A Vtec Honda/Acura can actually be pretty fast for what they are with out FI. A RSX type S can run 14s in the 1/4 mile bone stock that's knocking on a LT1 Camaros door. Honda has held world records for most hp per cubic inch of any NA car. Some K series engines make 230hp NA out of a 2.0L and the F20c makes 240 out of a 2.0L 300hp is pretty attainable NA. I'm not gonna mention turbos just because anything can be fast with a turbo or nitrous. With that said the ricer crowd you see running around the streets are nothing to write home about. I don't understand the point of making the car look fast or sound really aloud and annoying. I especially don't understand the whole extreme camber thing.
A few 'Ricer' car questions...
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Originally Posted By: Tim4mods
I especially don't understand the whole extreme camber thing.
From my own experience with slight negative camber issues I surmise that those employing negative camber are supportive of the tire industry. Extreme negative camber, as I have seen on riced up vehicles guarantees frequent trips to the local tire emporium, thus ensuring continued prosperity for the black rubber industry.
So, you could call these folks "charitable."
I especially don't understand the whole extreme camber thing.
From my own experience with slight negative camber issues I surmise that those employing negative camber are supportive of the tire industry. Extreme negative camber, as I have seen on riced up vehicles guarantees frequent trips to the local tire emporium, thus ensuring continued prosperity for the black rubber industry.
So, you could call these folks "charitable."
Propflux01
$100 Site Donor 2025
Originally Posted By: sciphi
Typical "ricer" mods are ..... a giant wing on the trunk.
We call those park benches around here!!
Typical "ricer" mods are ..... a giant wing on the trunk.
We call those park benches around here!!
I'm a big fan of Hondas especially the 1999 & 2000 Civic Si, also the 06-11 SI. I think they are decently quick but are not for all out speed. I love the 1.6 in the 99-00 Si that makes 160hp I find that pretty impressive (for it's time). However, I don't agree with the loud exhausts, lowered ride height, and carbon fiber everything. If I ever find a 99-00 Si that hasn't been molested (rare) I would keep it stock.
Originally Posted By: surfstar
But, as they say, its more fun to drive a slow car fast, than a fast car slow.
My Mazdaspeed is fun, but in an entirely different way from the Club Sport. On the track the Bimmer rewards smooth precise driving; conservation of momentum is critical. In contrast, tracking the MS3 is akin to obedience training an ADHD Pit Bull mainlining crystal meth. It's exhilarating but exhausting- and the 24 bhp added by the Mazdaspeed intake makes it even more manic.
But at the end of the day, the Club Sport is the car that made me a better driver.
But, as they say, its more fun to drive a slow car fast, than a fast car slow.
My Mazdaspeed is fun, but in an entirely different way from the Club Sport. On the track the Bimmer rewards smooth precise driving; conservation of momentum is critical. In contrast, tracking the MS3 is akin to obedience training an ADHD Pit Bull mainlining crystal meth. It's exhilarating but exhausting- and the 24 bhp added by the Mazdaspeed intake makes it even more manic.
But at the end of the day, the Club Sport is the car that made me a better driver.
To the uninitiated or simply uncaring, a "ricer" can range anywhere from a clapped out Civic HF with a [censored] can, all the way to a fire-belching Mitsu Evo. Of course, if you're an enthusiast or into the scene, you can pick them out. For those that aren't, sometimes the broad brush is used.
"Oh, it's louder than a whisper and it's not a V8? RICER!" isn't a very accurate sentiment.
Would you call a clapped out 1984 Monte Carlo with a tired 305 and parts store glass-packs a muscle car? That would be a fair comparison to a true "ricer".
"Oh, it's louder than a whisper and it's not a V8? RICER!" isn't a very accurate sentiment.
Would you call a clapped out 1984 Monte Carlo with a tired 305 and parts store glass-packs a muscle car? That would be a fair comparison to a true "ricer".
Nothing faster than a 4 banger with some stickers on it...oh and a loud muffler.
This is an interesting subset of the car world, where its all about the illusion of speed. Very similar to the brodozzer truck guys where the off road prowess is again based on illusion.
Totally different from my favorite kind of vehicle, a Q ship.
This is an interesting subset of the car world, where its all about the illusion of speed. Very similar to the brodozzer truck guys where the off road prowess is again based on illusion.
Totally different from my favorite kind of vehicle, a Q ship.
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Originally Posted By: DBMaster
Originally Posted By: Tim4mods
I especially don't understand the whole extreme camber thing.
From my own experience with slight negative camber issues I surmise that those employing negative camber are supportive of the tire industry. Extreme negative camber, as I have seen on riced up vehicles guarantees frequent trips to the local tire emporium, thus ensuring continued prosperity for the black rubber industry.
So, you could call these folks "charitable."
Extreme negative cambers, and I mean EXTREME, is a signature of the "stance" or "hellaflush" movement.
Don't confuse them with ricers. Ricers end up with excessive negative camber because they either don't know any better or simply don't care about correcting the alignment when lowering ride height.
One of the goals of stance is the extreme negative camber. It's not because they don't know or don't care. That is what they *want* the car to look like.
Two other trademarks of stance is "stretch", the use of a narrow tire on a wide wheel, forcing the tire sidewall to be stretched to seat the bead, and "poke", where the wheel extends slightly beyond the fender line. The counterpart to "poke" is "tuck", where the wheel is tucked into the fenderwell instead of extending beyond it. Often, you'll see the really extreme camber angles when trying to tuck a very wide wheel.
Another big difference is the type of vehicle that gets this treatment. Audi, VW, and BMW are incredibly popular to stance. Lexus, Infiniti, Mercedes Benz, Subaru WRX, Mitsu Evo, Miata, Mazda RX7, and Nissan Silvia are also popular. Sure, people stance Honda's and Acura's, but it is generally a trend applied to more up-market cars.
Questionable aesthetics aside, this leads to a generally unsafe vehicle. It ends up with incredibly suspect handling due to the extreme suspension angles cause by the low ride height and camber. Unseating a bead is a real concern when trying to stretch narrow tires over a wide wheel. Also unfortunate is the quality of work that some people and shops put into the vehicle trying to achieve such a look. Shoddy would be generous.
Originally Posted By: Tim4mods
I especially don't understand the whole extreme camber thing.
From my own experience with slight negative camber issues I surmise that those employing negative camber are supportive of the tire industry. Extreme negative camber, as I have seen on riced up vehicles guarantees frequent trips to the local tire emporium, thus ensuring continued prosperity for the black rubber industry.
So, you could call these folks "charitable."
Extreme negative cambers, and I mean EXTREME, is a signature of the "stance" or "hellaflush" movement.
Don't confuse them with ricers. Ricers end up with excessive negative camber because they either don't know any better or simply don't care about correcting the alignment when lowering ride height.
One of the goals of stance is the extreme negative camber. It's not because they don't know or don't care. That is what they *want* the car to look like.
Two other trademarks of stance is "stretch", the use of a narrow tire on a wide wheel, forcing the tire sidewall to be stretched to seat the bead, and "poke", where the wheel extends slightly beyond the fender line. The counterpart to "poke" is "tuck", where the wheel is tucked into the fenderwell instead of extending beyond it. Often, you'll see the really extreme camber angles when trying to tuck a very wide wheel.
Another big difference is the type of vehicle that gets this treatment. Audi, VW, and BMW are incredibly popular to stance. Lexus, Infiniti, Mercedes Benz, Subaru WRX, Mitsu Evo, Miata, Mazda RX7, and Nissan Silvia are also popular. Sure, people stance Honda's and Acura's, but it is generally a trend applied to more up-market cars.
Questionable aesthetics aside, this leads to a generally unsafe vehicle. It ends up with incredibly suspect handling due to the extreme suspension angles cause by the low ride height and camber. Unseating a bead is a real concern when trying to stretch narrow tires over a wide wheel. Also unfortunate is the quality of work that some people and shops put into the vehicle trying to achieve such a look. Shoddy would be generous.
Originally Posted By: cchase
Originally Posted By: gregk24
However my 2.4 i-vtec Accord does keep with if not surpass most GM V6 cars.
I suppose that's because you drove your parents Chevy Venture and then your Accord and have made a blanket statement.
Originally Posted By: victorkoga
Can civics go fast ? yep the fast fwd civics are in the 7's. By any ones definition that is smoking fast. A ricer can be any car decked out in vatozone gear you will know a ricer when you see it
Civics in the 7's aren't driving around on the street. If you put a big enough engine in a tractor you could probably get it to run 7's as well, but when does a car become something other than its badge? Once you're swapping motors I'd say it starts to get kind of hazy.
No not at all, Im comparing it to the Malibu V6 and Impala V6 of that year, look up some 0-60's and you will see what I am talking about. The 2.4 wins. Its an Uplander by the way.
Originally Posted By: gregk24
However my 2.4 i-vtec Accord does keep with if not surpass most GM V6 cars.
I suppose that's because you drove your parents Chevy Venture and then your Accord and have made a blanket statement.
Originally Posted By: victorkoga
Can civics go fast ? yep the fast fwd civics are in the 7's. By any ones definition that is smoking fast. A ricer can be any car decked out in vatozone gear you will know a ricer when you see it
Civics in the 7's aren't driving around on the street. If you put a big enough engine in a tractor you could probably get it to run 7's as well, but when does a car become something other than its badge? Once you're swapping motors I'd say it starts to get kind of hazy.
No not at all, Im comparing it to the Malibu V6 and Impala V6 of that year, look up some 0-60's and you will see what I am talking about. The 2.4 wins. Its an Uplander by the way.
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Originally Posted By: MCompact
Originally Posted By: renegade_987
I've seen a few Civics that actually look kinda nice all done up, but not alot. What is all of this 'JDM' business also?
Japan Domestic Market- they want the car to look exactly like it does in Japan- some have even gone as far as converting their car to right-hand drive.
not only that, but there are usually JDM versions of the cars not available outside of japan, higher HP, Bigger Turbo, a "Super-Turbo"setup, etc. and also you have a lot of those uniquely japanese parts exported after a few years because of the extreme cost of keeping your vehicle inspected after a few years.
(JDM) Japanese Domestic Market - Wikipedia
Motor Vehicle Inpection (Japan) - Wikipedia
Japanese Used Vehicle Exporting - Wikipedia
Originally Posted By: renegade_987
I've seen a few Civics that actually look kinda nice all done up, but not alot. What is all of this 'JDM' business also?
Japan Domestic Market- they want the car to look exactly like it does in Japan- some have even gone as far as converting their car to right-hand drive.
not only that, but there are usually JDM versions of the cars not available outside of japan, higher HP, Bigger Turbo, a "Super-Turbo"setup, etc. and also you have a lot of those uniquely japanese parts exported after a few years because of the extreme cost of keeping your vehicle inspected after a few years.
(JDM) Japanese Domestic Market - Wikipedia
Motor Vehicle Inpection (Japan) - Wikipedia
Japanese Used Vehicle Exporting - Wikipedia
Originally Posted By: surfstar
But, as they say, its more fun to drive a slow car fast, than a fast car slow.
It is more fun, at least for me. I had a 2001 Cadillac STS and my brother had (still has) a 1999 supercharged Corvette. Both "fast" cars for what they are. I traded that Cadillac for a 2007 Corolla with a stick and had more fun driving that Corolla than either of those two "fast" cars. I just knew that I'd never be able to trade that Cadillac away and lose the fun of its Northstar engine, but after I did, I realized that I much preferred a car that would dance than one that goes fast in a straight line.
Of all the cars I've owned, my current CR-V is my favorite. It's not fast. But it's enjoyable to drive. My kids call for me to "make the car dance" when we ride in it.
But, as they say, its more fun to drive a slow car fast, than a fast car slow.
It is more fun, at least for me. I had a 2001 Cadillac STS and my brother had (still has) a 1999 supercharged Corvette. Both "fast" cars for what they are. I traded that Cadillac for a 2007 Corolla with a stick and had more fun driving that Corolla than either of those two "fast" cars. I just knew that I'd never be able to trade that Cadillac away and lose the fun of its Northstar engine, but after I did, I realized that I much preferred a car that would dance than one that goes fast in a straight line.
Of all the cars I've owned, my current CR-V is my favorite. It's not fast. But it's enjoyable to drive. My kids call for me to "make the car dance" when we ride in it.
Originally Posted By: gregk24
No not at all, Im comparing it to the Malibu V6 and Impala V6 of that year, look up some 0-60's and you will see what I am talking about. The 2.4 wins. Its an Uplander by the way.
The only reason the 2.4 Accord is going to win a 0-60 is the 5 speed transmission and probably marginally higher redline. The numbers I am seeing from a quick Google are actually saying 7.8 0-60 for the 2005 Malibu and somewhere between 8.4 and 8.6 seconds for a 2003 2.4 Accord. If you're talking about the V6 Accords, I'd heartily agree. Our J30 is a rocket compared to any domestic V6 of that era.
No not at all, Im comparing it to the Malibu V6 and Impala V6 of that year, look up some 0-60's and you will see what I am talking about. The 2.4 wins. Its an Uplander by the way.
The only reason the 2.4 Accord is going to win a 0-60 is the 5 speed transmission and probably marginally higher redline. The numbers I am seeing from a quick Google are actually saying 7.8 0-60 for the 2005 Malibu and somewhere between 8.4 and 8.6 seconds for a 2003 2.4 Accord. If you're talking about the V6 Accords, I'd heartily agree. Our J30 is a rocket compared to any domestic V6 of that era.
Originally Posted By: Win
Originally Posted By: surfstar
....
But, as they say, its more fun to drive a slow car fast, than a fast car slow.
People with fast cars never say this.
I think on the street, you can have alot more fun in the twisties with a slow car without taking huge risks. If you like stop light antics, then yes, you will have more fun with a fast car.
You should try autocross sometime, a slow miata is more fun to drive than something faster with poor handling.
Originally Posted By: surfstar
....
But, as they say, its more fun to drive a slow car fast, than a fast car slow.
People with fast cars never say this.
I think on the street, you can have alot more fun in the twisties with a slow car without taking huge risks. If you like stop light antics, then yes, you will have more fun with a fast car.
You should try autocross sometime, a slow miata is more fun to drive than something faster with poor handling.
I feel it's an "anti-redneck", "I'm-smarter-than-you-because-I-went-to-college" thing or maybe just a generational gap.
"My parents drove a camaro, I'm way too cool to have something made in the US".
"Consumer Reports says Japanese is the best, so I've taken the smart choice to the next level."
"I have something exotic I had to buy on the internet and wait three weeks for delivery from across the Pacific."
"I have a tune that gives me 30 MPG going to work and 20 more hp on the weekend. Business and party all together."
Luckily none of this is tried in the snow belt. We get projector lamps and altezza tails but the kids here are too poor to wear out tires quickly, and lowered cars get caught on snow banks. Given their rarity, I bet they suffer at state inspection time as well.
"My parents drove a camaro, I'm way too cool to have something made in the US".
"Consumer Reports says Japanese is the best, so I've taken the smart choice to the next level."
"I have something exotic I had to buy on the internet and wait three weeks for delivery from across the Pacific."
"I have a tune that gives me 30 MPG going to work and 20 more hp on the weekend. Business and party all together."
Luckily none of this is tried in the snow belt. We get projector lamps and altezza tails but the kids here are too poor to wear out tires quickly, and lowered cars get caught on snow banks. Given their rarity, I bet they suffer at state inspection time as well.
Originally Posted By: renegade_987
I've seen a few Civics that actually look kinda nice all done up, but not alot. What is all of this 'JDM' business also?
Some JDM mods can be tasteful and serve a purpose.
Some are just
Like the bumper pole.
Are you really that bad at parking? And you put it on the left side of a LHD car.
My favorite was when the Cavalier ricers went JDM. Some Chevrolet Cavaliers were built RHD, imported to Japan and badged as Toyotas. Ricers began to affix Toyota badges to their OHV 2.2 Cavaliers. My favorite "JDM Cavalier" modification? The Kanji embroidered terrycloth wrist bands around the master cylinder. Probably translates to "RICE"
For the record, I drive a "ricer". I have a DC intake, Racing Beat exhaust(deeper tone but quiet), aftermarket wheels, and Steeda swaybars.
Most of the time, I let the Civics and Cavaliers go. But I was very pleased to find that my car would have no problem with them. One body kitted/bad cambered/narrow tire stretched over wide wheels/loud exhaust D17A2 Civic EX was revving on me at every stoplight. He turned on to the freeway entrance ramp with me and unleashed the D-series fury on me. No side streets, good excuse to get to freeway speed....Took me all of one gear to pull from even with his back bumper to in front of him. Two gears and it was obvious that he would never catch me if I kept the pedal down. Lifted off at freeway speed and let him slowly pass with his pedal denting his firewall.
Wish I had been in my PT Cruiser. That would have been really embarrassing for him.
I've seen a few Civics that actually look kinda nice all done up, but not alot. What is all of this 'JDM' business also?
Some JDM mods can be tasteful and serve a purpose.
Some are just
Like the bumper pole.
Are you really that bad at parking? And you put it on the left side of a LHD car.
My favorite was when the Cavalier ricers went JDM. Some Chevrolet Cavaliers were built RHD, imported to Japan and badged as Toyotas. Ricers began to affix Toyota badges to their OHV 2.2 Cavaliers. My favorite "JDM Cavalier" modification? The Kanji embroidered terrycloth wrist bands around the master cylinder. Probably translates to "RICE"
For the record, I drive a "ricer". I have a DC intake, Racing Beat exhaust(deeper tone but quiet), aftermarket wheels, and Steeda swaybars.
Most of the time, I let the Civics and Cavaliers go. But I was very pleased to find that my car would have no problem with them. One body kitted/bad cambered/narrow tire stretched over wide wheels/loud exhaust D17A2 Civic EX was revving on me at every stoplight. He turned on to the freeway entrance ramp with me and unleashed the D-series fury on me. No side streets, good excuse to get to freeway speed....Took me all of one gear to pull from even with his back bumper to in front of him. Two gears and it was obvious that he would never catch me if I kept the pedal down. Lifted off at freeway speed and let him slowly pass with his pedal denting his firewall.
Wish I had been in my PT Cruiser. That would have been really embarrassing for him.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
There's also another way to go. Build a fast car but keep it looking prim and proper. This style is called a "gentleman's express". An example. A friend has an M5 with the badges removed and some other detail work to hide its true identity. It looks like a standard 5 Series BMW but with a lot of work done by a well known tuner this is one very quick and fast car that really handles. Besides the purchase price of a one year old M5 he's put almost $100K into the car including hiding a roll bar in the interior, a fire system, fuel cell, suspension mods and a killer engine. The car still looks normal to everyone except someone that really knows what they might be looking at. The engine mods were so well done that if you keep off the gas pedal it drives just like a stock car and behaves that way as well, until you step on it. They the fun begins.
Opposite end of the spectrum though. The guy slapping a [censored] cannon and taking a cut-off wheel to his springs doesn't have the 200K budget for a ride like your buddy's, LOL
There's also another way to go. Build a fast car but keep it looking prim and proper. This style is called a "gentleman's express". An example. A friend has an M5 with the badges removed and some other detail work to hide its true identity. It looks like a standard 5 Series BMW but with a lot of work done by a well known tuner this is one very quick and fast car that really handles. Besides the purchase price of a one year old M5 he's put almost $100K into the car including hiding a roll bar in the interior, a fire system, fuel cell, suspension mods and a killer engine. The car still looks normal to everyone except someone that really knows what they might be looking at. The engine mods were so well done that if you keep off the gas pedal it drives just like a stock car and behaves that way as well, until you step on it. They the fun begins.
Opposite end of the spectrum though. The guy slapping a [censored] cannon and taking a cut-off wheel to his springs doesn't have the 200K budget for a ride like your buddy's, LOL
^^^We call that a 'sleeper'. QUIET is one of the key attributes of a great sleeper. When I used to race for money a quiet fast car could lure some easy money out to play!
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: MrHorspwer
Originally Posted By: DBMaster
Originally Posted By: Tim4mods
I especially don't understand the whole extreme camber thing.
From my own experience with slight negative camber issues I surmise that those employing negative camber are supportive of the tire industry. Extreme negative camber, as I have seen on riced up vehicles guarantees frequent trips to the local tire emporium, thus ensuring continued prosperity for the black rubber industry.
So, you could call these folks "charitable."
Extreme negative cambers, and I mean EXTREME, is a signature of the "stance" or "hellaflush" movement.
Don't confuse them with ricers. Ricers end up with excessive negative camber because they either don't know any better or simply don't care about correcting the alignment when lowering ride height.
One of the goals of stance is the extreme negative camber. It's not because they don't know or don't care. That is what they *want* the car to look like.
Two other trademarks of stance is "stretch", the use of a narrow tire on a wide wheel, forcing the tire sidewall to be stretched to seat the bead, and "poke", where the wheel extends slightly beyond the fender line. The counterpart to "poke" is "tuck", where the wheel is tucked into the fenderwell instead of extending beyond it. Often, you'll see the really extreme camber angles when trying to tuck a very wide wheel.
Another big difference is the type of vehicle that gets this treatment. Audi, VW, and BMW are incredibly popular to stance. Lexus, Infiniti, Mercedes Benz, Subaru WRX, Mitsu Evo, Miata, Mazda RX7, and Nissan Silvia are also popular. Sure, people stance Honda's and Acura's, but it is generally a trend applied to more up-market cars.
Questionable aesthetics aside, this leads to a generally unsafe vehicle. It ends up with incredibly suspect handling due to the extreme suspension angles cause by the low ride height and camber. Unseating a bead is a real concern when trying to stretch narrow tires over a wide wheel. Also unfortunate is the quality of work that some people and shops put into the vehicle trying to achieve such a look. Shoddy would be generous.
I actually find this trend even more annoying than the clapped-out bondo filled Civics with [censored] cannons belching blue smoke that were very common up here. They take a car that is quite nice and often handles very well and completely ruin it for this "look".
I quite frankly have no inkling as to what sort of "logic" drives this trend
Originally Posted By: DBMaster
Originally Posted By: Tim4mods
I especially don't understand the whole extreme camber thing.
From my own experience with slight negative camber issues I surmise that those employing negative camber are supportive of the tire industry. Extreme negative camber, as I have seen on riced up vehicles guarantees frequent trips to the local tire emporium, thus ensuring continued prosperity for the black rubber industry.
So, you could call these folks "charitable."
Extreme negative cambers, and I mean EXTREME, is a signature of the "stance" or "hellaflush" movement.
Don't confuse them with ricers. Ricers end up with excessive negative camber because they either don't know any better or simply don't care about correcting the alignment when lowering ride height.
One of the goals of stance is the extreme negative camber. It's not because they don't know or don't care. That is what they *want* the car to look like.
Two other trademarks of stance is "stretch", the use of a narrow tire on a wide wheel, forcing the tire sidewall to be stretched to seat the bead, and "poke", where the wheel extends slightly beyond the fender line. The counterpart to "poke" is "tuck", where the wheel is tucked into the fenderwell instead of extending beyond it. Often, you'll see the really extreme camber angles when trying to tuck a very wide wheel.
Another big difference is the type of vehicle that gets this treatment. Audi, VW, and BMW are incredibly popular to stance. Lexus, Infiniti, Mercedes Benz, Subaru WRX, Mitsu Evo, Miata, Mazda RX7, and Nissan Silvia are also popular. Sure, people stance Honda's and Acura's, but it is generally a trend applied to more up-market cars.
Questionable aesthetics aside, this leads to a generally unsafe vehicle. It ends up with incredibly suspect handling due to the extreme suspension angles cause by the low ride height and camber. Unseating a bead is a real concern when trying to stretch narrow tires over a wide wheel. Also unfortunate is the quality of work that some people and shops put into the vehicle trying to achieve such a look. Shoddy would be generous.
I actually find this trend even more annoying than the clapped-out bondo filled Civics with [censored] cannons belching blue smoke that were very common up here. They take a car that is quite nice and often handles very well and completely ruin it for this "look".
I quite frankly have no inkling as to what sort of "logic" drives this trend
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
I quite frankly have no inkling as to what sort of "logic" drives this trend
I fail to see the logic in most automotive-related trends. Whether it's a riced-out Civic or a donked-out Crown Vic, I don't see the attraction.
http://www.donks.net/
Donk out a Mustang? Really?
I quite frankly have no inkling as to what sort of "logic" drives this trend
I fail to see the logic in most automotive-related trends. Whether it's a riced-out Civic or a donked-out Crown Vic, I don't see the attraction.
http://www.donks.net/
Donk out a Mustang? Really?
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