After they all go thin, what will the thin people do?

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It seems Toyota has gone to 20 wt. oils. Eventually I think that they all will do so. But then what will the "thin people" do? Will there be a force to push towards 10 or even 0 wt. oils? If so, will there be no need for VII and other additives?

aehaas
 
I don't want to discount base oils, but I think that current 20 wt performance is due in a large part to the additive package. VIIs may disappear, but other additives are here to stay..and hopefully improve even more.
 
quote:

Originally posted by GMorg:
I don't want to discount base oils, but I think that current 20 wt performance is due in a large part to the additive package.

Modern 5w20s are the product of improved base oil AND additive technology, but it's really the Group II+ and Group III base oils that make them possible at a price point people will accept.

Modern 5w20s are vastly superior to previous 5w20s made with Group I, which were truly only suitable for winter use in very cold climates and not for summer heat and/or sustained highway speeds. The volatility of these oils in the summer or at sustained highway speeds would have been horrific. Even 5w30s had the same problem when Detroit made the switch to that grade 20 years ago. I remember looked at a 85 Ford Tempo owners manual that spec'd 5w30, but not at temps above 100F or for sustained high speed driving. (Like someone would drive a Tempo at "high speed" for any length of time. Right.)
 
I agree entirely with G-Man, that the performance of the current crop of 5W-20's is primarily due to the better quality Grp II+ and Grp III base oils.

If additive technology were the primary factor, we would see 105-110 VI 4 cSt Grp II's used as the base oil for 5W-20's.

The lower volatility rating of a Grp II+/Grp III base oil is necessary to pass the 100 hr @ 300F, GF-4 Sequence IIIG test.
 
Where do you hear that Toyota is recommending 20-weights? If this is true, then good.

Public acceptance of 20-weight oils has not been good in the US. Even though two major manufacturers recommend 20-weight for nearly all their vehicles, selection is still poor almost anywhere you go.
 
You guys make it seem like improved 20 weight is good enough to replace thicker oil in ALL applications, like A3. That's not the case now, is it?
 
quote:

Originally posted by Auto-Union:
You guys make it seem like improved 20 weight is good enough to replace thicker oil in ALL applications, like A3. That's not the case now, is it?

Ask Dr. Haas. He's using 5w20 in his Maybach (V12, twin turbo) and he used it in his Ferrari, and I think he uses it in his Lambo. These cars all spec 5w30 or 5w40 A3 oils and yet he's posted outstanding UOAs running 20 wt in them.

Fuchs says their Titan GT-1 0w20 is okay to run in any modern engine no matter what the recommended grade.
 
i think we're all cavemen still using liquids for lubrication!! the next step is to change states: high pressure air is the lube of the future! 24,000psi, 800cfm coming out of a rod journal shoudl be enough pressure to keep the parts suspended, doncha think?
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without some major breakthrough in the tensile strength of metals, I dont see anything less than a xx20w as be adequate for current engine design and consumer applications.CI4(+) rated oils for diesels would suggest the chemist are leading rather than trailing. my guess is a synthetic magnesium thats cost effective to mass produce would be the catalyst for the next reduction to lower wt oils. at least thats my opinion; I could be wrong!
 
quote:

Originally posted by the_oil_dealer:
i think we're all cavemen still using liquids for lubrication!! the next step is to change states: high pressure air is the lube of the future! 24,000psi, 800cfm coming out of a rod journal shoudl be enough pressure to keep the parts suspended, doncha think?

We have two Capstone microturbines at our plant and they spin at 95,000 rpms and require no oil.
 
quote:

Originally posted by road_rascal:
We have two Capstone microturbines at our plant and they spin at 95,000 rpms and require no oil.

"Thanks to air bearings and air cooling, there are no liquids or oils to change, ever."

There will probably still be those who will argue that "thicker" air will provide "better protection" for your turbine's bearings. Amsoil will sell this "thicker" air packaged in high pressure tanks through a multi-level marketing strategy.
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quote:

Originally posted by lewk:
this engine has promise as well link here http://www.axialvectorengine.com/AxialVector.htm

Interesting, but some oil is still needed:

"Our engine was designed from the ground up to operate using today's synthetic oils for improved performance. Additionally, we designed the oiling system to cool the engine similarly to how the early Porsche automobiles were oil cooled. This allowed us to operate our engine without a separate water cooled radiator and the associated components such as hoses, water pumps, etc. Again, this saves weight and increases the reliability of our engine by using fewer parts prone to failure."
 
I'm not sure the auto buying public would respond to any new engine technology thats not an ICE(internal combustion engine). we balked at the advent of the xx30 weights and a score later we are condemning the xx20w oils too! 50 years from now, maybe.the microturbine and the axial vector COULD be a great trend if embraced by consumers, but have just as much chance as a flat tax. too many lawyers,accountants and tax professional would become unemployed.overnight. off topic but needed to support earlier post. VII no , but some add pkg for sure. virgin base oil is not very shear stable at 4000f+.slightly on topic.
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quote:

Originally posted by 427Z06:
Originally posted by road_rascal:
[qb]We have two Capstone microturbines at our plant and they spin at 95,000 rpms and require no oil.
"Thanks to air bearings and air cooling, there are no liquids or oils to change, ever."
Darn near every laser printer, and most scanners have used air bearing technology for 20 years. The product I work on has a 30,000 rpm polygon motor in the laser to paint the beam across the photobelt. Been that way since it's intro in '85. It is very rare that they fail, and most have 24/7 operation for 10 years or more.
There will probably still be those who will argue that "thicker" air will provide "better protection" for your turbine's bearings. Amsoil will sell this "thicker" air packaged in high pressure tanks through a multi-level marketing strategy.
It will be a leading edge, fully synthetic air won't it?
 
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