Advice needed on car smoking

[AcuraTech]

Mechanic in a can = garbage.

Nothing that you dump into your engine is going to fix this. Sounds like it is in need of serious engine repair.

Sounds like this engine has been used and abused.

 

[twizy]

I don't doubt that the engine was severely abused but I'm doing what I can to try and salvage it at the lowest cost possible. If an engine rebuild is truly needed, I will go ahead and do that, but in the meantime I will try these oil additives because hey you never know...

 

[jonny-b]

I would seriously considder Auto-Rx. It cleans up stuck ring packs rather fast(some 200-300 miles have been reported here). The thing to do is to take the car on a few trips where the oil reaches working temperature. Auto-Rx is designed to clean metal. It works best together with the cheapest dino you can get. After the compression have been restored, it will continue to slowly dissolve contaminants and sludge from oil-passages and other plases in the engine. I don't tink MMO will perform as well as Auto-Rx, but I am excited to see your results. Good luck.

 

[Earl Filter]

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Mechanic in a can = garbage.

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Mechanics in a can have helped quite a number of S-series Saturns with stuck rings (one of my own included), so your equation is not always right. You may very well be right, but it doesn't hurt to spend a few bucks to try.

 

[twizy]

On a side note, is feeding seafoam to the cylinders via the spark plug holes the same as feeding seafoam via the PCV valve?

 

[Gary Allan]

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On a side note, is feeding seafoam to the cylinders via the spark plug holes the same as feeding seafoam via the PCV valve?

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Not quite. You'll clean the intake (somewhat) from where the PCV enters it. You'll also hit the hot back side of the intake valve.

If you want to get a decent amount of unburned product in the combustion chamber, you have to add it via the air horn. Vacuum sources are somewhat self regulating. As you stifle the combustion process ..they draw less product. Via the air horn you can out pace the air intake volume (don't continue after it stalls).

I too would attempt Auto-Rx. I'd also say that I've seen older Hondas with worn rings that didn't not need oversized rings to be used for replacement. The cylinder walls were either of a harder material ..or the rings a softer material to allow this one sided wear

If you can live with the smoke, and the engine is otherwise functional in terms of power production (assuming you throw a hot enough plug in the cylinder that's oil soaked), ..then just live with the consumption. I would not recommend a head R&R if you're not, at least, willing to (potentially) also address the rings. There you will just find it pushing the compression out the easiest pathway when you seal up the valves.

I'll also add that none of us know that the rings are truly shot. All of his symptoms can be 100% from bad guides/valve seals.

 

[twizy]

Thanks for the input Gary. Yea I can live with the smoking as long as the engine is functional. If I don't get any improvements with the MMO/dino combination I may very well go ahead and try Auto-RX. I've heard really good things about seafoam as well so I was thinking of doing repeated piston soaks of seafoam since it is much cheaper and readily available at any auto parts store.

 

[Elroy the Unique]

Good luck Twizy.

Hopefully some of the things described here work for you. Thanks for keeping us posted on the results. Just remember, it might take 2-3 Oil Change Intervals of the MMO/OIL comination, before you see results.

That said, seeing how you are always adding oil, your car sees an oil change interval pretty frequently...

 

[cousincletus]

Have you done a compression check yet?

 

[twizy]

I haven't done a compression test, the local garage was asking 150 for it. 150 for a test really boggled my mind. I don't have the know how to do it myself either.

I bought 3 gallons of MMO. If after 3 gallons of treatment/piston soaks, I see no noticeable difference I will try Auto-RX. If nothing materializes from Auto-RX, then the engine will be off to motor heaven.

 

[Earl Filter]

It's very easy, cheap, and you'll own the tool when you're done.
1. Buy a compression tester. Maybe $25-30 at any auto parts store.
2. (Preferably on a warm engine) Pull all the spark plugs out.
3. Disable the fuel and the spark, usually by pulling the fuel pump relay, and unplugging an ignition module or pulling ignition fuse.
4. Block the throttle body open. I open it all the way, and use a clamp or locking pliers (vice grips) to hold the throttle linkage open at the throttle body.
5. Screw adapter from tester/gauge into one spark plug hole.
6. Crank engine over several revolutions. Check gauge.
7. Repeat 5 and 6 for each of the other cylinders. The compression PSI should be relatively uniform over all of the cylinders (no more than maybe 5-10% difference).
8. Starting at the first cylinder, squirt a little motor oil (like a teaspoon) into the cylinder, and do the test again. This will help seal up the rings, IF there's a ring sealing problem. If the PSI for any given cylinder goes up after the application of oil, then the rings aren't sealing very well. If it doesn't change much or at all, then the compression rings aren't part of the problem.

You can do this test in 1/2 hour to an hour if you've never done it. It would go a long way to diagnosing the problem.

http://www.2gnt.com/www/corbin/comp.html

 

[Earl Filter]

http://www.geocities.com/dsmgrrrl/FAQs/compression.htm

The PSI numbers in the links I gave are specific to those engines being tested. You can get the numbers for YOUR engine in a Chilton or Haynes manual for your car. You probably won't need them, though, as with a big problem like yours, they will either all be consistent but low (like under 100 psi), or you'll have maybe a couple that look good (150psi or something), and a couple that are waaaaay off from that number.

 

[TexasHonda]

If you haven't checked your PCV system, I would inspect the PCV valve and hoses for open flow and replacement as indicated. A blocked PCV will force blowby into the intake and cause substantial oil burning.

Stuck rings would be indicated by low compression also, so a compression check may indicate if this is a possibility.

good luck

 

[twizy]

Hey Texas, thanks for recommending this site. Its a wealth of information here. I will be sure to check the PCV valve too.

 

[m2200b]

And that's why you do a compression test as part of the mechanics test before you buy a used car with this mileage on your next purchase.

 

[twizy]

I'm planning on doing the compression test as soon as I figure out how to disconnect the fuel pump and ignition. I looked under the fuse box but none of the fuses were indicative of representing either fuel or ignition.

 

[cousincletus]

^^^ I have done the test w/o turning off the fuel. Just remove all the sparkplugs, screw the compression tester into the spark plug hole, and crank the engine. You'll probably have three @ 150 psi and one @ 75 or so psi. If that happens, that will indicate you have a broken ring(s) and the engine needs rebuilt.

 

[m2200b]

I'd do the test whatever the cost so you have better info on what needs to be done now , down the road. I'd expect the $150 for the test here in San Francisco as that's just a function of labor rates at 2x other parts of the country.

 

[JakeR22]

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I'm planning on doing the compression test as soon as I figure out how to disconnect the fuel pump and ignition. I looked under the fuse box but none of the fuses were indicative of representing either fuel or ignition.

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Look for an ECU fuse.

 

[Tosh]

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^^^ I have done the test w/o turning off the fuel. Just remove all the sparkplugs, screw the compression tester into the spark plug hole, and crank the engine. You'll probably have three @ 150 psi and one @ 75 or so psi. If that happens, that will indicate you have a broken ring(s) and the engine needs rebuilt.

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Fuel mist coming out from open sparkplug holes and loose ignition wires? Yikes!
Safety aside, I think you would want fuel to be off to get accurate readings during compression test?
Sears has basic compression tester for $25.

PS. My money's still on the valve guides being the main problem.