So if your oil filter points straight down, does the ADBV matter? Can the oil siphon out? I'm asking because I can get P1 filters for my '05 Subaru 4 banger non turbo ( PL14460, correct bypass setting, no ADBV ) for the same or less than OEM. The can seems pretty full when I change the oil, but then I'm using the OEM filter with the ADBV.
ADBV needed if filter is vertical?
- Thread starter Seguino
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I am no engineer when it comes to this but I will tell you what I have been told by the engineer at Wix that I know. The AD valve is important on certain engines no matter how the filter is mounted. On engines with the filter mounted upright, it allows oil to remain in some of the passages where it would otherwise drain back.
Again, I asked this same question and was told that if it is designed in from the OE, it is vital that it be there.
An example is on my GMC Sierra truck. After the up-right filter is removed seems like a half quart runs out. If the filter did not have an ADBV, that oil held in the passages would have to be replaced at start up each time.
Again, I asked this same question and was told that if it is designed in from the OE, it is vital that it be there.
An example is on my GMC Sierra truck. After the up-right filter is removed seems like a half quart runs out. If the filter did not have an ADBV, that oil held in the passages would have to be replaced at start up each time.
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i think the anti drain back is different than the bypass valve. I thought most all filters had anti drain back valves. The anti drain back valve simply prevents oil from flowing backwards thru the filter, where the bypass valve is simply used to prevent the oil pump from creating too much pressure during cold starts or whatever. As mentioned above, i have three chevy trucks and they all have the oil bypass built into the oil filter adapter.
Originally Posted By: Seguino
So if your oil filter points straight down, does the ADBV matter? Can the oil siphon out? I'm asking because I can get P1 filters for my '05 Subaru 4 banger non turbo ( PL14460, correct bypass setting, no ADBV ) for the same or less than OEM. The can seems pretty full when I change the oil, but then I'm using the OEM filter with the ADBV.
If Purolator shows your car in the table linked below, then I'd use it. Purolator wouldn't specify the PL14460 without an ADBV if they know it didn't work without issue.
http://www.purolatorautofilters.net/reso...4460&page=1
So if your oil filter points straight down, does the ADBV matter? Can the oil siphon out? I'm asking because I can get P1 filters for my '05 Subaru 4 banger non turbo ( PL14460, correct bypass setting, no ADBV ) for the same or less than OEM. The can seems pretty full when I change the oil, but then I'm using the OEM filter with the ADBV.
If Purolator shows your car in the table linked below, then I'd use it. Purolator wouldn't specify the PL14460 without an ADBV if they know it didn't work without issue.
http://www.purolatorautofilters.net/reso...4460&page=1
the Subaru is very ideal, filter completely upside down, so gravity prevents any drain back, meaning no ADBV is needed. i use the longer size filter in my subaru: Bosch 3323 ST 7317 Napa 1356 or PL 14610. 3/4" longer than stock - stock is a tiny runt, only 2.5" tall.
Its not the oil in the filter thats the problem. Its the oil in the oil passages above the filter that will drain down and into the oil pan if the ADBV is not there. Then the pump will have to fill them up again before pressure is realized. At least thats what the engineers at Wix told me. They said the OEM called for a ADBV for a reason.
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i use the longer size filter in my subaru: Bosch 3323 ST 7317 Napa 1356 or PL 14610.
The PL14610 has an ADBV
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filter completely upside down, so gravity prevents any drain back, meaning no ADBV is needed.
Could you explain more please? My boat motor uses a remote mount with the filter mounted upside down and I was told it was critical to have ADBV to prevent the filter from draining. If it was not needed maybe it would make less of a mess when I remove it!
FWIW, the Oem filters for my boat have ADBV's I have seen both Champ and Fram Mercruiser filters.
i use the longer size filter in my subaru: Bosch 3323 ST 7317 Napa 1356 or PL 14610.
The PL14610 has an ADBV
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filter completely upside down, so gravity prevents any drain back, meaning no ADBV is needed.
Could you explain more please? My boat motor uses a remote mount with the filter mounted upside down and I was told it was critical to have ADBV to prevent the filter from draining. If it was not needed maybe it would make less of a mess when I remove it!
FWIW, the Oem filters for my boat have ADBV's I have seen both Champ and Fram Mercruiser filters.
Originally Posted By: endeavor to persevere
Its not the oil in the filter thats the problem. Its the oil in the oil passages above the filter that will drain down and into the oil pan if the ADBV is not there. Then the pump will have to fill them up again before pressure is realized. At least thats what the engineers at Wix told me. They said the OEM called for a ADBV for a reason.
+1 Sounds logical to me. Certainly more than all this upside down stuff. Could be we be precise and talk about thread up or thread down?
Its not the oil in the filter thats the problem. Its the oil in the oil passages above the filter that will drain down and into the oil pan if the ADBV is not there. Then the pump will have to fill them up again before pressure is realized. At least thats what the engineers at Wix told me. They said the OEM called for a ADBV for a reason.
+1 Sounds logical to me. Certainly more than all this upside down stuff. Could be we be precise and talk about thread up or thread down?
It is still necessary for the reasons given about the oil in the passages above the filter flushing dirt back through the filter to the pan once the pressure is released. On a vertical up pointing filter like on my Toyota 1.5 engine, I see an amount of additional oil released when the filter is removed. This is from the pretty large outlet passage above the filter. I had thought all auto filters had adbv's but was proven wrong in this forum. Since then I have looked at some old auto mechanic books I have and while it is true that some, (very few) filters #'s have no adbv, the oil circuit in those engines contain a check valve to get the same effect.
Originally Posted By: endeavor to persevere
Its not the oil in the filter thats the problem. Its the oil in the oil passages above the filter that will drain down and into the oil pan if the ADBV is not there. Then the pump will have to fill them up again before pressure is realized. At least thats what the engineers at Wix told me. They said the OEM called for a ADBV for a reason.
Bingo.
Its not the oil in the filter thats the problem. Its the oil in the oil passages above the filter that will drain down and into the oil pan if the ADBV is not there. Then the pump will have to fill them up again before pressure is realized. At least thats what the engineers at Wix told me. They said the OEM called for a ADBV for a reason.
Bingo.
Common sense would say that if the oil filter sits in a vertical thread up position no adbv would be necessary. In that case, wouldn't seem that it would hurt to have one, but I can't think of a reason for one.
Originally Posted By: sayjac
Common sense would say that if the oil filter sits in a vertical thread up position no adbv would be necessary. In that case, wouldn't seem that it would hurt to have one, but I can't think of a reason for one.
Originally Posted By: endeavor to persevere
Its not the oil in the filter thats the problem. Its the oil in the oil passages above the filter that will drain down and into the oil pan if the ADBV is not there. Then the pump will have to fill them up again before pressure is realized. At least thats what the engineers at Wix told me. They said the OEM called for a ADBV for a reason.
Common sense would say that if the oil filter sits in a vertical thread up position no adbv would be necessary. In that case, wouldn't seem that it would hurt to have one, but I can't think of a reason for one.
Originally Posted By: endeavor to persevere
Its not the oil in the filter thats the problem. Its the oil in the oil passages above the filter that will drain down and into the oil pan if the ADBV is not there. Then the pump will have to fill them up again before pressure is realized. At least thats what the engineers at Wix told me. They said the OEM called for a ADBV for a reason.
I read the post, but thanks for the repost. Which begs the question then, if that is always the case, do all the filter apps that don't have adbv have an internal engine adbv? If they all don't, then there must be a verticle thread up position where drain back is not an issue.
I have never seen a vehicle with an ADBV in the engine. Are you sure you are not confusing a bypass with a ADBV?
I cannot see how this can be an issue for a "threads up" engine. Of course some oil runs out after removal! But it won't go anywhere with the filter in place.
I cannot see how this can be an issue for a "threads up" engine. Of course some oil runs out after removal! But it won't go anywhere with the filter in place.
Guys, I think some of you are forgetting that the ADBV only works in one direction no matter how it's screwed to the engine. Oil flows into the filter through the outer ring of holes and past the valve, but the valve stops it from leaving the way it came in. So logically, an ADBV-equipped filter mounted vertically (thread-end facing up) is not able to keep oil in the engine's passages above it because that's the direction that oil is supposed to flow through the filter. Why would an ADBV prevent oil from flowing INTO the filter? Think about it.
The only thing that would keep oil above a vertically mounted filter on the inlet side would be equal presseure on the filter's outlet side, and that has nothing at all to do with the filter itself. That's an engine design issue.
A filter that points up (like on a Subaru) does not need an ADBV which is why a filter made specifically for a Subaru like the 14460 does not have one.
The only thing that would keep oil above a vertically mounted filter on the inlet side would be equal presseure on the filter's outlet side, and that has nothing at all to do with the filter itself. That's an engine design issue.
A filter that points up (like on a Subaru) does not need an ADBV which is why a filter made specifically for a Subaru like the 14460 does not have one.
Originally Posted By: endeavor to persevere
An example is on my GMC Sierra truck. After the up-right filter is removed seems like a half quart runs out. If the filter did not have an ADBV, that oil held in the passages would have to be replaced at start up each time.
The filter's ADBV is not what's keeping oil above the filter. The valve is there to keep oil from flowing back out of the filter, not the engine!
An example is on my GMC Sierra truck. After the up-right filter is removed seems like a half quart runs out. If the filter did not have an ADBV, that oil held in the passages would have to be replaced at start up each time.
The filter's ADBV is not what's keeping oil above the filter. The valve is there to keep oil from flowing back out of the filter, not the engine!
Originally Posted By: Bottom_Feeder
Guys, I think some of you are forgetting that the ADBV only works in one direction no matter how it's screwed to the engine. Oil flows into the filter through the outer ring of holes and past the valve, but the valve stops it from leaving the way it came in. So logically, an ADBV-equipped filter mounted vertically (thread-end facing up) is not able to keep oil in the engine's passages above it because that's the direction that oil is supposed to flow through the filter. Why would an ADBV prevent oil from flowing INTO the filter? Think about it.
The only thing that would keep oil above a vertically mounted filter on the inlet side would be equal presseure on the filter's outlet side, and that has nothing at all to do with the filter itself. That's an engine design issue.
A filter that points up (like on a Subaru) does not need an ADBV which is why a filter made specifically for a Subaru like the 14460 does not have one.
+1 That's what I thought in my first post here, regarding common sense and not seeing the need for an adbv in thread up vertical mount situations.
And, the other poster is also correct, I've never heard of internal engine adbv either, (unlike bypass) but there are some engine filter apps not requiring an adbv.
Guys, I think some of you are forgetting that the ADBV only works in one direction no matter how it's screwed to the engine. Oil flows into the filter through the outer ring of holes and past the valve, but the valve stops it from leaving the way it came in. So logically, an ADBV-equipped filter mounted vertically (thread-end facing up) is not able to keep oil in the engine's passages above it because that's the direction that oil is supposed to flow through the filter. Why would an ADBV prevent oil from flowing INTO the filter? Think about it.
The only thing that would keep oil above a vertically mounted filter on the inlet side would be equal presseure on the filter's outlet side, and that has nothing at all to do with the filter itself. That's an engine design issue.
A filter that points up (like on a Subaru) does not need an ADBV which is why a filter made specifically for a Subaru like the 14460 does not have one.
+1 That's what I thought in my first post here, regarding common sense and not seeing the need for an adbv in thread up vertical mount situations.
And, the other poster is also correct, I've never heard of internal engine adbv either, (unlike bypass) but there are some engine filter apps not requiring an adbv.
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