Alchohol/drug addictions

[hate2work]

Originally Posted By: JoeWGauss
The fact is that NOBODY forced that first drink or drug down that persons throat.

This society is increasingly allowing folks NOT to take PERSONAL RESPONSBILITY for THEIR actions.

An addict is an "addict" because that person WILLFULLY took actions that led to that outcome.


Joe, I agree with your principles, but you're offbase within the confines of this conversation. The horse is already out of the barn. Now they have to deal with the reality that he is addicted and go from there. Would you go up to an obese person and tell them they were foolish for not taking personal responsibility for their actions? I hope not, and the same thing applies here.

 

[hattaresguy]

Yes my sister and its brutal. Once they hit rock bottom they either die or get better, but most of the time they die.

I know it sounds callous but after having gone through it with a family member, whenever I run into someone with a bad addiction I run the other way as fast as possible. I wish them the best but I just can't deal with it again.

 

[doitmyself]

My wife's brother died this past spring due to complications from addictions. He was 54.

Many of the responses above are excellent, but I find the comments about enabling most revealing.

My wife's/brother's dad was most devastated by the death. He was THE most persistent enabler over the past 25 years (his son, his blood).

He no longer talks to us, the grandchildren, and great grand children......it's our fault for not helping more.

To Oilboy123, I say to seek help for yourselves in dealing with the possible outcomes of this terrible situation. Best wishes.

 

[JoeWGauss]

Originally Posted By: hate2work
[ I hope not, and the same thing applies here.


Time and time again I see these people "addicts" that play the sympathy card because it allows them to continue doing what they do, and many times these dangers to society end up killing or injuring other innocent people and damaging a lot of property too.

On the contrary I would tell them ONCE that they need to stop what they are doing, and that is all. After that it is ALL on them.


I don't really care about the addict . I care about the innocent people that come into contact with them and suffer because of it.

I really think the addict should be treated as a common criminal. Jail would be the best place for most of them.

 

[Spazdog]

Oh yeah....I have a family member with drug and alcohol addiction.

To top it off, he's independantly wealthy and was able to retire at 50. Now he has nothing to do all day but drink, pop vicodins and Xanax far beyond therapeutic levels and call me at inappropriate hours with every little problem he has with whatever one of his brothers or his sister (my wife) said or did. (which is usually much ado about nothing)

I don't coddle him. I tell him the truth. That his problems, his lack of ability to have a meaningful relationship with any woman, his complete lack of any relationship with his children, the six months he spent in county jails were all related to his insistance on being [feces]faced from the time he wakes up to the time he passes out.

He's well aware that he's an addict. He uses it as an excuse for his bad behavior. "I'm an alcoholic...that's why I do these things...I have to drink or I'll die. I could have a seizure, delirium tremens...etc..."

He was forced to clean up during those stints in jail and he managed to go about 72 hrs in a rehab facility once before leaving immediately to go get [messed]up

His big threat is that he was "writing me out of his will". I told him many times, "I don't care. I didn't earn that money."

I've seen how much he drinks in a day just to "get by". It's an obscene amount. 30 Busches and about a half of a 1.75 liter bottle of Mohawk Vodka. (and he's wealthy drinking the most horrible booze...might as well drink washer fluid) And when you factor in the Vicodin, Tylenol4, and Xanax with that obscene amount of alcohol I honestly don't know how he's not dead or on a liver transplant list.

I take the calls. He's family. Fortunately he's family in another state. He does not darken my doorstep with his self-made problems.

 

[Drew99GT]

Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Oh yeah....I have a family member with drug and alcohol addiction.

To top it off, he's independantly wealthy


That's got to be the worst nightmare for people who love him. From what I've seen, it's a lot easier to get someone to make the choice to get treatment and truly straighten themselves out if they don't have anything and they've been enabled and that enabling comes to an abrupt stop. Then they're faced with the fork in the road and it becomes a choice of where to go from here.

If you can afford to be an addict and live without any help, the choice becomes much harder.

 

[TooManyWheels]

Originally Posted By: Spazdog

He was forced to clean up during those stints in jail and he managed to go about 72 hrs in a rehab facility once before leaving immediately to go get [messed]up


The brain behavior is changed by the addictive substances and it is only by years of continuous sobriety that it is able to return to normal, which is of course unlikely since it itself is trying to maintain the addictive behavior.

 

[Steve S]

Originally Posted By: beanoil
Originally Posted By: Maximus1966
Originally Posted By: Steve S
Usually it is due to lack of self control


Bingo!

So an addict isn't an addict if the drug use is within his control, or under control? C'mon. Seriously? Often an addict doesn't know how he got to where he is, and will usually say it IS under control.
How do addicts who are [clean and sober] get that way? They have make the choice.

 

[LS2JSTS]

Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Oh yeah....I have a family member with drug and alcohol addiction.

To top it off, he's independantly wealthy


That's got to be the worst nightmare for people who love him. From what I've seen, it's a lot easier to get someone to make the choice to get treatment and truly straighten themselves out if they don't have anything and they've been enabled and that enabling comes to an abrupt stop. Then they're faced with the fork in the road and it becomes a choice of where to go from here.

If you can afford to be an addict and live without any help, the choice becomes much harder.


Agreed.

Hitting the Lotto would be like a death sentence for most addicts.

 

[eljefino]

Originally Posted By: JoeWGauss
The fact is that NOBODY forced that first drink or drug down that persons throat.

This society is increasingly allowing folks NOT to take PERSONAL RESPONSBILITY for THEIR actions.

An addict is an "addict" because that person WILLFULLY took actions that led to that outcome.


This is similar to the idea that you can hate someone on welfare into reforming and getting a job. If it's not working, there isn't enough shame, and it needs turning up.

I know a troubled soul... not terribly into drugs, just a guy with a high tolerance for pain. Sleeping in his car for weeks, losing tens of pounds of body fat. There is just a lack of the "click of a relay" in his head related to consequences.

Alcoholism (and likely, drug abuse) affects 1/10 or so of the population differently from the rest of us. (The "addictive personality" ((not a clinical term))) It's just enough that "we all know a guy" but not enough to make the dangerous behavior popular enough for effective reform. (Nor should it be? We tried it 85 years ago.)

 

[Rhymingmechanic]

oilboy,

I empathize with the tough spot you're in--addiction might be harder on family members because they can actually see what's happening.

There have been some good suggestions so far. AA and NA can teach you about addiction (and recovery from it), but there are programs for family members also: Al-Anon and Nar-anon. They focus on how family members can avoid getting wrapped up in the addiction and "enabling" it to continue.

When it comes down to it, your brother will only change when he is ready. You can't force it. But you can define the difference between help--to recover when he's ready--and enabling him to keep doing what he's always done. You could help him find a treatment program and drive him there, for example, but paying for his stay in treatment is not wise. (That probably rules out the spa vacation type places.)

You didn't say much about your brother's experience and the consequences he's had, but generally the best time to intervene is when he's gotten into some trouble. At 51, chances are he already knows where the help is. You could contact your local/county mental health center to see what treatment options they offer. Then you'll have that information if and when he asks for help.

Best to you and your family.

 

[Mystic]

Well, I have to agree with what JoeWGauss said. People decide to use alcohol and drugs. People make decisions to become alcoholics and drug addicts.

I never accepted that alcoholism was a 'disease.' Or some inherited condition. All it takes is willpower to stop drinking. Once a person becomes a really serious alcoholic it is going to be hard to stop. But plenty of people have managed to overcome alcoholism. I personally started to develop some problems with drinking but I made a decision to stop and it was easy enough to do. I have not been seriously intoxicated for several years.

It can be a lot harder to stop using some kinds of drugs, like Heroin. But people have overcome that too.

Our society makes too many excuses for some people. And our society to some extent glorifies alcoholism and drug use. Alcoholism is not a disease. If you think it is than name the virus that causes it.

I have seen a lot of young people being destroyed by Meth. A young woman in a few years can go from looking like a homecoming queen to being unrecognizable. Just say no. It is not cool or 'in' to use drugs. It is cool to be a healthly human being.

 

[Drew99GT]

Originally Posted By: Mystic
All it takes is willpower to stop drinking.


If it was that easy, there'd be no AA and treatment centers would be out of business.

Will power alone will not stop most chronic long term addicts and the facts prove it. It usually requires LONG term treatment and a consequential intervention from loving friends and family.

If you made the decision to just up and quit without any withdrawal or serious health symptoms, you likely were not physically addicted to alcohol.

Someone who drinks to excess every day for 10 years who just up and quits would likely have to be admitted to the hospital from health problems associated with withdrawal. In fact, it's not uncommon for people to keel over and die a few months after quitting long term heavy drinking cold turkey because your body becomes so physically altered from the alcohol.

 

[Pop_Rivit]

I have little tolerance for an addict.

It's easy to make excuses and continue to enable them, and it's the lazy way out to pretend that they shouldn't be forced to live with the decisions they've made. We've all made mistakes and we've all had to live with the ramifications of those mistakes. An addict made the decision to start abusing a substance and they should be held accountable.

While different drugs certainly may cause a physical dependency, you can't tell me that an addict doesn't know what he/she is doing is wrong, and you can't tell me that they don't know they're damaging themselves as well as family and friends. I think everyone deserves a second chance and I wholly support someone who does, but if someone is so mentally weak that they refuse to face their situation and change it then I have no time whatsoever for them.

I think as a society we have failed to make people responsible for their actions, and until we hold them accountable too many people will take the lazy way out.

 

[CivicFan]

Originally Posted By: Steve S
Usually it is due to lack of self control . You have to try but untill the person has the want and will to quit,,,,


This is a big misconception about substance dependence or substance abuse.

OP's brother might need some professional help by an addictionologist. However, it will be very difficult to convince him because unless he realizes that he is addicted, he might not see the situation as a problem.

 

[01rangerxl]

Unfortunately it might take some major consequences for him to want to quit. When you're addicted to something you don't want to give it up willingly unless there are clear, harsh consequences. I hate to say it, but if you try to push him towards treatment while he's still able to maintain his habit, he's going to fight it. He will likely be much more open to treatment for his addiction after arrest, a medical problem, eviction, etc. Hopefully he gives in to treatment soon, pills and alcohol can easily be deadly.

 

[Mystic]

A person has to willingly drink themself into the condition where they require extensive and intensive treatment for alcoholism. Somewhere along the line, that person has to make a decision to quit. They have to make that decision before they have become chronic alcoholics.

Today I can have a glass of wine and never reach for the second glass. I can go months at a time and never drink any alcoholic beverage whatsoever. It is peer influence to some extent. Find some different friends if you have to. I never go to bars anymore.

There was a time in France when people would drink wine at every meal. But relatively few people became alcoholics.

It is probably much harder to defeat Heroin addiction, but people have done that after they made the decision to try.

It is pretty easy not to become a Meth addict. Don't try it even once. Just say no! After what is known today about Meth use and what it does to human beings, how could anybody even want to try it-even once?

It is a matter of willpower, being able to say no regardless of any peer pressure, and having self respect for yourself. And there has to be something more to live for in life than getting drunk every day.

 

[JoeWGauss]

That's the core of the issue....you have to take that first drink or drug or whatever to become an addict. Nobody forces that stuff down your throat....except ones self. When you take that first drink or drug YOU made a choice, nobody else did this to them.....NOBODY!

Then come the added excuses from this irresponsible careless person when they hurt or kill someone else because of their reckless, and irresponsible behavior!

JAIL!

I don't say reform someone off welfare let them starve if they don't want to work but are able bodied. If you can pick up cans from the side of the road you can work and earn a living.

As long as you are not retarded with an exceptionally low IQ there IS NO EXCUSE AT ALL!


I say to these indulgent people who call themselves addicts shape up or just die so you can not harm others.

 

[Loobed]

My uncle died from alcoholism. His legs rotted off and some poison entered his blood system and he died. I don't know where the poison came from. I think it was from his rotting legs. His legs were amputated, and he died less than a month later. I think the alcohol stopped blood flowing to his feet.

Studying the cause of addiction is one of my hobbies. Understanding Bullies and Psychopaths is my main interest, but they are addicted to bullying and controlling others, so that is why study addictions.

ALL ADDICTIONS ARE THE SAME. The alcoholic just responds to alcohol. Addiction fulfills a missing need. Addiction is actually a natural preservation reflex that has gone haywire. example: Squirrels gather acorns, pinecones, and other nuts to store for winter. It is instinctive to repeat the process. They do not learn it in squirrel school. It is possible that the squirrel's brain gives him a chemical reward every time he hides a nut. Humans may also get a chemical rewards when they complete a task; like a basketball player making a basket. Alcoholics get a faster and easier reward. Both good and bad people become alcoholics for the same reason.

The key to stopping it is for HIM to find out what personal pain is buried inside his subconscious. That would most likely be something in his childhood, and it is almost 100% guaranteed to be neglect/betrayal from some guardian(s). Once he finds what it is and understands that it isn't his fault, the addiction will go away, although it will be a long process. Just telling himself it isn't his fault won't work. Your conscious mind and subconscious mind don't see the same things or react the same. His (anyone's) subconscious mind took a long time to develop, and it will take a long time to fix it if it is broken. I should also not that most people are screwed up. I am guessing 95% of the people in this country: Myself included. Most of the really screwed up people put up a good front and give a false impression that they are sane.

 

[65cuda]

I rather doubt that many took their first drink or smoked their first joint with the thought of gee I want to become dependent on this [censored]. Some people are able to just put down a cig and never look back. I've known others that I reall believe that they wanted to quit their addiction but just never could or it took a lot of tries to do it. I think it is too easy to just say that it takes is willpower. But that is just my opinion.