Actual (not mythical) Prius Annoyances

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OK, I've been repeatedly accused of being a Prius Kool-Aid drinker since I got mine about 18 months ago. For an array of interesting reasons, this car has been the subject of much "anti" propaganda, the large majority of which has little, if any basis in reality. This has tended, in my opinion, to obscure real discussion and awareness of the few real, actual flaws from which this car does suffer. No car is perfect, and despite the fact that I give mine an "A" overall, I'll toss out these "issues" as some of the real "downers" of driving a Prius.

1) Ironically, the fuel tank. The capacity (~12 gal) is fine, but in a misguided (IMO) attempt to reduce evap emissions, the car has a heavy flexible bladder lining the tank. The bladder is a huge PITA. In the cold, it gets stiff, which sometimes makes it hard to get the car full. In effect, you "pressure fuel" this car, just like a large aircraft. The filler opening has a little seal ring around it, into which you plug the nozzle, and gas pump pressure helps expand the bladder when filling. And here's the real fun part: if you don't know the routine, and try to "top off", you'll overpressurize the bladder. Then, when you pull the nozzle out, a huge gush of gas squirts out, just as if you'd opened a water baloon. Only that's not water...
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2) Variable performance. The Prius is often accused of being a slug in the acceleration department. While the car is no rocket (Road&Track calls it a 10.5 sec 0-60), most folks miss the real "issue" which is that its acceleration performance changes with the state of charge in the traction battery. If you catch it with a hot battery (green in the charge display) the car actually feels pretty zippy, which makes sense since the big motor-gen is applying its full monster torque (downstream, btw, from the gearing of the trans). OTOH, if you catch it in a low state (pink on the SoC display), the computer steps in and refuses to allow much electric boost, and then the car really does get sluggish (thankfully this doesn't happen often). Some can't deal with this quirk. I notice it, but it doesn't really bother me.

3) The A-Pillars (between windshield and front windows) obstruct vision significantly. New owners coming from other cars must learn, quickly, that the A-pillars are "leaned" way forward, and WILL obstruct vision in the front quarters (especially on the right side). This is a particular issue turning at "T" intersections. You MUST change your looking habits to be safe.

4) Although the car is a fully legitimate 5-passenger carrier (but as with so many cars, the rear center position is dicey for adults), rear headroom is tight as a result of the shape of the roof. My son is 6'1" tall (still going up...) and can sit back there (and did for one three-hour ride) indefinitely. He did note that he was pretty much on the headliner. Some cars are much better in this regard.

5) In another electrical irony, the in-car fuse panel is hopelessly inaccessible. It's up under the panel, sort of above where your left foot rests while driving. A few months back, I blew a fuse when my cell phone's cord shorted out. What should be a five minute (or less) swap was a monster ordeal. Try jamming your head up (down?) there, while wearing reading glasses so you can see...
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Well, these are a few ACTUAL, real-world, not-made-up gripes about the Prius. Hope you all enjoy considering these. And now, perhaps, I won't be seen as such a Prius partisan.
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Elkpolk, no worries, you like the car and are enthusiastic about it. It was your enthusiasm that made me go try one for myself. We all have cars we love and we love to talk about them.
 
Oh, I know. I just thought I'd put out some of these so people would have a more realistic idea about the car. A lot of us are very enthusiastic about our Prii, and I wanted to show that as good as it is, the car is by no means perfect. Now, if they add a perpetual motion drive to the next version, that will be a perfect car.
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I just read that the next generation Prius is going to be a plug-in hybrid. That's a nice inmprovement, but do you think it's really needed ekpolk?
 
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
I just read that the next generation Prius is going to be a plug-in hybrid. That's a nice inmprovement, but do you think it's really needed ekpolk?


I'm not sure it's really "needed" in any true sense. The main "edge" that the current hybrids enjoy as compared to conventional cars is their ability to recapture and re-use energy that other cars throw away in their brake systems. Plugging in is just another form of adding externally sourced fuel (energy) to the car (the main way being, of course, to add gasoline). Plugging in may defer the use of some gasoline, but of unlike "regen" energy, which is in essence "free" power, you pay for the plug-in electricity just as you do for gasoline.

The other issue with plug in is that, at least with the current batteries, is that they really can't add all that much. The current battery design is really only a short-term energy buffer, as opposed to a large capacity store. So even if you charge the bettery as much as the computer will allow, that will only take you a few miles. Perhaps with the coming lithium technology, bulk capacity will grow to where plugging in will make more of a difference.
 
Originally Posted By: ekpolk
In another electrical irony, the in-car fuse panel is hopelessly inaccessible. It's up under the panel, sort of above where your left foot rests while driving.


The Ford Contour/Mercury Mystique has the fuse panel in the same location, except that it's hinged so it swings down when you push the release button, at which point you can easily see all the fuses. I think I once hit the release button with my foot. I also hit the brake light switch with my foot, too, knocking it loose (easy enough to fix). I have big feet.
 
Thanks, ekpolk. Good points. I never cared much for Hybrid vehicles until recently because I am involved in the new GM Tahoe/Yukon Hybrids. I've learned a lot and am proud of this technology (which is shared with other automakers jointly) - leaps and bounds over the others.

If you're ever in Texas, I'll show you the build process and a let you drive one.
 
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Thanks, I might just take you up on that if I get over your way. Now, let's see if GM can beat Toyota and be the first to get a perpetual motion drive into a production car!
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Oh yeah, one semi-serious note: if you're involved in the making of GM hybrids, and you ever hear anyone suggesting that a neoprene rubber bladder in the gas tank is a good idea, shoot that person on the spot! Hey, you're in Texas -- you can do that sort of thing there, right?
 
Originally Posted By: ekpolk
Thanks, I might just take you up on that if I get over your way. Now, let's see if GM can beat Toyota and be the first to get a perpetual motion drive into a production car!
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Oh yeah, one semi-serious note: if you're involved in the making of GM hybrids, and you ever hear anyone suggesting that a neoprene rubber bladder in the gas tank is a good idea, shoot that person on the spot! Hey, you're in Texas -- you can do that sort of thing there, right?


That's funny. Yes, we can carry guns legally with a permit and I do. Fortunately, the Hybrids use the regular gas tanks.
 
that bladder tank is an absolute pain...even when not cold.

I like ekpolk's list...mirrors my own experience.

The passenger sensor (rings a bell if the passenger isn't belted up) is too sensitive and rings when my work bag is put in the passenger seat.
 
Actually, I think fuel bladders are an awesome idea in theory -- you shouldn't have to worry about the tank rust getting in the fuel, and it will "drink" the last bit of fuel easily, whereas a regular tank will develop a vacuum, yet might still have some inaccessible fuel sloshing around when the tube starts sucking wind.

Expansion could be a problem. I'm not sure why some people feel the need to fill their tanks all the way to the gas cap, but that's dumb. Just add a couple gallons when you get low, and don't necessarily wait for the pump to kick off.

Hybrids require a certain kind of maturity and conscientiousness that'll always make them wrong for some drivers. That said, I won't know if I qualify until I actually buy one. I really dig the ideas, though...
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- Scott
 
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Nicely written. Thanks.

So item #1....I was chuckling, sorry - I just imagined a nice jacket soaked with petrol up to the armpit.... This is most likely to happen:

1) On your way to work.
2) On your way to an interview.
3) During your first date with Suzy Wong.
4) When you are trying to impress your neighbor, the ecoterrorist.
 
Originally Posted By: ekpolk
Plugging in may defer the use of some gasoline, but of unlike "regen" energy, which is in essence "free" power, you pay for the plug-in electricity just as you do for gasoline.

The other issue with plug in is that, at least with the current batteries, is that they really can't add all that much.

While not free obviously, the 'gasoline equivalent' cost of adding energy by plugging it in works out to under $1/gallon. Last year I went to an SAE panel discussion on plug-in hybrids attended by Ron Gremban of Cal-Cars that was very interesting. With a few extra wet cell batteries in the spare tire area, they're getting 100+ MPG: Link to Cal-Cars
 
Yeah Pablo, it happened to me on my first day with the car; on delivery actually. When I got the car, the gas gauge was flashing one "cube," the warning that you're almost out (display consists of ten little green cubes that go out as the fuel drops, then the last one starts to flash when you're really close). Anyway, the dealer sends me down to their contract outlet for a free fill. I knew little about the car, and of course wanted as much "free" gas as I could get, so I topped it to the extreme, wondering what all that creaking and hissing was as I added the last gallon or so. When I pulled the nozzle, I found out.

I'd venture to guess that the gallon or so of gas I lost in a memorable horizontal impersonation of Old Faithful probably caused more evaporative pollution than the bladder has saved during the rest of my ownership of this car.

Yes, fueling your Prius while holding your cell phone in one hand and a cigarette in the other is an especially bad idea...
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Tosh:

Good points there. The CalCars folks are doing some interesting work. There are also some "freelancers" who have some really cool parallel battery setups (as well as complete battery transplants).

Again, the key to making a plug-in hybrid worthwhile would seem to be capacity. Since I need my car to remain a practical, reliable, everyday car; AND since I lack the hands-on experience to dare to mess with the car's nervous system, like most people, I'm "stuck" with the car's basic benefit -- the current NiMH battery serving as a short-term, lower capacity "energy buffer". Although estimates vary as to present capacity, the longest electric only run I've mustered is in the neighborhood of two miles. Theoretically, five or so should be available. So you see, the present battery is more intended to soak up several decels/brakings worth of power, and re-apply it to the very next accel. So for an unmodded Prius-II, the plug in capability would add little. Now, if we get those higher capacity batteries (without the fire risk...) in the next car, that may change the analysis.
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Originally Posted By: Tosh
Originally Posted By: ekpolk
Plugging in may defer the use of some gasoline, but of unlike "regen" energy, which is in essence "free" power, you pay for the plug-in electricity just as you do for gasoline.

The other issue with plug in is that, at least with the current batteries, is that they really can't add all that much.

While not free obviously, the 'gasoline equivalent' cost of adding energy by plugging it in works out to under $1/gallon. Last year I went to an SAE panel discussion on plug-in hybrids attended by Ron Gremban of Cal-Cars that was very interesting. With a few extra wet cell batteries in the spare tire area, they're getting 100+ MPG: Link to Cal-Cars


That 100+MPG number is pure marketing [censored]. If the car is running of another external power source part of the time, then it's dishonest to credit those miles to MPG.

They could just as will restrict their selves to short trips (or add batteries), run off only the batteries and claim infinite MPG.

The reason they don't do that is that it would be a big enough [censored] that too many people would catch on.
 
Originally Posted By: ekpolk
Yeah Pablo, it happened to me on my first day with the car; on delivery actually. ....... When I pulled the nozzle, I found out.

I'd venture to guess that the gallon or so of gas I lost in a memorable horizontal impersonation of Old Faithful......


So, did you get any onya?
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Originally Posted By: ekpolk
...The Prius is often accused of being a slug in the acceleration department. While the car is no rocket (Road&Track calls it a 10.5 sec 0-60), most folks miss the real "issue" which is that its acceleration performance changes with the state of charge in the traction battery. If you catch it with a hot battery (green in the charge display) the car actually feels pretty zippy, which makes sense since the big motor-gen is applying its full monster torque (downstream, btw, from the gearing of the trans)...


I knew that it had to be more than just an aberration.. Here's an account of our SX4's first encounter with a Prius.
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Smoked by a Prius!
I still blame our 'Fly by Wire' throttle, and the unwillingness to put our "foot to the floor" on a brand new car.
We also have the A-Pillar blind-spot, and our 11.9 gallon fuel tank will spit-up on you if you overfill it.
 
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