000 miles, but pity the poor soul who has to drive it that long.
You keep telling yourself that...lol.
Let me break it down straight to the point.
Two vehicles I maintain- '03 Corolla & '03 Dodge Ram 1500
Mileage- '03 Corolla 275K '03 Dodge Ram 75K
Repairs/ Maintenance: '03 Corolla- 5 sets of plugs, 3 ATF pan drops and re-fills w/ new filters, 4 sets of tires, 1 PCV valve, numerous oil & filter changes, 02 sensors replaced, air filters, 1 set of brake pads, 1 set of rotors, 1 brake fluid flush, 1 cooling system flush.
EDIT: struts on all four corners replaced
I am amazed the stock tranny is still going strong.
Repairs/ Maintenance: '03 Dodge Ram- 02s replaced, catalytic converter replaced, complete front brake system replaced (rotors, pads, calipers- covered under factory warranty @ 11K) replaced alternator, replaced sliding rear window (inside latch broke... whole sliding glass had to be replaced!) 2 sets of plugs, plug wires replaced, gas cap replaced, NVLR pump hose replaced (evaporative system), power steering pump hose (one of them) replaced, 2 ATF pan drops w/ filters, numerous oil and filters, air filters, 1 differential fluid change.
I'm lucky, I did all the repairs except for the cat replacement and the front brakes under warranty. If I was paying someone to do the work... the Dodge would be GONE. I am amazed by one thing in the Dodge... it's still on the factory battery!
I'm not convinced that domestic 'quality' has kept pace with their design teams. The newer cars look 'better' but looking good and running good are two different things.
On the original topic, I'm glad Detroit is getting some of the young crowds attention. They need it.
The quality gap the Japanese once had has disappeared. GM, Ford and Chrysler have all raised their games - and are making products people want to buy. Compared to a new Cruze, Focus or Dart, a Corolla looks and feels dated and cheap. Maybe the Corolla will last 200,000 miles, but pity the poor soul who has to drive it that long.
You keep telling yourself that...lol.
Let me break it down straight to the point.
Two vehicles I maintain- '03 Corolla & '03 Dodge Ram 1500
Mileage- '03 Corolla 275K '03 Dodge Ram 75K
Repairs/ Maintenance: '03 Corolla- 5 sets of plugs, 3 ATF pan drops and re-fills w/ new filters, 4 sets of tires, 1 PCV valve, numerous oil & filter changes, 02 sensors replaced, air filters, 1 set of brake pads, 1 set of rotors, 1 brake fluid flush, 1 cooling system flush.
EDIT: struts on all four corners replaced
I am amazed the stock tranny is still going strong.
Repairs/ Maintenance: '03 Dodge Ram- 02s replaced, catalytic converter replaced, complete front brake system replaced (rotors, pads, calipers- covered under factory warranty @ 11K) replaced alternator, replaced sliding rear window (inside latch broke... whole sliding glass had to be replaced!) 2 sets of plugs, plug wires replaced, gas cap replaced, NVLR pump hose replaced (evaporative system), power steering pump hose (one of them) replaced, 2 ATF pan drops w/ filters, numerous oil and filters, air filters, 1 differential fluid change.
I'm lucky, I did all the repairs except for the cat replacement and the front brakes under warranty. If I was paying someone to do the work... the Dodge would be GONE. I am amazed by one thing in the Dodge... it's still on the factory battery!
I'm not convinced that domestic 'quality' has kept pace with their design teams. The newer cars look 'better' but looking good and running good are two different things.
On the original topic, I'm glad Detroit is getting some of the young crowds attention. They need it.
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My point was that people try to think of the big 3 as "USA made" when they aren't exclusively so.
"American made" tends to the term used which could mean N. America or S. America if you want to get technical about it, but "America" has come to mean USA.
"American made" tends to the term used which could mean N. America or S. America if you want to get technical about it, but "America" has come to mean USA.
Being at the bottom of the income scale, I have never bought a vehicle for more than $6000.. which was the F150 listed below.
I have owned a lot of different vehicles in only 8 years:
1997 E150 conversion - traded it in
1988 Regal (was in very poor shape.. was to save miles and gas
vs the van) - sold it to put the dough toward the next car
2003 Taurus wagon (van above was traded in toward this one) - Sold it to my mom later that year and took the next car as a partial trade
1991 Toyota Corolla - Got hit by an 18 year ol girl in a wal-mart parking lot at low speed... front right door could no longer be opened. Got over $1000 payout from her insurance and kept the car for a while after. Traded it in for $1000 off the next vehicle
1999 Ford F150 XLT extended cab flare side - Ran great, used no oil. Sold it after I got my motorhome.
1993 Ford Escort - bought it and rebuilt the engine. I'm not sure if I did something wrong in the block or if the rebuilt head I bought was bad. The engine burned oil badly after a short time and then began clicking really bad finally. Not sure what happened with it. Transmission's 4th gear disappeared after about 6 months of having it. Had it about a year and a half. Limped it to the junk yard and got rid of it. It has been in an accident where I t-boned a car that ran a stop sign.. but still was drivable. Had gotten over $1000 out of that lady's insurance and got $250 for it from the salvage card I took it to.
2000 Ford E150 cargo - bought it to do yard work out of pulling a trailer but gave up pretty quickly after getting stiffed on a job once (they refused to pay me the full balance of what they agreed). Also, I was called up to do yards. I'd show up within an hour or two to do the jobs and they denied they asked me to show up. Ran good, was in slightly rough shape and was a former rental. Sold it since i didn't need it after all.
1978 Dodge B300 Class B motorhome - What I have now.
I have also had Japanese scooters (had several Hondas, now have a Yamaha).. but then again, there's not really any American scooters to pick from besides very old ones from the 40s and prior.
Oh ... I did own one other foreign car.. a 73 VW Super Beetle but it had no engine and I sold it before I did anything to it (besides pull one seat and clean the inside some) due to my plans completely changing... ie: getting the motorhome and planning to hit the road.
I have owned a lot of different vehicles in only 8 years:
1997 E150 conversion - traded it in
1988 Regal (was in very poor shape.. was to save miles and gas
vs the van) - sold it to put the dough toward the next car
2003 Taurus wagon (van above was traded in toward this one) - Sold it to my mom later that year and took the next car as a partial trade
1991 Toyota Corolla - Got hit by an 18 year ol girl in a wal-mart parking lot at low speed... front right door could no longer be opened. Got over $1000 payout from her insurance and kept the car for a while after. Traded it in for $1000 off the next vehicle
1999 Ford F150 XLT extended cab flare side - Ran great, used no oil. Sold it after I got my motorhome.
1993 Ford Escort - bought it and rebuilt the engine. I'm not sure if I did something wrong in the block or if the rebuilt head I bought was bad. The engine burned oil badly after a short time and then began clicking really bad finally. Not sure what happened with it. Transmission's 4th gear disappeared after about 6 months of having it. Had it about a year and a half. Limped it to the junk yard and got rid of it. It has been in an accident where I t-boned a car that ran a stop sign.. but still was drivable. Had gotten over $1000 out of that lady's insurance and got $250 for it from the salvage card I took it to.
2000 Ford E150 cargo - bought it to do yard work out of pulling a trailer but gave up pretty quickly after getting stiffed on a job once (they refused to pay me the full balance of what they agreed). Also, I was called up to do yards. I'd show up within an hour or two to do the jobs and they denied they asked me to show up. Ran good, was in slightly rough shape and was a former rental. Sold it since i didn't need it after all.
1978 Dodge B300 Class B motorhome - What I have now.
I have also had Japanese scooters (had several Hondas, now have a Yamaha).. but then again, there's not really any American scooters to pick from besides very old ones from the 40s and prior.
Oh ... I did own one other foreign car.. a 73 VW Super Beetle but it had no engine and I sold it before I did anything to it (besides pull one seat and clean the inside some) due to my plans completely changing... ie: getting the motorhome and planning to hit the road.
At the end I'm 21 and I would honestly choose a Cadillac over a Lexus a Lincoln Over an Audi a Chevrolet over a BMW a Ford over a Volkswagen a Chrysler over a Mazda but you get the point I'll only support american brand cars. P.S my examples were just brands throw inn the comment not that I actually compare the two
I am sure the domestic branded offering are more appealing to youth for sure. However the sales figures of Civic and Corolla remain steady and both make 2 of 10 vehicles in the top sellers.
I think the Civic sells very well to twenty somethings. Corolla I think is something dad talks them into buying.
I think the Civic sells very well to twenty somethings. Corolla I think is something dad talks them into buying.
I owned a 2006 Cobalt, and it was a great car.
I would still have it if I had gotten AC when I was working out West.
When I moved back, the heat and humidity and having a kid on the way forced me to sell it. Alberta had much less humidity so it wasn't an issue.
Montreal is a sauna in the Summer!
Now, anytime anyone needs help buying a car, I force them to really think about it and test drive everything!
I would still have it if I had gotten AC when I was working out West.
When I moved back, the heat and humidity and having a kid on the way forced me to sell it. Alberta had much less humidity so it wasn't an issue.
Montreal is a sauna in the Summer!
Now, anytime anyone needs help buying a car, I force them to really think about it and test drive everything!
Originally Posted By: TomYoung
Corollas and Civics are not awful. Not even the severely dated current Corolla.
Driven enough and riden in enough to know they are awful. From the crummy interior design and whiny auto trans in the Civic to the low rent of the Corolla there is nothing compelling about thse cars.
Quote:
There is nothing wrong with any of these cars, but only a fool would choose a Spark over a Civic.
You are right. The correct comparison would be the Sonic, Cruze, or Focus to Civic. Each of which is better than the CIvic.
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I would like to point out that your wierd comparison is also blind to reliability data and to price.
I would like to point you to JD Powers latest dependability rankings where Honda is middle of the road in dependability. It's been that way for a few years now.
Hondas are nothing special - never have been, never will be.
Corollas and Civics are not awful. Not even the severely dated current Corolla.
Driven enough and riden in enough to know they are awful. From the crummy interior design and whiny auto trans in the Civic to the low rent of the Corolla there is nothing compelling about thse cars.
Quote:
There is nothing wrong with any of these cars, but only a fool would choose a Spark over a Civic.
You are right. The correct comparison would be the Sonic, Cruze, or Focus to Civic. Each of which is better than the CIvic.
Quote:
I would like to point out that your wierd comparison is also blind to reliability data and to price.
I would like to point you to JD Powers latest dependability rankings where Honda is middle of the road in dependability. It's been that way for a few years now.
Hondas are nothing special - never have been, never will be.
This younger American wanted a competitive smaller car that was at least assembled in the States using mostly American or developed-nation-made parts to support more of my fellow Americans and our democratic allies.
I agree with itguy08 about the 2012 Civic. Sub par vehicle.
However I had the pleasure of renting a 2013 Civic and it is substantially improved and competitive with the rental Cruze and Focus I have gotten recently. All good choices.
The Sonic is not in same class of car and (clients) pay the upgrade when I am offered that car again.
However I had the pleasure of renting a 2013 Civic and it is substantially improved and competitive with the rental Cruze and Focus I have gotten recently. All good choices.
The Sonic is not in same class of car and (clients) pay the upgrade when I am offered that car again.
Interestingly, the Ford C-Max competes directly with the Prius V. Both achieve similar EPA MPG numbers and both achieve similar "real-world" MPG's (of about 38)
But, the Ford is considered to the the nicer of the two, and is, in some ways, larger. (mostly in front leg room and width)
But, the Ford is considered to the the nicer of the two, and is, in some ways, larger. (mostly in front leg room and width)
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Interestingly, the Ford C-Max competes directly with the Prius V. Both achieve similar EPA MPG numbers and both achieve similar "real-world" MPG's (of about 38)
But, the Ford is considered to the the nicer of the two, and is, in some ways, larger. (mostly in front leg room and width)
Except Ford is lying("stretching") about EPA(47/47) figures of the C-MAX. Nice car irregardless.
Interestingly, the Ford C-Max competes directly with the Prius V. Both achieve similar EPA MPG numbers and both achieve similar "real-world" MPG's (of about 38)
But, the Ford is considered to the the nicer of the two, and is, in some ways, larger. (mostly in front leg room and width)
Except Ford is lying("stretching") about EPA(47/47) figures of the C-MAX. Nice car irregardless.
Originally Posted By: genynnc
Originally Posted By: bigt61
The quality gap the Japanese once had has disappeared. GM, Ford and Chrysler have all raised their games - and are making products people want to buy. Compared to a new Cruze, Focus or Dart, a Corolla looks and feels dated and cheap. Maybe the Corolla will last 200,000 miles, but pity the poor soul who has to drive it that long.
You keep telling yourself that...lol.
Let me break it down straight to the point.
Two vehicles I maintain- '03 Corolla & '03 Dodge Ram 1500
Mileage- '03 Corolla 275K '03 Dodge Ram 75K
Repairs/ Maintenance: '03 Corolla- 5 sets of plugs, 3 ATF pan drops and re-fills w/ new filters, 4 sets of tires, 1 PCV valve, numerous oil & filter changes, 02 sensors replaced, air filters, 1 set of brake pads, 1 set of rotors, 1 brake fluid flush, 1 cooling system flush.
EDIT: struts on all four corners replaced
I am amazed the stock tranny is still going strong.
Repairs/ Maintenance: '03 Dodge Ram- 02s replaced, catalytic converter replaced, complete front brake system replaced (rotors, pads, calipers- covered under factory warranty @ 11K) replaced alternator, replaced sliding rear window (inside latch broke... whole sliding glass had to be replaced!) 2 sets of plugs, plug wires replaced, gas cap replaced, NVLR pump hose replaced (evaporative system), power steering pump hose (one of them) replaced, 2 ATF pan drops w/ filters, numerous oil and filters, air filters, 1 differential fluid change.
I'm lucky, I did all the repairs except for the cat replacement and the front brakes under warranty. If I was paying someone to do the work... the Dodge would be GONE. I am amazed by one thing in the Dodge... it's still on the factory battery!
I'm not convinced that domestic 'quality' has kept pace with their design teams. The newer cars look 'better' but looking good and running good are two different things.
On the original topic, I'm glad Detroit is getting some of the young crowds attention. They need it.
You're comparing Chrysler - BY FAR the worst quality of the domestic brands to Toyota. That's not really a fair comparison. Compare Ford or GM.
Originally Posted By: bigt61
The quality gap the Japanese once had has disappeared. GM, Ford and Chrysler have all raised their games - and are making products people want to buy. Compared to a new Cruze, Focus or Dart, a Corolla looks and feels dated and cheap. Maybe the Corolla will last 200,000 miles, but pity the poor soul who has to drive it that long.
You keep telling yourself that...lol.
Let me break it down straight to the point.
Two vehicles I maintain- '03 Corolla & '03 Dodge Ram 1500
Mileage- '03 Corolla 275K '03 Dodge Ram 75K
Repairs/ Maintenance: '03 Corolla- 5 sets of plugs, 3 ATF pan drops and re-fills w/ new filters, 4 sets of tires, 1 PCV valve, numerous oil & filter changes, 02 sensors replaced, air filters, 1 set of brake pads, 1 set of rotors, 1 brake fluid flush, 1 cooling system flush.
EDIT: struts on all four corners replaced
I am amazed the stock tranny is still going strong.
Repairs/ Maintenance: '03 Dodge Ram- 02s replaced, catalytic converter replaced, complete front brake system replaced (rotors, pads, calipers- covered under factory warranty @ 11K) replaced alternator, replaced sliding rear window (inside latch broke... whole sliding glass had to be replaced!) 2 sets of plugs, plug wires replaced, gas cap replaced, NVLR pump hose replaced (evaporative system), power steering pump hose (one of them) replaced, 2 ATF pan drops w/ filters, numerous oil and filters, air filters, 1 differential fluid change.
I'm lucky, I did all the repairs except for the cat replacement and the front brakes under warranty. If I was paying someone to do the work... the Dodge would be GONE. I am amazed by one thing in the Dodge... it's still on the factory battery!
I'm not convinced that domestic 'quality' has kept pace with their design teams. The newer cars look 'better' but looking good and running good are two different things.
On the original topic, I'm glad Detroit is getting some of the young crowds attention. They need it.
You're comparing Chrysler - BY FAR the worst quality of the domestic brands to Toyota. That's not really a fair comparison. Compare Ford or GM.
Originally Posted By: rjundi
Except Ford is lying("stretching") about EPA(47/47) figures of the C-MAX. Nice car irregardless.
Those are EPA numbers, not from Ford. Should Ford post a window sticker that says to expect 38MPG in real world conditions?
The EPA says the Prius V gets 44MPG, and claims the C-Max gets 47. Both cars return 38 in real world conditions.
I'd say the EPA test is invalid, not Ford or Toyota. Also, EPA tests use 100% gasoline of a specification and energy content. Good luck finding that anywhere! Even "no ethanol" fuels may contain less energy than standard gasoline, due to winter and summer blending requirements.
Pump gas with 10% ethanol will result in a few MPG loss, due to lower energy content. As will certain seasonal blends.
Who's at fault again?
Except Ford is lying("stretching") about EPA(47/47) figures of the C-MAX. Nice car irregardless.
Those are EPA numbers, not from Ford. Should Ford post a window sticker that says to expect 38MPG in real world conditions?
The EPA says the Prius V gets 44MPG, and claims the C-Max gets 47. Both cars return 38 in real world conditions.
I'd say the EPA test is invalid, not Ford or Toyota. Also, EPA tests use 100% gasoline of a specification and energy content. Good luck finding that anywhere! Even "no ethanol" fuels may contain less energy than standard gasoline, due to winter and summer blending requirements.
Pump gas with 10% ethanol will result in a few MPG loss, due to lower energy content. As will certain seasonal blends.
Who's at fault again?
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Who's at fault again?
Except that the EPA does not do testing, the manufacturer is responsible.
Originally Posted By: fueleconomy.gov
Fuel economy is measured under controlled conditions in a laboratory using a standardized test procedure specified by federal law. Manufacturers test their own vehicles—usually pre-production prototypes—and report the results to EPA. EPA reviews the results and confirms about 10-15 percent of them through their own tests at the National Vehicles and Fuel Emissions Laboratory.
Who's at fault again?
Except that the EPA does not do testing, the manufacturer is responsible.
Originally Posted By: fueleconomy.gov
Fuel economy is measured under controlled conditions in a laboratory using a standardized test procedure specified by federal law. Manufacturers test their own vehicles—usually pre-production prototypes—and report the results to EPA. EPA reviews the results and confirms about 10-15 percent of them through their own tests at the National Vehicles and Fuel Emissions Laboratory.
I'm a fan of the domestics too. I'm in the "baby boomer" generation and just wasn't impressed with the import offerings. Only bought one in my life. My Challenger was made in Canada, but the folks in the great North Country buy a lot from us too. Silverado was assembled in Fort Wayne, IN, but not happy with the 65% American content. Truck and car have been flawless. I'm pretty impressed with that.
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Originally Posted By: MBS500
+1 Mine too
So far, I love my nerfed Abarth
No Honda or Toyota are match for those, they are plain boring.
Focus ST and Mazda Speed 3- yeah, those are fun.
My Mazdaspeed 3 had a few teething issues, but otherwise it has been totally reliable. That said, I've had it for going on eight years and I'm looking at something new and different to drive for my last two years of my current job. I kind of like the ST, but two things really turn me off:
1. Option bundling- Ford has adopted this from the Japanese, which means I have to buy a $4,400 option package to get HIDs and heated seats. At that point you have a $28,000 Focus- and at that price point Im thinking CPO 135i M Sport or an E46 M3.
2. Overboost function- cool on the street, but an unwanted variable on the track(whatever I get will be the car I use when I instruct at HPDEs). Will the car go into overboost on the exit of turn 3? Maybe- depending on how much time has passed since it was last activated...
+1 Mine too
No Honda or Toyota are match for those, they are plain boring.
Focus ST and Mazda Speed 3- yeah, those are fun.
My Mazdaspeed 3 had a few teething issues, but otherwise it has been totally reliable. That said, I've had it for going on eight years and I'm looking at something new and different to drive for my last two years of my current job. I kind of like the ST, but two things really turn me off:
1. Option bundling- Ford has adopted this from the Japanese, which means I have to buy a $4,400 option package to get HIDs and heated seats. At that point you have a $28,000 Focus- and at that price point Im thinking CPO 135i M Sport or an E46 M3.
2. Overboost function- cool on the street, but an unwanted variable on the track(whatever I get will be the car I use when I instruct at HPDEs). Will the car go into overboost on the exit of turn 3? Maybe- depending on how much time has passed since it was last activated...
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