99 Camry v6, high HC at low rpm

[The_Eric]

Did anybody look through his UOA and notice the 1.3% fuel dilution? Maybe you've got a lazy thermostat or slightly out of range sensor? O/P: without a scan tool that gives you some live sensor data, you're only going to be able to do so much.

You're going to have to start with a complete tune up.

-Plugs (done)
-Wires
-PCV Valve (done)
-Air filter
-Fuel Filter
-Upstream O2 sensors


Also consider replacing the thermostat with a new OEM piece. The remark about your heat has me wondering.

 

[ltslimjim]

^This. (though I'm not seeing his UOA?) With comments about the exhaust smell being different or not when warmed sounds relative to the cat, but it may simply be more fuel while excessively idling; especially with his fuel dilution numbers?

Also, I'd use something more reputable like Red Line SI-1 after using that Guaranteed To Pass stuff.

What spark plugs did you install? Get new wires, keep driving the thing, check your timing to see if it's within spec, too.

Originally Posted By: Brons2
Originally Posted By: ThurzNite

I'm concerned about getting the car warmed up. It's 50 degrees out and raining. I drove 45 min local and 3miles freeway. AC is on, fan speed low, temp dial set to hottest. My meat thermometer in the dash vent says 115-120deg. I was warm in my car, but not "hot". I'm wondering if the cold weather is preventing the engine from getting adequately hot (yeah, I know heater is radiator water, but still). What other methods of getting the cat converter hot on cold days?


If you want to get the engine hotter, don't run the heater. It draws heat away from the coolant. I know, probably uncomfortable when it's 50 degrees outside. Try wearing your ski jacket, if you have one

When this happened last to me the thermostat was broken. I mean literally, only the top part was present, the base with the spring was gone. I had half a thermostat! ..previous car no worries. Anyway, cold/hot symptoms. Air in the cooling system, also effecting your idle symptoms?

 

[Turk]

Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
^Depending on the computer/engine, some emissions system take a while before they a 'ready' for testing according to the ECU. Not sure if this is preventing HC from dropping in your app, but something worth considering. Drive it through a couple more tanks before going again, if possible time relative. Try using a a blend of premium and 87, not sure about e-85 and it's helping/hurting HC emissions, but that'd be the next step as far as least expensive option just to get a 'pass'.

Is Bosch the OE part? Bosch 'lifetime' or just pro-rated warranty for life? I'd get the dealer part if they are the same price, JMO.


+1

 

[Trav]

After reading the whole thread i have to wonder if you might have a leaking/dripping injector or some other issues with them like one partially clogged and the ECM is commanding them to go slightly rich.
Sometimes stuff in the tank doesn't help, i see it every day.
I had some this week out of a Honda that the filters inside had disintegrated.

 

[wiswind]

When I got my '03 Sienna, the 180 degree thermostat (factory original part/temp) was regulating accurately at 165 degrees.
I replaced the thermostat to correct the issue.
The point being.....my thermostat was not solid bad as in always open/closed....it was just regulating at about 15 degress too low.

I used my Scangauge to monitor the temperature while driving the vehicle, and it was a constant issue.
A good shop, or maybe a friend has a OBDII device that you can plug into the OBDII port and measure the temperature.
I would check this as it is easy to do.

If your temperature is off as much as mine was, then a thermostat replacement is in order.
If your temperature is OK, then you can check that off your list of possible causes.


Fuel dilution.....do we have some short trip driving going on?.....could be a cause in the winter.
One in-tank cleaner that might help is Berryman's B-12 Chemtool which is a solvent based cleaner, whereas all the other brands mentioned are detergent based.
Certainly not something to use all the time, but for a serious cleanup, it might be worth a try.
I have used it to solve issues that the other cleaners could not clean.
Of course, it won't help in an example like Trav mentions above, nor will it fix a otherwise defective injector.

 

[ThurzNite]

Originally Posted By: The_Eric

-Plugs (done)
-Wires
-PCV Valve (done)
-Air filter
-Fuel Filter
-Upstream O2 sensors

Barely passed. Went with 87 octane from 76gas. Also, driving 5th gear (hwy) I can see the temp needle dip, so after using the car for the day (I'm a mobile chiropractor, I make house calls), I drove the last 10 miles to the test center on surface streets, shifting at 4k.

Regarding the tuneup, I also changed out the air and fuel filter. And the thermostat was done a year ago when I did the water pump.

I made a list of things to do before the next smog
- B-12
- SI-1
- Sparks, wires, coilpacks
- oil change and filters
- pcv
- clean out egr and pipes
- thermostat

As far as the exhaust smell, Hah, you'll laugh. When I changed the plugs, the engine was cold. And, it's hard to get to the plugs by the firewall. For kicks, a few days before the 3rd testing I checked the plugs for the heck of it, and 2 of the 3 plugs by the firewall were barely tight. Probably 5lb-ft. I'm guessing that had a large part to do with failing the 2nd smog. Now that everything's tight, no more smell! Even the exhaust gas from the muffler doesn't really smell when warmed up.

Thanks all for the help. I might keep this thread alive regarding the thermostat.

Dr J

 

[Vikas]

>>>Also, driving 5th gear (hwy) I can see the temp needle dip,
Time for a new thermostat! If you put a scanner, you would see it running at 150F rather than at 180F.

Mine needed to be replaced this year (99 Camry 4cyl).

- Vikas

 

[ltslimjim]

^Thus, the elevated HC.

 

[Turk]

Hey thanks for the follow-up.

 

[Bladecutter]

I bet your gas mileage will probably improve quite a bit, too.
Good detective work to determine sloppy mechanic's work in tightening the spark plugs, and being man enough to admit to making a mistake.

Hence the reason why I always use a torque wrench when tightening spark plugs.

I bet if you change the wires and coils, your HC would drop even more, and your gas mileage will improve a bit more.

BC.

 

[ThurzNite]

LOL, I would totally use a torque wrench on the 3 plugs by the firewall if I could get enough socket extensions and universal joints to make it work! I really think it's cuz I worked on the engine cold, and when it heat up, everything loosened up on it's own. So the 2nd time when I was double checking, I had warmed up the engine a bit (as warm as a failing thermostat does?)

Hmm, thermostat is cheap from dealer. But the coolant isn't. Boo!!! This would also explain that after a good run, the coolant reservoir is at the Full mark, and engine is cold (mornings), it's below the Low mark.

Looks like coilpacks from the dealer is slightly more than Autozone, so I'll probably pick up some of those too. Wow, this maintenance stuff is costly!

Dr J

 

[ThurzNite]

Little bit of update. I finally got around to installing dealership thermostat and seal. Car warms up great in just over a mile, about 2-3 minutes of driving out of the neighborhood. Temp needle holds steady no matter the driving condition. I already ran through 1/4 tank of gas before swapping in the new thermostat, so I'm eager to get through the next tank of gas to see if there's increase of MPG.

Next on the to-do list: spark plug wires and coil packs.

Dr J

 

[ltslimjim]

^Is that 'better' operation than your previous thermostat? Getting to temp and staying consistent?

Thank you.

If it was lazy about heating up and was not staying at full temp, you may have needed to shorten your OCI, especially for a sludge prone app(IIRC this is one notorious for sludge?).

 

[Turk]

Originally Posted By: ThurzNite
Little bit of update. I finally got around to installing dealership thermostat and seal. Car warms up great in just over a mile, about 2-3 minutes of driving out of the neighborhood. Temp needle holds steady no matter the driving condition. I already ran through 1/4 tank of gas before swapping in the new thermostat, so I'm eager to get through the next tank of gas to see if there's increase of MPG.

Next on the to-do list: spark plug wires and coil packs.

Dr J


Thanks for the update!!

Whick plugs are you putting in? My Wife's Camry runs fantastic on NGK G-Power Plugs.

 

[Vikas]

What is the trim and year of your wife's Camry? I am wondering if the NGK G-Power is a good application in the waste spark system which some era of Camry have.

 

[Turk]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
What is the trim and year of your wife's Camry? I am wondering if the NGK G-Power is a good application in the waste spark system which some era of Camry have.


1997 Camry LE 2.2l 4-banger.

Waste spark systems usually do best on standard NGK Copper.

 

[ThurzNite]

Yes, temp needle doesn't move from middle. There's this 3 mile stretch of freeway that's downhill. I usually leave it in 5th and coast (vacuum), and the temp needle will barely be touching the temp icon. Now, it stays where it's supposed to be.

Hmm, yeah, I should run a shorter OCI. Probably time for another Blackstone too.

I threw in a set of Bosch $0.99 plugs just for the smog test. I haven't had a chance to put back the dealership plugs. Maybe next month I'll get to it.

Dr J

 

[ltslimjim]

Originally Posted By: ThurzNite
Yes, temp needle doesn't move from middle. There's this 3 mile stretch of freeway that's downhill. I usually leave it in 5th and coast (vacuum), and the temp needle will barely be touching the temp icon. Now, it stays where it's supposed to be.

Hmm, yeah, I should run a shorter OCI. Probably time for another Blackstone too.

I threw in a set of Bosch $0.99 plugs just for the smog test. I haven't had a chance to put back the dealership plugs. Maybe next month I'll get to it.

Dr J


I get you here, good plan going back to NGK copper. Dealer plug is from most part stores. If you need help finding parts, always ask.

Thanks for more info.

 

[Vikas]

Originally Posted By: tpitcher

1997 Camry LE 2.2l 4-banger.

Waste spark systems usually do best on standard NGK Copper.



I think we have the same engine. I don't think Toyota made any changes to it from 1997 to 1999. Mine has the expensive A/F sensor and NOT standard O2 sensor. Is your same too?

 

[ltslimjim]

^I hate the price, but it's definitely a need for these cars if you have a wideband LAF sensor. My 92 Civic VX has one, I got a great deal on an aftermarket that other VX owners have tried, but since it has gone to $200+, like Denso and NGK offering. A lot cheaper than the now 'Bosch' supplied $630 part from the dealer, which can also be had for around $350 at an auto store.

What the heck?!

/endrant

PS: I only have a pre-cat sensor on this OBD-I app. I'm sure Denso or NGK would work just fine.