Air conditioners

[JHZR2]

Hello,

I need to start thinking about buying a new window AC or two... The PO left us with some, but Ive redone the attic and would like a new one up there, and then we also redid a bedroom and got rid of the old one in there.

For the attic, I really want one of those self-standing units... My attic windows are small, so I can't fit a window unit decently, and I wouldnt want to chance it, as I have new windows. HD sells a sharp branded unit. Are any better than any others?

As for window units, the energy star site is weird. I am looking for something somewhere between 6 and 10kBTU - I dont really care, all it is is a matter of how fast the room cools - we minimize our use of AC anyway, for all but the worst nights, when the heat makes it tough to sleep. However, if Im buying one, I want a super efficient one. Per the energy star site, the EER rating snt the end all, as some are rated as 10% more efficient than the baseline, while others are up to 18 or 19% more efficient, at the same EER rating. However, the super-great models cannot be found in any store and I cant seem to even find them for sale online. I dont know what gives, as Id prefer the absoltely most efficient unit I could buy.

Then it comes to quality... The Kenmore and Samsung units seem to be the exact same items, down to every spec and the placemet of the controls. However, as an example, a 10k BTU samsung might cost $229, whereas a similar 10k BTU frigidaire costs $446?!?!?!?!?!!!! All specs are the same within reason, the samsung has 500 BTU better cooling, and draws 9.1A vs 8.6, and the frigidaire is 11 lbs lighter. But why the price discrpancy??? Are frigidaires made in the USA??? if so, Ill spend the extra bucks on that alone!

Any advice for the best brands to buy for high efficiency small room AC units for bedrooms??? Id even love 240V units, if they make small ACs that run on 240 as window units. I dont need more than 10k BTU. I want quality and efficiency, preferably made in USA.

Any suggestions???


Thanks!

JMH

 

[Master ACiD]

too bad youre so far away ive for a couple 200v units that fit right into youre requirements. i am going to donate because most people dont realise the VALUE of a window unit compared to running central ac. i cant even give these things away.

 

[JHZR2]

you have 240V smaller window units???!?!?

What brands and what ratings? It is a shame that Im so far away! Ill have to buy what you have there.

Id love to have smaller 240V units - te only ones that HD/lowes have are way overkill and well over 100 lbs. I have one of those jobs in my wall in my living room - works great for there, but Id hate to lug such a monster into a window elsewhere... meanwhile from what Ive read, the 240V uits run more efficiently, and tend to be better units than the standard 120V jobs that tax circuits when they actually are doing a lot of work and provide a lot of cooling.

Window units are reall the best. As much as I dont like the heat, I dispise the thought of cooling my whole house, throwing energy away to a utility that cannot be overcome due to the sun bearing in on us every day. WInow untis let me selectively cool, and then turn off the air conditioning for everyplace that I dont need it.

Any info would be great!

JMH

 

[sprintman]

Didn't know you had 240V in the States, I thought you were all 110V. I learn something every day

 

[javacontour]

We actually get 220V into our homes. That is the potential difference between the two "hot" lines that come into the home. Between the Neutral and either of those hot lines is 110V and what standard outlets get.

Loads such as central A/C units, Electric Furnaces, Electric Clothes Dryers and Electric Ranges typically run on 220V here in the US.

I may not have all the terms right when it comes to hot/neutral and ground, so anyone who is an electrician feel free to correct my poor terminology. However, I think that accurately describes power service in the US.

 

[Master ACiD]

yeah they are 5 and 10K btu units from a house i rent (i convert it to central air at the request of tennants).

nobody realises that window units are more efficent because they only cool the room you are currently in.

 

[Shannow]

Quote:

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We actually get 220V into our homes. That is the potential difference between the two "hot" lines that come into the home. Between the Neutral and either of those hot lines is 110V and what standard outlets get.

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We don't have two hot lines, either a single, or three.

A normal power point is 240V to neutral, which is effectively Earth potential (some rural places, they use the Earth as the neutral, and thus have a single wire).

If you have three phase, it's 415V phase to phase, and 240 volts phase to Neutral.

 

[Al]

Undersize the unit. A much smaller unit running more is best. It dehumidifies way more. I have a 20 x 20 room with a cathedral ceiling. I have a 6800 Btu unit. and there is enough cooling/dehumidification to help the other room.

My bedroom has a 5,000 Btu unit. It keeps the room in the 60's on the hottest nights.

I endorse your idea of using window units. Why cool the whole house when you are in only 1 room. Cinsider buying American Made. Electrolux is made in U.S. My other units are Amana. Not sure they are made in the U.S. anymore. FWIW..Over 40 years of using window units, I have never had one fail.

As long as you are around 9.7+EER that is fine (for me).

Again the key is...undersize.

 

[JHZR2]

Quote:

---

We actually get 220V into our homes. That is the potential difference between the two "hot" lines that come into the home. Between the Neutral and either of those hot lines is 110V and what standard outlets get.

Loads such as central A/C units, Electric Furnaces, Electric Clothes Dryers and Electric Ranges typically run on 220V here in the US.

I may not have all the terms right when it comes to hot/neutral and ground, so anyone who is an electrician feel free to correct my poor terminology. However, I think that accurately describes power service in the US.

---

I always mess up the terminology. In my house, we get 119.7 or so volts per leg going in. that tels me that we would have 240V service. My impression was that electric service is nominally 110V, to have a rating that can be met across the country - due to the losses that would be had over long runs of lines. The 60Hz has to do with generators operaing at 3600RPM or something like this.

I would be interested in hearing how it REALLY works, particularly because it is confusing to see some things rated for 230V/208V.

Thanks!

JMH

 

[JHZR2]

THis one is supposedly extremely efficient, and a top-notch made in USA unit. Energy star rates it as 19% better than standard, as opposed to the box stores units, which are all around 10% if they are energy star:
http://www.friedrich.com/current/php_model.php?modnum=XQ06L10A&line=Xstar

I consider it an investment... it better be, as it is twice the price of the standard units at HD and lowes for similar capacity. It is heavier, more efficient, and it might be the smart pick...

Any thoughts?

JMH

 

[Master ACiD]

at twice the cost how many decades would that thing take to pay off?
my personal opinion is that unless its going to be run 24 hours a day, youre better off getting a midrange model.

 

[TooManyWheels]

Al has stated the most important point.

I hope you are not confusing efficiency with dehumidifying potential. A "high efficiency" unit which is oversized for the application will give you neither good comfort nor low operating cost. If you read up on A/C you will find that both low operating cost and optimum comfort come from running smaller units for longer times.

Cold, humid air is not comfortable. Very cold humid air alternating with hot humid air is not comfortable. What is comfortable is cool DRY air, and that comes from running a smaller unit for longer times. And you benefit cost-wise by running a smaller unit which is not always in the high amperage draw start-mode.

 

[brianl703]

Quote:

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We actually get 220V into our homes. That is the potential difference between the two "hot" lines that come into the home. Between the Neutral and either of those hot lines is 110V and what standard outlets get.

---

Some additional clarification:

The neutral is connected to the center tap of the distribution transformer. It's also grounded at the circuit breaker panel, and is the only place it should be grounded.

 

[brianl703]

Quote:

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I would be interested in hearing how it REALLY works, particularly because it is confusing to see some things rated for 230V/208V.

---

When you have three-phase power, it is 120V phase to neutral, but 208V phase to phase.

Many commercial buildings are wired for three-phase power but it is very rare to find a residential building wired for three-phase power.

Quote:

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My impression was that electric service is nominally 110V

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I've noticed that appliances were rated for 110V, then 115V, then 117V, and now 120V.

I don't know if this reflects changes that the power companies have made (attempting to reduce the voltage drop and bring the voltage closer to 120V over the years) or what.

 

[TooManyWheels]

Postscript

If you want to take the engineering approach (as opposed to the typical consumer research approach) read up on the "Manual J" heat loss/gain calculation method. It will tell you exactly how many BTU are required to add or remove X degrees of temperature from your Y size room given Z construction technique and amount of room insulation.

 

[JHZR2]

Quote:

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Al has stated the most important point.

I hope you are not confusing efficiency with dehumidifying potential. A "high efficiency" unit which is oversized for the application will give you neither good comfort nor low operating cost. If you read up on A/C you will find that both low operating cost and optimum comfort come from running smaller units for longer times.

Cold, humid air is not comfortable. Very cold humid air alternating with hot humid air is not comfortable. What is comfortable is cool DRY air, and that comes from running a smaller unit for longer times. And you benefit cost-wise by running a smaller unit which is not always in the high amperage draw start-mode.

---

Absolutely. I am loking for "high efficiency" 6000 BTU units - small and undersized, but what power they pull and what cooling they perform is using the most efficient components, so that for the equivalent BTU removal/dehumidification operation, they pull less amperage.

The rankine cycle is the rankine cycle... but the parts to perform is can be better (more efficient) or cheaper (less efficient)... or so I think.

JMH

 

[McKittrick]

I have a 10.8 eer 5200 btu unit from HD their brand built by LG, it has run since June 2003 here in Texas where we run AC from March to November. Still working well.

I also have an 8200 btu Sharp 9.8 eer that has run since August 2004, when I needed a unit fast and did not have time to get a 10.8 or 11+ unit. It is still working fine.

Now I cool the house with these two units, running nearly continously on warm days, the humidity is well controlled and the electric bill has fallen compared to the 3 ton central unit running, total window units is a little over 1 ton.

The house does not cool off as fast, but it remains comfortable even with outside of 105 F.

Both units were built in Korea, current HD units are from China as most others are.

 

[ThirdeYe]

I used to have a window air conditioner in my bedroom since i'm upstairs where it's the warmest in the house and the central air conditioning doesn't touch it. I found that even with the lowest BTU I could find, it still kept the room icy cold even at the lowest setting. But, there were these little blinds to fill in the window gap, and I found that they let in way too much noise if I didn't have the fan running. I'd always hear the crickets chirping and the neighbors, etc. I'm kind of a baby when it comes to sleeping with any kinds of noise. I've since gotten a ceiling fan to use, and that seems much better for my situation.

 

[JHZR2]

Well I bought the freidrich. The fact that it was made in the USA was what sealed the extra cost, compared to the box stores' stuff. It is rated the highest efficiency of any AC out there in its size, so Ill make up somewhat,not to mention the energy star rebate, etc. Considering it will cool our bedroom I figured Id make an investment.

For the attic and kitchen, Ill look for a duictless split system, which can utilize one outdoor small compressor for two cooling units. I don't want a window unit for my kitchen, as it is on the back of the house by the deck, and I think having an AC in the window could be a break-in hazzard, as it is easy to push one in... my attic has too small of windows, so it would be nice there too. This way Ill still have a small unit, not utilize the windows in these two places, and still have them pleasant!

JMH

 

[JHZR2]

For my attic and kitchen, Im thinking of one like this:

http://www.friedrich.com/ductless/dualzone/

I know the fiancee's family uses this type in their house in the USVI, because you cant install ducts, etc. if you wanted to due to construction type down there... But on a three story home its different... Anyone have experience installing this sort of a unit???

Im not doing it for at least a year, but at 16.5 EER, running on 230V, and undersized unit cooling two spots (and being able to be used as a heater in my unheated, finished attic), it seems like a good option...

Thanks,

JMH