A word of caution regarding Valvoline Maxlife ATF

[Imp4]

So I think the OP's expectation is that Valvoline warranties each transmission where a customer uses it's product, as long as Valvoline claims their product is safe for use in said application.

I think the challenge here is that there are too many factors that Valvoline cannot control with respect to AT operation.

Frankly, I don't blame them one bit. There is way too much exposure here from Valvoline's side to make it worthwhile.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by dnewton3
I do believe Valvoline is on the cusp of a violation of the M/M Act because they do not make it conspicuously known that the Maxlife ATF product has no warranty.

Well you can believe that all you want but Valvoline clearly disagrees and puts that disagreement in writing, and apparently supports their statement with additional resources.

 

[CharBaby]

Thank you for doing this indeed!

 

[slo town]

Originally Posted by dnewton3
Again - for those not paying attention, or wanting to think I'm product bashing ...
I AM NOT SAYING THIS PRODUCT IS BAD OR UNSUITABLE FOR USE.

What I'm saying is that if your vehicle is under OEM warranty, Valvoline is going to push you to deal with the OEM and not warrant their product.
If your vehicle is no longer under OEM warranty, Valvoline will "stand behind" their product by offering no warranty, implied or written.
Those are the facts we can glean from their PI sheet and their reply to my question about warranty.
I offer nothing more or less than facts.


I do believe Valvoline is on the cusp of a violation of the M/M Act because they do not make it conspicuously known that the Maxlife ATF product has no warranty.



I find it perplexing that many people here would argue about filter warranties, and then ignore this topic as if it has no consequences. What an odd bunch of hypocrites some BITOGers are ...

Two comments:

1) If your transmission fails while under the OEM warranty, why would you expect Valvoline to warrant the transmission? If you changed the ATF within the OEM warranty period, and you used Valvoline and the Valvoline product you used met the required OEM specifications, any failure of the transmission would most certainly be because the transmission itself was faulty.
2) If your vehicle is out of OEM warranty, why would you expect Vavloine to extend the transmission warranty beyond what the OEM offered?

For example, my wife's 2011 BMW E90. It's got a 6 speed GM auto. I change the ATF every 20k miles, using Kendall D6 ATF. The vehicle has 90k miles on it now. The vehicle is long out of factory OEM warranty. Suppose the transmission failed. Would you expect Kendall to warrant it because I used their oil? Not!

Scott

 

[Hall]

Originally Posted by dnewton3
I believe I've bought my last bottle of any Valvoline product.

What product do you plan to use instead of this ?

 

[doitmyself]

Does this Valvoline product warranty mean anything: https://media.napaonline.com/is/content/GenuinePartsCompany/1661827pdf?$PDF$

VALVOLINE LIMITED LUBRICANTS WARRANTY

Ashland Consumer Markets ("Valvoline") warrants all Valvoline lubricants against failure in engine or equipment service so long as:

•The Valvoline lubricant meets the manufacturer's specifications for the service, or has been specifically recommended for that service by Valvoline.
•The engine or equipment is operated within the limits of speed, load, temperature, etc. for which the Valvoline lubricant is specified or recommended.
•The engine or equipment and vehicle are under a program of regular, scheduled and documented maintenance and test protocols (if required) fulfilling the manufacturer's service recommendations.

If Valvoline lubricant is proven to be directly responsible for engine or equipment failure under these conditions, Valvoline will restore the equipment to normal performance. This warranty is in lieu of all other warranties and Valvoline hereby disclaims all liabilities for indirect or consequential damages. Some states may not allow the exclusion or limitation of incidental or consequential damages, so that exclusion/limitation may not apply to you. This limited warranty gives you specific legal rights. You may have other rights that vary from state to state. Valvoline reserves the right to inspect the damaged engine or equipment, take samples, run tests, and examine all related documentation it deems necessary to determine cause of failure. To notify Valvoline of a warranty claim, contact Valvoline Product Support at 1-800-TEAM-VAL (1-800-832-6825).

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by SLO_Town
Originally Posted by dnewton3
Again - for those not paying attention, or wanting to think I'm product bashing ...
I AM NOT SAYING THIS PRODUCT IS BAD OR UNSUITABLE FOR USE.

What I'm saying is that if your vehicle is under OEM warranty, Valvoline is going to push you to deal with the OEM and not warrant their product.
If your vehicle is no longer under OEM warranty, Valvoline will "stand behind" their product by offering no warranty, implied or written.
Those are the facts we can glean from their PI sheet and their reply to my question about warranty.
I offer nothing more or less than facts.


I do believe Valvoline is on the cusp of a violation of the M/M Act because they do not make it conspicuously known that the Maxlife ATF product has no warranty.



I find it perplexing that many people here would argue about filter warranties, and then ignore this topic as if it has no consequences. What an odd bunch of hypocrites some BITOGers are ...

Two comments:

1) If your transmission fails while under the OEM warranty, why would you expect Valvoline to warrant the transmission? If you changed the ATF within the OEM warranty period, and you used Valvoline and the Valvoline product you used met the required OEM specifications, any failure of the transmission would most certainly be because the transmission itself was faulty.
2) If your vehicle is out of OEM warranty, why would you expect Vavloine to extend the transmission warranty beyond what the OEM offered?

For example, my wife's 2011 BMW E90. It's got a 6 speed GM auto. I change the ATF every 20k miles, using Kendall D6 ATF. The vehicle has 90k miles on it now. The vehicle is long out of factory OEM warranty. Suppose the transmission failed. Would you expect Kendall to warrant it because I used their oil? Not!

Scott


I believe his expectation was that if there was an issue that could be traced back to the fluid, that Valvoline would cover that issue. That's almost implied with the "call us if not under warranty" line that was cited. However, this is clearly not the case based on his correspondence so Valvoline should really be forthcoming about this that, in the event of failure outside of OEM-covered warranty, in no way will Valvoline be held liable, regardless of whether the fluid is to be determined to be at fault or not.

That's my take anyways

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted by dnewton3
Again - for those not paying attention, or wanting to think I'm product bashing ...
I AM NOT SAYING THIS PRODUCT IS BAD OR UNSUITABLE FOR USE.

What I'm saying is that if your vehicle is under OEM warranty, Valvoline is going to push you to deal with the OEM and not warrant their product.
If your vehicle is no longer under OEM warranty, Valvoline will "stand behind" their product by offering no warranty, implied or written.
Those are the facts we can glean from their PI sheet and their reply to my question about warranty.
I offer nothing more or less than facts.


I do believe Valvoline is on the cusp of a violation of the M/M Act because they do not make it conspicuously known that the Maxlife ATF product has no warranty.



I find it perplexing that many people here would argue about filter warranties, and then ignore this topic as if it has no consequences. What an odd bunch of hypocrites some BITOGers are ...



It looks to me like if you use the product and have a problem you will be SOL. Valvoline according to the statement sent to you clearly states they don't guarantee the product, in any way, shape, or form. My bet is if a problem arose and it went to court, their statement will hold up for them. As far as the car maker, unless they state specifically Maxlife ATF is good for their application, I'd bet they're off the hook too. Some may disagree. I gamble to a point, but that's a bet I wouldn't want to take. Not when I can buy an fluid I know for a fact meets the mfg spec. Case in point ATF+4 for both my Jeeps, no way am I putting a one size fits all universal fluid like Maxlife ATF in either of them. I did use Maxlife ATF with good results in a 2000 Buick, but after reading this I'd pass on it now.

Interesting comments about the MM act, I can't really comment one way or the other about it.

 

[Hall]

Originally Posted by dnewton3
I do believe Valvoline is on the cusp of a violation of the M/M Act because they do not make it conspicuously known that the Maxlife ATF product has no warranty.
When do you plan to contact the FTC about this ?

Originally Posted by dnewton3
What an odd bunch of hypocrites some BITOGers are ...
Ouch....

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

#1 Does any ATF fluid come with a warranty? If so which one and what do they warrant?

#2 Do other ATF's explicitly state no warranty?

#3 Valvoline does explicitly offer a route for a potential remedy by their offering a contact number for units which developed a problem on their fluid.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
#1 Does any ATF fluid come with a warranty? If so which one and what do they warrant?

#2 Do other ATF's explicitly state no warranty?

#3 Valvoline does explicitly offer a route for a potential remedy by their offering a contact number for units which developed a problem on their fluid.


https://mobiloil.com/en/article/warranties/limited-warranty/mobil-atf-limited-warranty

Originally Posted by Mobil 1
ExxonMobil Fuels & Lubricants Company, a division of Exxon Mobil Corporation ("ExxonMobil"), provides this limited warranty to purchasers who use Mobilâ„¢-branded automatic transmission fluids in their vehicles. This limited warranty covers the fluid and the critical transmission parts lubricated by the fluid. ExxonMobil warrants its automatic transmission fluids to be free from defects and that the fluid you purchased will protect your vehicle's critical transmission from lubricant related failure.

Be advised that if your vehicle is covered by a warranty, you should follow the vehicle's automatic transmission fluid change interval recommended in your owner's manual to avoid a disruption in your vehicle warranty. Follow your owner's manual if the vehicle is operated in any of the following severe services: racing or commercial applications including taxis, limousines, etc.; frequent towing or hauling; extremely dusty or dirty conditions; or under excessive idling conditions.


Originally Posted by Mobil 1

What we will do to correct problems
ExxonMobil will replace any Mobil-branded automatic transmission fluid that is defective. In addition, if there is equipment failure due to the fluid you purchased, and the transmission was serviceable at the time the fluid was installed, ExxonMobil will repair any equipment damage directly caused by a defect or malfunction of the fluid, at no cost to you, provided that the fluid was selected and maintained in accordance with specifications of the OEM or the written instructions (which includes product packaging) of ExxonMobil.


I think Dave is quite reasonable to expect something similar from Valvoline.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by SLO_Town
Originally Posted by dnewton3
Again - for those not paying attention, or wanting to think I'm product bashing ...
I AM NOT SAYING THIS PRODUCT IS BAD OR UNSUITABLE FOR USE.

What I'm saying is that if your vehicle is under OEM warranty, Valvoline is going to push you to deal with the OEM and not warrant their product.
If your vehicle is no longer under OEM warranty, Valvoline will "stand behind" their product by offering no warranty, implied or written.
Those are the facts we can glean from their PI sheet and their reply to my question about warranty.
I offer nothing more or less than facts.


I do believe Valvoline is on the cusp of a violation of the M/M Act because they do not make it conspicuously known that the Maxlife ATF product has no warranty.



I find it perplexing that many people here would argue about filter warranties, and then ignore this topic as if it has no consequences. What an odd bunch of hypocrites some BITOGers are ...

Two comments:

1) If your transmission fails while under the OEM warranty, why would you expect Valvoline to warrant the transmission? If you changed the ATF within the OEM warranty period, and you used Valvoline and the Valvoline product you used met the required OEM specifications, any failure of the transmission would most certainly be because the transmission itself was faulty.
2) If your vehicle is out of OEM warranty, why would you expect Vavloine to extend the transmission warranty beyond what the OEM offered?

For example, my wife's 2011 BMW E90. It's got a 6 speed GM auto. I change the ATF every 20k miles, using Kendall D6 ATF. The vehicle has 90k miles on it now. The vehicle is long out of factory OEM warranty. Suppose the transmission failed. Would you expect Kendall to warrant it because I used their oil? Not!

Scott


I wonder how that would work with a company such as ZF. ZF explicitly states that for the 6HP and newer that there are no "equivalents" to their Lifeguard ATF. So in your example of an "in warranty" BMW with the 8HP, I wonder if they could deny a warranty replacement on the basis that the transmission manufacturer states states there's no equivalent fluid. Keep in mind that BMW considers the transmission as a non-serviceable part within the useful life of the vehicle (IIRC govt standard is 100k or 120k miles).

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
#1 Does any ATF fluid come with a warranty? If so which one and what do they warrant?

#2 Do other ATF's explicitly state no warranty?

#3 Valvoline does explicitly offer a route for a potential remedy by their offering a contact number for units which developed a problem on their fluid.


https://mobiloil.com/en/article/warranties/limited-warranty/mobil-atf-limited-warranty

Originally Posted by Mobil 1
ExxonMobil Fuels & Lubricants Company, a division of Exxon Mobil Corporation ("ExxonMobil"), provides this limited warranty to purchasers who use Mobilâ„¢-branded automatic transmission fluids in their vehicles. This limited warranty covers the fluid and the critical transmission parts lubricated by the fluid. ExxonMobil warrants its automatic transmission fluids to be free from defects and that the fluid you purchased will protect your vehicle's critical transmission from lubricant related failure.

Be advised that if your vehicle is covered by a warranty, you should follow the vehicle's automatic transmission fluid change interval recommended in your owner's manual to avoid a disruption in your vehicle warranty. Follow your owner's manual if the vehicle is operated in any of the following severe services: racing or commercial applications including taxis, limousines, etc.; frequent towing or hauling; extremely dusty or dirty conditions; or under excessive idling conditions.


Originally Posted by Mobil 1

What we will do to correct problems
ExxonMobil will replace any Mobil-branded automatic transmission fluid that is defective. In addition, if there is equipment failure due to the fluid you purchased, and the transmission was serviceable at the time the fluid was installed, ExxonMobil will repair any equipment damage directly caused by a defect or malfunction of the fluid, at no cost to you, provided that the fluid was selected and maintained in accordance with specifications of the OEM or the written instructions (which includes product packaging) of ExxonMobil.


I think Dave is quite reasonable to expect something similar from Valvoline.



Which essentially mirrors the statement by Valvoline corporate (post #5314615) but I'm talking about on the bottles themselves (i.e. conspicuously visible)

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
#1 Does any ATF fluid come with a warranty? If so which one and what do they warrant?

#2 Do other ATF's explicitly state no warranty?

#3 Valvoline does explicitly offer a route for a potential remedy by their offering a contact number for units which developed a problem on their fluid.


https://mobiloil.com/en/article/warranties/limited-warranty/mobil-atf-limited-warranty

Originally Posted by Mobil 1
ExxonMobil Fuels & Lubricants Company, a division of Exxon Mobil Corporation ("ExxonMobil"), provides this limited warranty to purchasers who use Mobilâ„¢-branded automatic transmission fluids in their vehicles. This limited warranty covers the fluid and the critical transmission parts lubricated by the fluid. ExxonMobil warrants its automatic transmission fluids to be free from defects and that the fluid you purchased will protect your vehicle's critical transmission from lubricant related failure.

Be advised that if your vehicle is covered by a warranty, you should follow the vehicle's automatic transmission fluid change interval recommended in your owner's manual to avoid a disruption in your vehicle warranty. Follow your owner's manual if the vehicle is operated in any of the following severe services: racing or commercial applications including taxis, limousines, etc.; frequent towing or hauling; extremely dusty or dirty conditions; or under excessive idling conditions.


Originally Posted by Mobil 1

What we will do to correct problems
ExxonMobil will replace any Mobil-branded automatic transmission fluid that is defective. In addition, if there is equipment failure due to the fluid you purchased, and the transmission was serviceable at the time the fluid was installed, ExxonMobil will repair any equipment damage directly caused by a defect or malfunction of the fluid, at no cost to you, provided that the fluid was selected and maintained in accordance with specifications of the OEM or the written instructions (which includes product packaging) of ExxonMobil.


I think Dave is quite reasonable to expect something similar from Valvoline.



Which essentially mirrors the statement by Valvoline corporate (per NAPA?) but I'm talking about on the bottles themselves.


It definitely doesn't mirror what Dave quoted from Valvoline in the OP however.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
#1 Does any ATF fluid come with a warranty? If so which one and what do they warrant?

#2 Do other ATF's explicitly state no warranty?

#3 Valvoline does explicitly offer a route for a potential remedy by their offering a contact number for units which developed a problem on their fluid.


https://mobiloil.com/en/article/warranties/limited-warranty/mobil-atf-limited-warranty

Originally Posted by Mobil 1
ExxonMobil Fuels & Lubricants Company, a division of Exxon Mobil Corporation ("ExxonMobil"), provides this limited warranty to purchasers who use Mobilâ„¢-branded automatic transmission fluids in their vehicles. This limited warranty covers the fluid and the critical transmission parts lubricated by the fluid. ExxonMobil warrants its automatic transmission fluids to be free from defects and that the fluid you purchased will protect your vehicle's critical transmission from lubricant related failure.

Be advised that if your vehicle is covered by a warranty, you should follow the vehicle's automatic transmission fluid change interval recommended in your owner's manual to avoid a disruption in your vehicle warranty. Follow your owner's manual if the vehicle is operated in any of the following severe services: racing or commercial applications including taxis, limousines, etc.; frequent towing or hauling; extremely dusty or dirty conditions; or under excessive idling conditions.


Originally Posted by Mobil 1

What we will do to correct problems
ExxonMobil will replace any Mobil-branded automatic transmission fluid that is defective. In addition, if there is equipment failure due to the fluid you purchased, and the transmission was serviceable at the time the fluid was installed, ExxonMobil will repair any equipment damage directly caused by a defect or malfunction of the fluid, at no cost to you, provided that the fluid was selected and maintained in accordance with specifications of the OEM or the written instructions (which includes product packaging) of ExxonMobil.


I think Dave is quite reasonable to expect something similar from Valvoline.



Which essentially mirrors the statement by Valvoline corporate (per NAPA?) but I'm talking about on the bottles themselves.


It definitely doesn't mirror what Dave quoted from Valvoline in the OP however.


Of course, but would this default answer really bee all that surprising?

 

[PimTac]

In many automatic transmissions these days the prudent thing might be to stick with OEM fluid.


After reading part of that old mega thread linked earlier I wonder what happened to Oil Changer ?

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl


Of course, but would this default answer really bee all that surprising?


Well, I'd expect that at the least, they'd mirror the warranty statement from the website, IE, if I e-mailed Mobil, I'd expect a link to what I linked, as well as the same verbiage

 

[Overfill]

[deleted]

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by SLO_Town
Originally Posted by dnewton3
Again - for those not paying attention, or wanting to think I'm product bashing ...
I AM NOT SAYING THIS PRODUCT IS BAD OR UNSUITABLE FOR USE.

What I'm saying is that if your vehicle is under OEM warranty, Valvoline is going to push you to deal with the OEM and not warrant their product.
If your vehicle is no longer under OEM warranty, Valvoline will "stand behind" their product by offering no warranty, implied or written.
Those are the facts we can glean from their PI sheet and their reply to my question about warranty.
I offer nothing more or less than facts.


I do believe Valvoline is on the cusp of a violation of the M/M Act because they do not make it conspicuously known that the Maxlife ATF product has no warranty.



I find it perplexing that many people here would argue about filter warranties, and then ignore this topic as if it has no consequences. What an odd bunch of hypocrites some BITOGers are ...

Two comments:

1) If your transmission fails while under the OEM warranty, why would you expect Valvoline to warrant the transmission? If you changed the ATF within the OEM warranty period, and you used Valvoline and the Valvoline product you used met the required OEM specifications, any failure of the transmission would most certainly be because the transmission itself was faulty.
2) If your vehicle is out of OEM warranty, why would you expect Vavloine to extend the transmission warranty beyond what the OEM offered?

For example, my wife's 2011 BMW E90. It's got a 6 speed GM auto. I change the ATF every 20k miles, using Kendall D6 ATF. The vehicle has 90k miles on it now. The vehicle is long out of factory OEM warranty. Suppose the transmission failed. Would you expect Kendall to warrant it because I used their oil? Not!

Scott


I wonder how that would work with a company such as ZF. ZF explicitly states that for the 6HP and newer that there are no "equivalents" to their Lifeguard ATF. So in your example of an "in warranty" BMW with the 8HP, I wonder if they could deny a warranty replacement on the basis that the transmission manufacturer states states there's no equivalent fluid. Keep in mind that BMW considers the transmission as a non-serviceable part within the useful life of the vehicle (IIRC govt standard is 100k or 120k miles).

My bet is the owner of said vehicle would be coughing up some big money for a transmission.

 

[4WD]

You did not bash anything - just raised awareness - Going to be reading up and try to learn a bit more
Now using Valvoline ML, AC Delco (Mobil) and Castrol MV.
Thanks for post.