all cars have backup cameras in 2018

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Originally Posted By: MCompact
Originally Posted By: Miller88
My complaint is I'll now have to spend another $500 on a vehicle.


Exactly; and-like TPMS-it's the Nanny state stepping in to protect the careless/ignorant/incompetent from the consequences of their stupidity.

Isn't a digital gauge cluster cheaper than mechanical one now? And even an aftermarket system including a screen is $50-60, so including one into a car with a digital dash isn't going to cost much at all...
 
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Originally Posted By: MCompact
Originally Posted By: Miller88
My complaint is I'll now have to spend another $500 on a vehicle.


Exactly; and-like TPMS-it's the Nanny state stepping in to protect the careless/ignorant/incompetent from the consequences of their stupidity.

Isn't a digital gauge cluster cheaper than mechanical one now? And even an aftermarket system including a screen is $50-60, so including one into a car with a digital dash isn't going to cost much at all...


Adding a screen and a camera is going to cost money. And no manufacturer is going to do it free of cost.

I guarantee it will add at least $1000 to cheaper vehicles like the Nissan Versa.

All because a few disconnected soccer dads and soccer moms on their phone backed over their kids while not paying attention, we all have to pay extra.

Same reason for TMPS. A few disconnected people have no clue that they are driving and have NO business driving ... so I now have to pay for TPMS on a new vehicle.

Asinine. Hurting the majority because we have a few people too incompetent, without the mental capacity, to safely operate their vehicle in a coherent manner.
 
Can't fix stupid. What they should do is have forward facing cameras. That way there would no argument on accidents....along with the rear facing.
 
Originally Posted By: datech
I read that modern pilots rely so much on automated equipment they are barely capable to fly unaided anymore, although they said american pilots train better than foreign pilots.

Tell that to Astro and see how far you get. As for having "read" such a thing, I hear that journalists these days are so lazy and uniformed that they cannot write an article without Google and a spell checker.
 
When it breaks, will it be required to be fixed? Some states require TPMS to be working in order to pass safety inspection.
 
I think I'm somewhat indifferent on the legislation. I'm usually against "yet more regulations" but really automobiles have piles of stuff required, some of which I'm not a fan of, camera included. Don't want to pay for, see only minimal gain. But I realize that once they start making millions of these systems per year the cost will come down. The system will get cheaper.

I'm more worried about incidental design impacts. Instead of a standalone LCD this likely will be integrated into a touchscreen which handles HVAC controls. Would make sense. Right up until the LCD breaks and now you can't adjust the temp inside the car.

I'm curious, will they make it easy to tap into this system? Until I got my truck I was long in the habit of just swiveling around in my seat to backup. I don't know what my range of vision is, but it's probably 270 degrees *and* my camera (IOW eyes) are likely located much closer to the front of the car than a rear facing camera installed into the bumper/licenseplate/high mount 3rd brake light. Meaning, I can easily scan a large area. Will this camera have a large enough view that I can stay looking forward, scanning the LCD and side mirrors? Or can I hang a secondary LCD elsewhere in the cabin?

Dumb question: as I back up the front of the vehicle tends to travel in an arc, and kick out if I have to make a turn. How is this camera going to prevent the front of the car running something over?
 
Originally Posted By: supton
I'm more worried about incidental design impacts. Instead of a standalone LCD this likely will be integrated into a touchscreen which handles HVAC controls. Would make sense. Right up until the LCD breaks and now you can't adjust the temp inside the car.


There are at least four ways to implement this.

1) Have the video screen be integral to a large touch screen where you also access radio and/or HVAC functions. Somewhat common across the board. Cars like the Chevy Spark or Sonic with the smartphone-capable dash displays would likely fit into this category.

2) Have an additional and smaller video screen just for the display of the video and some music function, but without touch capability. Some Hondas are doing this, such as the current Civic and CR-V (and perhaps others as well).

3) Have the video display be integral to the instrument cluster, kind of how the Chrysler Pacifica had the navigation display set within a large semi-circular speedometer. Probably not common.

4) Have a video rear view mirror, and display the backup camera signal in the rear view mirror. This is how I have it in our CR-V.

By the way, Gentex's stock (GNTX) got a nice little boost lately... They are a prominent manufacturer of rear view mirror and backup camera equipment.
 
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl

Those make sense.

Signaling your intentions to other drivers...reasonable.

Backup for park pawl/leaving in gear...reasonable.

Safety glass for when wrecks happen (they always will)...reasonable.

Needing a camera to pull off a basic driving function...dumb as [censored].


None of those required features make sense! Turn signals? Not needed, just signal with your hands like people used to do. Parking brake? Not needed, just park against a curb like people used to do. Safety glass? Not needed, just wear goggles with open windows like people used to do.

Obviously I'm being facetious here, but the point is that each of those items that most of us consider to be reasonable today were very much "cutting edge" or deemed unnecessary many years ago. Vehicle design requirements (and regulations) have evolved along with the design of the vehicles themselves. As closed cabins became more common, yes, turn signals were required. As glass became more common, yes, safety class was required. Enter the age of very stylized vehicles, often with vast blind spots (or jacked up trucks with large tailgates), and a driver assist is required.

Step on to any Army installation and observe a motor pool. Every tactical vehicle is backed-up with the aid of a human spotter. Heck, even when maneuvering AT ALL within a confined space, even going forwards, a spotter is used. It's because the blind spots on larger vehicles are often pretty large. We don't have spotters to help us out.

OTR truck drivers are trained to maneuver such vehicles, and in many cases (though not all), their area of operations is more open parking areas, warehouse areas, etc. OTR truck drivers are not usually faced with maneuvering around bouncing balls and kids at play, as many passenger car drivers are. But smaller trucks often have them. Take a look at the back of every Waste Management trash truck: there's a backup camera! That's because they often DO operate around other vehicles, other people, in neighborhoods and car parks, etc.

I think it's a little unfair to say that drivers should "be less stupid and actually drive". I'm not saying that anyone here actually said that, but that seems to be the sentiment of some. Drivers from 100 years ago would say that we're all a bunch of spoiled pansies, with our "electric start" cars and our "chokeless fuel injection" and our "solid state ignitions". Back then, they'd re-lap the valves on their flathead on a Friday evening after work. To those drivers who really did have to operate a machine, none of us are "real drivers".

I've become indifferent on the legislation piece. I was against this being a federal regulation, and still generally am. But I also agree that with the direction the vehicle styling is going, and with the increased general move towards more urbanized areas and crowded car parks, some type of driver assist is likely required. And having a buddy stand outside to spot you isn't always practical, especially when it's just you and your 5 year old.
 
IMO the difference lies when the lifecycle performance and repair cost is not commensurate with the longevity of the vehicle. Others may keep them shorter, but I have 30 year old vehicles that I can drive cross country tomorrow. Laminated glass is still the same. Ditto for passive exterior mirrors or turn signals.

Do I have any faith that a rear camera, it's screen and it's other components will work, or be repairable in thirty years? Doubt it.

This is the issue with most of the new electronic doodads found on cars.
 
It's a shame that we're raising a generation of people who can't even back a vehicle without electronic assistance.

Whenever I get into a vehicle I know exactly what's on all 6 sides of the vehicle (front, back, left, right, top and bottom). As I'm getting settled into the car (or pickup) I keep an eye on the mirrors and I know if something changes in the sight picture around the vehicle. When I park in the grocery store lot I manage to park in a manner so that I drive straight into the parking spot, and when I leave I drive straight out of the parking spot. No cameras needed and I don't even have to put the vehicle in reverse. Since it usually involves parking further out from the door of the business I have the added advantage of a little extra exercise.

I've hook up trailers to pickups hundreds of times, and I've always managed to put the hitch within an inch or so of the trailer tongue. No camera needed.

I've parallel parked hundreds of time, never needed a camera or any sort of assistance to get the wheels a couple inches from the curb, and I've never banged into the vehicle in front or the vehicle in back.

When I do have to back a vehicle and I'm not 100% positive about what may be behind it, I actually get out and look. Then I stay aware of the surroundings to make sure nothing changes. No camera or any other sort of gizmos needed-just a little common sense and taking responsibility for the vehicle that I'm operating.

Cameras are a crutch for people who aren't responsible enough to maintain an awareness of their surroundings while they drive. While I understand the need for them, I'd rather see drivers actually trained to operate a vehicle safely, rather than let them rely on more electronic toys.
 
I think they can add these cameras pretty easily and cheaply.

You can get a chrome book laptop retail price around $200 and it has a big LED screen and built in web cam, which are the main components you need. Those kits to add a rear camera are often way less than $100.

Some guy told me most big cargo vans/bread trucks have had them standard for a number of years now.

One advantage is they not only see around A pillars they can see below the belt line/ bumper. That capability would be helpful even in front of some vehicles.
 
I've contemplated adding one to my truck, for hooking up the trailer. My wife is pretty bright but... we haven't worked out quite yet hooking up the camper. And I don't always have her around to help either. It would also help her drive the truck under normal circumstances; she does not usually drive the truck (actually neither of us do, but I drive it vastly more often) and so it's more of a challenge for her.

There is some cheap stuff out there. I spent some time looking, just never got to a point of buying stuff.

Hey, that reminds me of something I wanted to do: put a quick disconnect connector onto the backup camera, and then install a second camera on the back end of the trailer. Or a switch; basically to fix the blindspot I'd have when pulling a travel trailer. The travel trailer plans have fallen by the wayside, but I am reminded of how I wanted to be able to watch what was behind the trailer *while going forward* also.
 
Originally Posted By: supton
When it breaks, will it be required to be fixed? Some states require TPMS to be working in order to pass safety inspection.


Excellent point. And in a lot of cases the screen is tied to other vehicle function/controls, so aftermarket offerings will be very limited at least for the initial time period.

Most people can’t spend $20-30 bucks for an oil change and cry how expensive the brake jobs and tires are, I can already see people cursing these features in the near future when they have to spend money to replace the stupid screen just to pass safety inspection.
 
Originally Posted By: supton
Dumb question: as I back up the front of the vehicle tends to travel in an arc, and kick out if I have to make a turn. How is this camera going to prevent the front of the car running something over?


supton- yes. How will you avoid running something over with the front of the vehicle when backing up? The same way you do when you backup without a camera now, but the backup cam will make it easier. Because you will be facing forward when you're looking at the backup camera on your LCD, and you would need to look forward to monitor kickout anyway, there will be less head turning involved.
 
Originally Posted By: RN89

Tell that to the parent's that ACCIDENTALLY backed over their own children where a backup camera could have possibly prevented that accident.


How about those parents actually raise their kids with the common sense to not be behind a vehicle backing up or knowing where their kids are actually at before backing up?
 
Originally Posted By: Hootbro

How about those parents actually raise their kids with the common sense to not be behind a vehicle backing up or knowing where their kids are actually at before backing up?


Are you seriously advocating that parents have a sense of responsibility?
Shame!!! That is the Nanny State's job...
 
Originally Posted By: moving2
... and you would need to look forward to monitor kickout anyway, there will be less head turning involved.


Thank you for proving my point that people will just stare at the screen without checking their surroundings. Next order of business will be to put cameras all around.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: moving2
Originally Posted By: supton
Dumb question: as I back up the front of the vehicle tends to travel in an arc, and kick out if I have to make a turn. How is this camera going to prevent the front of the car running something over?


supton- yes. How will you avoid running something over with the front of the vehicle when backing up? The same way you do when you backup without a camera now, but the backup cam will make it easier. Because you will be facing forward when you're looking at the backup camera on your LCD, and you would need to look forward to monitor kickout anyway, there will be less head turning involved.


How do you figure that? I've only seen a couple of systems, but the LCD is in the center stack. I could easily see people just staring at the screen, not watching the front end of the car at all. I won't claim everyone is stupid, but ever notice how people space out while watching TV?

I see your point about it being easier to watch the front end, less head turning; but I think we'll wind up hearing about how that arc now causes xyz in damages on the news.
 
The trend is to have an informational screen on moderns cars and unfortunately sometimes controls.

I don't see the large issue in having it flip to a backup camera that costs barely anything to make if part of car design.

In thirty years like some poster stated who cares about replacing it. Can you replace a radio from your 1984 MB. Nope.... Radio is non-essential as back up camera is.
 
Originally Posted By: rjundi
Can you replace a radio from your 1984 MB. Nope.... Radio is non-essential as back up camera is.


Actually you can. There is a substantial amount of rebuild and refurbishment capability, including taking my radio right up to Becker in north Jersey and getting them to repair it.

I have no such faith on a 2018 vehicle, regardless of make. AND, youre making a big assumption to the fact that a backup camera is considered non-essential, given that it is a safety feature. Note the comments above about TPMS, also "non-essential".

And again, as more capability gets built into the screen only, the more liability exists with it.
 
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