ADBV Failure FRAM ULTRA XG-8A ,10K miles 13 months

Messages
10,426
Location
Cincinnati, OH, USA
Not that it should matter, but doesn't a Dodge 318 generally use a PH/XG16? I use the XG8A on the Jeep 4.0 in my sig, it's mounted sideways, not had an ADBV issue with one yet. XG2 on the 4.6 mounted at a 45 degree angle, it's been fine too. I have to put this one in the "doo-doo happens" category, sometimes things happen.
 
Messages
4,208
Location
South Carolina
This is why I prefer to run cheap oil (that meets the specs anyway) and filters and change often then the other way around. I would be upset.
 
Last edited:
Messages
1,223
Location
USA
The Fram baseplate doesn't capture and center the adbv, the valve just lays on top of it. The centering in done by the can tabs on the end cap. not very precise. Combine that error with base holes being off center error and too high up on the crown of the baseplate and the holes can be exposed, leaking. If air is allowed into the filter the vacuum breaks and he filter drains out. The Fram baseplate and adv is an old and lousy design IMO. Time to upgrade that design.
 
Messages
588
Location
Raleigh NC
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
I asked the same, wondering what the orientation was. If it's vertical with base up, then proves that an ADBV is also important with that mounting orientation, which has been argued for years around here, lol.
No argument here. My LS2 with filter straight up WILL drain out through the filter if the ADBV doesn't seal. Clatter, clatter, clatter. No question, no argument. The engine galleries will drain through the filter if they are higher than the sump, no matter which way the filter is oriented. 318s are all upward at 45 degrees as far as I know, unless remoted. Many of them have room for the 8A unless the exhaust manifold is in the way. All 3 of mine did.
 
Messages
1,223
Location
USA
This is the first thread that shows proof of the "I got a start up rattle" with a Fram. The seal isn't good when design and manufacturing errors add up in the wrong direction.
 
Messages
1,962
Location
Seattle-ish, WA
Quote
This, I would think would limit fatigue. I have at least one of these ADBV's on the shelf and will gladly supply a picture illustrating these tabs if I must. One more observation I have made is that Ford Motorcraft and Ford Racing Filter ADBV's are labeled FOMOCO.
Interesting, but I don't think it's a definitive advantage. Ford filters were the only one's where the adbv wold consistenly fail in our Lexus (three Motorcraft in a row); I went to FU to solve it and no problems for years now. I think different applications apply different stresses - even independent of manufacturing issues.
 
Messages
990
Location
Colorado
Originally Posted by Farnsworth
This is the first thread that shows proof of the "I got a start up rattle" with a Fram. The seal isn't good when design and manufacturing errors add up in the wrong direction.
It may be small numbers, but when you personally experience the issue, it is pretty unnerving. Our RX330 had a major knocking sound (much more than a rattle) upon start-up after sitting overnight with the XG3614. I sent the filter to car51 and he dissected it, but didn't see anything visually wrong -- I switched back to the Toyota 90915-YZZD1/3 filter. Here is the thread: https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...723/fram-ultra-3614-6-500-miles-cut-open
 
Messages
24,508
Location
PNW
Originally Posted by Farnsworth
The Fram baseplate doesn't capture and center the adbv, the valve just lays on top of it. The centering in done by the can tabs on the end cap. not very precise. Combine that error with base holes being off center error and too high up on the crown of the baseplate and the holes can be exposed, leaking. If air is allowed into the filter the vacuum breaks and he filter drains out. The Fram baseplate and adv is an old and lousy design IMO. Time to upgrade that design.
The ADBV is captured and centered in the end cap center hole, and the ADBV hole annulous is pinched between the end cap and base plate to seal around the center tube. The element assembly is centered in the can by tabs on the outside circumference of the end cap. My photo shows the tabs. Nothing wrong with the design. One guy reports a leaky ADBV and all of a sudden "the design is old and lousy". LOL
 
Messages
866
Location
Indy
Originally Posted by Oro_O
Quote
This, I would think would limit fatigue. I have at least one of these ADBV's on the shelf and will gladly supply a picture illustrating these tabs if I must. One more observation I have made is that Ford Motorcraft and Ford Racing Filter ADBV's are labeled FOMOCO.
Interesting, but I don't think it's a definitive advantage. Ford filters were the only one's where the adbv wold consistenly fail in our Lexus (three Motorcraft in a row); I went to FU to solve it and no problems for years now. I think different applications apply different stresses - even independent of manufacturing issues.
Some Motorcraft filters do not have a silicone ADBV. The silicone valve part numbers will have an "S" at the end. Maybe your part number was a nitrile valve? The FL1-A is still a nitrile valve. But the Ford Racing version has silicone.
 
Messages
2,001
Location
california
Thread starter
Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
You have a LA 318 roller cam..... what ever that is! But do you have a vehicle brand - year - model name and engine size displacement please? Why are you NOT telling us what vehicle this filter was installed on?
This is an Automotive forum. If one does not instantly know what an LA 318 is, and a general ideal of the vehicles it was placed into, in what era, with Roller cam narrowing down those years drastically, well I don't care to engage with them. I doubt they have anything to offer on automotive related topics I am interested in. Not listing the vehicle weeds out replies from the irrelevant. That is Why. 318 is the displacement...... genius. Do I need to say that is cubic inches or can you only think in terms of liters of displacement, that would be 5.2. Your insistence on knowing what vehicle this is inside of, speaks volumes. It is not relevant to the fact that the silicone ADBV, of Bitog's current darling oil filter, failed to perform its task, in half the mileage it is rated for. It caused lots of start up rattle and contributed to some unknown degree of extra engine wear, this particular darling did.
 
Messages
1,746
Location
South Central PA (Fulton Co)
Originally Posted by newtoncd8
Originally Posted by Farnsworth
This is the first thread that shows proof of the "I got a start up rattle" with a Fram. The seal isn't good when design and manufacturing errors add up in the wrong direction.
It may be small numbers, but when you personally experience the issue, it is pretty unnerving. Our RX330 had a major knocking sound (much more than a rattle) upon start-up after sitting overnight with the XG3614. I sent the filter to car51 and he dissected it, but didn't see anything visually wrong -- I switched back to the Toyota 90915-YZZD1/3 filter. Here is the thread: https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...723/fram-ultra-3614-6-500-miles-cut-open
That's interesting to know. I run the slightly longer 3600 version in my Tacoma and even near my 5K OCI it is very quiet on cold start (besides the water pump squeak, lol). Although the filter is almost vertical.
 
Messages
162
Location
New England
Originally Posted by wrcsixeight
This is an Automotive forum. If one does not instantly know what an LA 318 is, and a general ideal of the vehicles it was placed into, in what era, with Roller cam narrowing down those years drastically, well I don't care to engage with them.
LOL! That was one of the do*chiest things I've read on here. Thanks for the laugh!
 
Messages
10,426
Location
Cincinnati, OH, USA
Originally Posted by wrcsixeight
Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
You have a LA 318 roller cam..... what ever that is! But do you have a vehicle brand - year - model name and engine size displacement please? Why are you NOT telling us what vehicle this filter was installed on?
This is an Automotive forum. If one does not instantly know what an LA 318 is, and a general ideal of the vehicles it was placed into, in what era, with Roller cam narrowing down those years drastically, well I don't care to engage with them. I doubt they have anything to offer on automotive related topics I am interested in. Not listing the vehicle weeds out replies from the irrelevant. That is Why. 318 is the displacement...... genius. Do I need to say that is cubic inches or can you only think in terms of liters of displacement, that would be 5.2. Your insistence on knowing what vehicle this is inside of, speaks volumes. It is not relevant to the fact that the silicone ADBV, of Bitog's current darling oil filter, failed to perform its task, in half the mileage it is rated for. It caused lots of start up rattle and contributed to some unknown degree of extra engine wear, this particular darling did.
I knew what it was, pre-Magnum Dodge 318 (AKA 5.2 liter, although they normally weren't called that), there were a bunch of them around in the old days (with flat tappet cams).
 
Messages
10,426
Location
Cincinnati, OH, USA
Originally Posted by bullwinkle
Originally Posted by wrcsixeight
[quote=Triple_Se7en]You have a LA 318 roller cam..... what ever that is! But do you have a vehicle brand - year - model name and engine size displacement please? Why are you NOT telling us what vehicle this filter was installed on?
This is an Automotive forum. If one does not instantly know what an LA 318 is, and a general ideal of the vehicles it was placed into, in what era, with Roller cam narrowing down those years drastically, well I don't care to engage with them. I doubt they have anything to offer on automotive related topics I am interested in. Not listing the vehicle weeds out replies from the irrelevant. That is Why. 318 is the displacement...... genius. Do I need to say that is cubic inches or can you only think in terms of liters of displacement, that would be 5.2. Your insistence on knowing what vehicle this is inside of, speaks volumes. It is not relevant to the fact that the silicone ADBV, of Bitog's current darling oil filter, failed to perform its task, in half the mileage it is rated for. It caused lots of start up rattle and contributed to some unknown degree of extra engine wear, this particular darling did.
I knew what it was, pre-Magnum Dodge 318 (AKA 5.2 liter, although they normally weren't called that), there were a bunch of them around in the old days (with flat tappet cams). The Ultra is only my "darling" because of its' price & quality as far as I'm concerned, all the ones I bought were under $5 off eBay, rebates, etc. The ~$20 Royal Purple has a stronger can, but it's not 4X better![/quote]
 
Messages
669
Location
Arizona
Originally Posted by 69Torino
First I will state that I am not a detractor of Fram, especially the Ultra. I simply don't pick them out of a lineup when it's time to buy a filter. I actually considered trying one out on my XTerra, simply to use one of the most controversial filters ever made and see how it goes for me personally. I'm sure the experience will be mind numbingly average and uneventful. I will however state that I have cut a lot of filters open, and I have observed some things that I consider to be factual; All silicone anti-drainback valves are not created equal. This seems to be a simplistic, obvious statement, but worthy of discussion. Fram's valve, while it is silicone, (and seemingly the same valve across their entire lineup of filters) is a simple flap. There is no rigidity or support. It is allowed to flex down to the filter element and nearly invert itself while oil is flowing under normal operation. As a contrary example, Ford Motorcraft, Wix, and Champ built premium filters such as K&N Gold, Mobil 1 or Royal Purple have molded in "fingers" or "tabs" on the element side of the valve to prevent what I would assume to be a form of hyper extension while oil flows by, therefore limiting the amount of "backbend" the anti drainback valve must endure. This, I would think would limit fatigue. I have at least one of these ADBV's on the shelf and will gladly supply a picture illustrating these tabs if I must. One more observation I have made is that Ford Motorcraft and Ford Racing Filter ADBV's are labeled FOMOCO. So Ford has the rights and possibly a patent on their ADBV design. Most others I have seen are labeled "Parker". That is all, nothing more than observation.
Agree 100% with your observation. I always thought the Fram valves were not up to (say WIX) standards. My opinion of course, but this is one of the reasons I've never felt compelled to use a Fram filter
 
Messages
24,508
Location
PNW
Originally Posted by IronMaidenRules
Originally Posted by wrcsixeight
This is an Automotive forum. If one does not instantly know what an LA 318 is, and a general ideal of the vehicles it was placed into, in what era, with Roller cam narrowing down those years drastically, well I don't care to engage with them.
LOL! That was one of the do*chiest things I've read on here. Thanks for the laugh!
LoL, yeah seems someone poured some [censored] in someone's Wheaties this morning.
 

Al

Messages
18,969
Location
Elizabethtown, Pa
Originally Posted by bbhero
Had the same thing happen with a Fram Ultra 4967 on the lady's 2.2L 98 Camry.. Normally oil comes out when loosening the filter... This has the base end faced down towards the motor... And when I unscrewed that Fram Ultra is was bone dry... Zero oil came out. Other filters have had oil come out and I have had to use a paper towel to clean up the front side of the motor.
That may be normal for any filter when mounted upside down. Both my subarus are mounted upside down. And all filters unscrew without any mess. Not sure how subaru does it. But oil pressure is there instantly and no engine noise.
 
Messages
467
Location
CA
Originally Posted by IronMaidenRules
Originally Posted by wrcsixeight
This is an Automotive forum. If one does not instantly know what an LA 318 is, and a general ideal of the vehicles it was placed into, in what era, with Roller cam narrowing down those years drastically, well I don't care to engage with them.
LOL! That was one of the do*chiest things I've read on here. Thanks for the laugh!
LOL well it's a Dodge... so that's probably why car guys didn't know what it was.
 
Top