All Weather Tires for Crosstrek?

[IndyIan]

So enlighten us, those who do not know, what AWD has to do with two MOST important aspects of winter performing vehicle: stopping and handling? How many people died bcs. their car did not go forward fast enough?

To me it always feels like the AWD is partially engaged, so it may act a little bit like true 4wd where the axles have to rotate at the same speed, which helps the driver approach threshold braking without engaging ABS? But its a pretty small effect on the Outback, as I find its very average at stopping once the fronts start doing the grip and slide ABS dance...
If you go play around in a true 4wd vehicle in the snow, you will find you can stop shorter more easily in 4wd than in 2wd without engaging ABS as much, at the expense of possibly having the rear end move around on you as the rear are under rotating as much as the fronts, which never happens without a mechanical fixed linkage, as a manufacturer would always over brake the fronts wheels just for a safety margin and most part time AWD systems disengage the AWD to let the ABS and stability control do its thing.

 

[SeaJay]

Sigh…another Subaru driver who believes that AWD helps them stop and turn.

Yet somehow I survived all of those winters of stopping and turning.

 

[AJW001]

Pretty close… I am a Nokian fan.

WRG4 currently on the 2004 XC90 (in Boston)
WRG4 currently on the 2002 V70XC (in VB)

WRG3 on the Tundra for quite a while. Bought the truck in Colorado. Hated the OEM Bridgestone Alenza in the snow. Took them off at 15,000 miles. It has Michelin LTX on it now, because I couldn’t find Nokian locally three years ago when I wore the WRG3 out.

I’ve had many sets of Hakkapelliittas over the years. All truly great in the snow. My son has Hakkapelliittas on his 2001 V70 in Vermont.

But I got a good deal on Continental Viking Contact 7s last week, so the XC90 will be getting those. The Nokian options for that car weren’t in stock, so…

Absolutely, why not? After all, they're made in the USA (Dayton, Tennessee). That's a big plus in my book.

 

[krzyss]

Yet somehow I survived all of those winters of stopping and turning.

But not thanks to AWD.

Krzyś

 

[edyvw]

Yet somehow I survived all of those winters of stopping and turning.

A lot of us did that in FWD and RWD. So what does that mean?
I see every winter mostly Subaru’s and JEEP’s being primary vehicles in the ditch.

 

[edyvw]

To me it always feels like the AWD is partially engaged, so it may act a little bit like true 4wd where the axles have to rotate at the same speed, which helps the driver approach threshold braking without engaging ABS? But its a pretty small effect on the Outback, as I find its very average at stopping once the fronts start doing the grip and slide ABS dance...
If you go play around in a true 4wd vehicle in the snow, you will find you can stop shorter more easily in 4wd than in 2wd without engaging ABS as much, at the expense of possibly having the rear end move around on you as the rear are under rotating as much as the fronts, which never happens without a mechanical fixed linkage, as a manufacturer would always over brake the fronts wheels just for a safety margin and most part time AWD systems disengage the AWD to let the ABS and stability control do its thing.

AWD is always partially engaged, on most vehicles. Even on those that have very simple AWD. That is beyond point. AWD is absolutely irrelevant if torque is not transferred to the surface, and that is ALL about tires. On Hoosier Pass here in CO i pulled Toyota Land Cruiser with VW CC up the pass a bit (on the road) as guys tires were almost nonexistent. He might had uber capable 4WD, but not having anything meaningful to transfer torque, that drive becomes irrelevant.
And no, AWD won’t have better braking as all vehicles (maybe somewhere there is some model that comes with different brakes) have same brake system on two axle drive as well as on 4 axle drive, except 4 axles are heavier.

 

[Astro14]

Yet somehow I survived all of those winters of stopping and turning.

So did I.

In RWD cars.

So, either I am a far better driver than you, or AWD makes no difference in stopping and turning.

 

[Sequoiasoon]

I'm considering Bridgestone Dueler H/L 422 Ecopia for my 4-wd Highlander.

That is like playing Russian roulette with a Glock with full mag and 1 in the chamber.

Probably some of the worst rated tires overall. They are round and black though.

 

[totegoat]

A different view than one above.

The Bridgestone Dueler H/L 422 Ecopia is one of the best all-season touring tires on the market today. It delivers outstanding dry traction as well as exceptional wet traction. Also, its steering response is fast and accurate, handling is great and the ride is smooth, quiet and comfortable.

 

[Sequoiasoon]

A different view than one above.

The Bridgestone Dueler H/L 422 Ecopia is one of the best all-season touring tires on the market today. It delivers outstanding dry traction as well as exceptional wet traction. Also, its steering response is fast and accurate, handling is great and the ride is smooth, quiet and comfortable.

Read the reviews not the marketing.
https://bridgestone-dueler-h-l-422-ecopia

The good news is that if you are not happy you'll be able to get a different choice in a short time. They are also expensive as compared to performance/value on other tires. As they say YMMV.

I've had various Bridgestone Dueler and Passenger Ecopia versions that came on vehicles. They were all the same issue. Also had a set of Conti CrossContact Sport the same way. Good dry/wet, short life, poor winter.

Not a brand thing either. I have used Blizzaks with good experience just fast wear. My Kids and Wife are on Conti Winter tires and my son will probably be for 3 season soon.

 

[Astro14]

A different view than one above.

The Bridgestone Dueler H/L 422 Ecopia is one of the best all-season touring tires on the market today. It delivers outstanding dry traction as well as exceptional wet traction. Also, its steering response is fast and accurate, handling is great and the ride is smooth, quiet and comfortable.

The Dueler HL Alenza that came OEM on my Tundra, a very similar tire, with identical claims, were downright awful in the snow. The truck was in Colorado at the time. Plenty of chances to try them out.

I took them off the truck with 10/32” remaining tread. They were that bad.

Bridgestone makes good tires, but you need to trust the reviews, not the marketing, because they say this about the HL Alenza I had:

And the snow performance was genuinely awful.

 

[buster]

Having drived an outback for 7 or 8 winter seasons in the northeast, I found that just about any all season tire on that car performed very, very well on ice and snow. Presumably there are some better, but it is hard to go wrong with that version of AWD.

Great AWD system. Put good tires on them and their fantastic in bad weather.

Watched many guys in RWD cars struggle to make it up hills in central NY State. FWD with decent tires is sufficient. AWD with great tires is even better.

Unfortunately as most know many cars come with tires designed more around fuel economy than traction. That was even the case with the Toyota Tacoma TRD Pro believe it or not.

 

[buster]

RWD and FWD is still insufficient on the beach, even with good tires. They only allow 4WD vehicles on the beach.

 

[Sequoiasoon]

RWD and FWD is still insufficient on the beach, even with good tires. They only allow 4WD vehicles on the beach.

View attachment 177326

Looks like he didn't air down....

 

[AJW001]

Take into consideration that WRG4 is actually sold as snow tires on some markets in Europe. They are more geared toward snow tires than all-weather tires. So, if snow performance is a priority, those would probably be the best of the tires mentioned. I bet in dry and wet; they will lack performance compared to CC2 etc.

This seems to be the case based on Canada's Kal-Tire subjective tests.

Don't know if the two tires will show up here side-by-side, but nevertheless, you can compare them on their website. The WRG4 is marketed as "low rolling resistance".

Sites-Kaltire-Site

www.kaltire.com

 

[Kalle.J]

Take into consideration that WRG4 is actually sold as snow tires on some markets in Europe. They are more geared toward snow tires than all-weather tires. So, if snow performance is a priority, those would probably be the best of the tires mentioned. I bet in dry and wet; they will lack performance compared to CC2 etc.

Hmmm I think you are mixing WRG4 up with Nokian WR A4 which is/was more of a "Northern Continental European" winter tyre.

We have Nokian Seasonproof and Weatherproof as all-season, and Nokian D4/Snowproof as more northern winter alternatives compared to WR A4. Then Hakkapelitta as real nordic winters.

Not even US Michelin CC2 and European CC2 have the same compound. So I doubt WRG4 is a copy of WR A4.

"Nokian recently introduced its latest all-weather tire, the WR G4, which is a modified version of the company's European performance winter tire, the WR A4."

"In North America, of course, you have to put a bit more emphasis on mileage and comfort," said Seppälä. "It's the interior noise, ride quality and treadwear that's better on the WR G4. The overall market for performance winter products in North America is quite small. For this reason, Nokian Tyres introduced the WR family of products in North America with similar characteristics found in Performance Winter products, but with modified compounds to accommodate using these tires 12 months out of the year."

 

[edyvw]

Hmmm I think you are mixing WRG4 up with Nokian WR A4 which is/was more of a "Northern Continental European" winter tyre.

We have Nokian Seasonproof and Weatherproof as all-season, and Nokian D4/Snowproof as more northern winter alternatives compared to WR A4. Then Hakkapelitta as real nordic winters.

Not even US Michelin CC2 and European CC2 have the same compound. So I doubt WRG4 is a copy of WR A4.

"Nokian recently introduced its latest all-weather tire, the WR G4, which is a modified version of the company's European performance winter tire, the WR A4."

"In North America, of course, you have to put a bit more emphasis on mileage and comfort," said Seppälä. "It's the interior noise, ride quality and treadwear that's better on the WR G4. The overall market for performance winter products in North America is quite small. For this reason, Nokian Tyres introduced the WR family of products in North America with similar characteristics found in Performance Winter products, but with modified compounds to accommodate using these tires 12 months out of the year."

I mentioned somewhere it is knock-off.
Will it have some changes in compound? Possibly. Different exploitation, climate, customer habits etc.
It is still aggressive for typical all weather tire. And that fits some customers.

 

[Quattro Pete]

See what is on sale Black Friday, then shop for the best deal.

Right now there is a $110 off a set of Michelins deal available, which makes the CC2 more attractive, but I might wait to see if Black Friday offers other deals, as you suggested.

I'm still curious about Bridgestone Weatherpeak. Hard to find any tests on them, especially winter-specific.

 

[edyvw]

Right now there is a $110 off a set of Michelins deal available, which makes the CC2 more attractive, but I might wait to see if Black Friday offers other deals, as you suggested.

I'm still curious about Bridgestone Weatherpeak. Hard to find any tests on them, especially winter-specific.

I found that Bridgestone is behind other premium brands in “ALL” category. They always have one or two performance variables lacking big time. I mean, i use their snow tires, don’t get me wrong. But usually they are really good when it comes to season specific tire.

 

[andrew_j]

Right now there is a $110 off a set of Michelins deal available, which makes the CC2 more attractive, but I might wait to see if Black Friday offers other deals, as you suggested.

I'm still curious about Bridgestone Weatherpeak. Hard to find any tests on them, especially winter-specific.

I wonder if Bridgestone in their buying up part of Nokian tyres (shares) got some technical knowledge acquired on 4 season tires that work well in winter?