93 vs. E blend (E22-ish) - logs

[TiGeo]

Not sure if we have winter blends at the stations now but typically with my tune/mods I struggle on winter 93 due to the easier ignition so running 2-3 gallons of E85 sorts out the knock-retard. Here are 2 logs...1 with 93, 1 with E22 (2.5 gal of E to a 14.5 gal tank of 93). These are third gear pulls to redline. If anyone is interested....I always like looking at logs! I typically look at boost, timing advance, knock on all 4 cylinders, lamda, and intake air temp vs. ambient. 60 degree cool temps....turbo cars love it....boost season!

93:

datazap.me | Karstgeo72 | simos tools log 10-22-2-23 93

datazap.me

E22:

datazap.me | Karstgeo72 | simos tools log 10-22-2-23 E22

datazap.me

 

[thastinger]

You don't log MAF_AD, injector duty cycle and TP_Absolute?

 

[JohnnyG]

Winter blend adds more Butane to the gasoline. If correctly done, it should not cause detonation.
It also aids in winter starting since it produces vapor at lower temps.
You might be dealing with a little vapor lock if you experience drivability issues with your tune.

 

[bullwinkle]

How does it do with straight E85? That seems to be the way to go on flex fuel vehicles (other than the bad MPGs).

 

[TiGeo]

You don't log MAF_AD, injector duty cycle and TP_Absolute?

It doesn't have a MAF. I can log a bazillion things but these are the primary ones I look at. On that log you can toggle on TP and injector duty I believe as they are logged.

 

[TiGeo]

Winter blend adds more Butane to the gasoline. If correctly done, it should not cause detonation.
It also aids in winter starting since it produces vapor at lower temps.
You might be dealing with a little vapor lock if you experience drivability issues with your tune.

I have no vapor lock or drivability issues. This is simply calibration on v. high quality fuel vs. what you get her in the winter which clearly detonates easier and under v. high stress (track etc.) I can get misfires due to excessive KR. E clears it right up. Summer fuels aren't an issue however for max performance I run some E year around. This tune is pretty spicy w/r to timing advance so I have a 91 tune that I can run in winter if I want to that backs of the timing a bit and plays better with winter 93 blends. E85 is easy to get here so not really an issue and unless I'm on track/beating the crap out of it, it's fine on winter 93.

 

[TiGeo]

How does it do with straight E85? That seems to be the way to go on flex fuel vehicles (other than the bad MPGs).

I can't run E85 as the fueling system can't deliver the required volume to meet the ECU's lamda target. On my car, to run E85/higher e-blends, I need to add MPI and a higher volume low pressure fuel pump then of course a tune that support is. The ideal is running a flex tune so you can run whatever fuel you want and it handles it.

 

[benjy]

TiGeo i enjoy reading + learning from your posts. i have an APR tune with other mods my 2001 audi 225Q + Vagcom notes some denotation. we now have Flex fuel said to be 51 to 83 % eathanol, NO advertised octane, what can yo tell me about it. got an eathanol tester but have not yet tested this blend + wondering how legal it is selling an undocumented octane fuel. been blending some in lately about 0% total with the E 10 93 oct i usually run with no apparent issues

 

[benjy]

just read about flex fuel, sounds like its considered E-85 bit advertised at the pump at 51 to 83 % eathanol + again NO octane rating!! seems higher eathanol content at Sheetz is being pushed a varying lower costs depending where you live. the Flex was $3 a gal at the new Buckhorn Pa station where i usually stop although their other gasses have increased to comparative pricing from the overall lower prices after just opening. fewer customers this week than ever since the lower prices are GONE!! i am retired + drive little so its cost matters less than when i was sometimes doing a thou WEEKLY in my building construction trade!

 

[TiGeo]

just read about flex fuel, sounds like its considered E-85 bit advertised at the pump at 51 to 83 % eathanol + again NO octane rating!! seems higher eathanol content at Sheetz is being pushed a varying lower costs depending where you live. the Flex was $3 a gal at the new Buckhorn Pa station where i usually stop although their other gasses have increased to comparative pricing from the overall lower prices after just opening. fewer customers this week than ever since the lower prices are GONE!! i am retired + drive little so its cost matters less than when i was sometimes doing a thou WEEKLY in my building construction trade!

Sheetz flex is shown as 94 octane here in VA at the pump.

 

[TiGeo]

TiGeo i enjoy reading + learning from your posts. i have an APR tune with other mods my 2001 audi 225Q + Vagcom notes some denotation. we now have Flex fuel said to be 51 to 83 % eathanol, NO advertised octane, what can yo tell me about it. got an eathanol tester but have not yet tested this blend + wondering how legal it is selling an undocumented octane fuel. been blending some in lately about 0% total with the E 10 93 oct i usually run with no apparent issues

Glad someone gets some value out of them...appreciate it.

I have tested the Sheetz Flex Fuel and it always tests around 85% summer or winter. They aren't selling undoc'd octane, it says 94 right on the pump. Modern vehicles should have no issue with a small amount of ethanol even tuned. You'll know if you over do it in the tuned car....it will struggle to deliver fuel and you'll get an EPC. Most OTS tunes aren't running anything at the limit so you have some headroom on fueling to run a bit for anti-knock/octane booster.

 

[benjy]

thanks for the reply, so i will look closer at ALL the info on the pump. here in Pa at Sheets the pump delivers various octanes + flex as well as NO eathanol have a dedicated hose. guess i gotta check my can of flex with my tester + seeing how more eathanol is being pushed an 85% blend makes sense. searching before i thought i seen a higher octane noted for E-85 as more eathanol = more octane, i thought, interesting reading anyway. considering that flex is cheaper than 87 octane its saves $$ + hopefully causes no issues + to be safe i use about 1/3 blend considering the 10% in 93 oct pump fuel

 

[TiGeo]

thanks for the reply, so i will look closer at ALL the info on the pump. here in Pa at Sheets the pump delivers various octanes + flex as well as NO eathanol have a dedicated hose. guess i gotta check my can of flex with my tester + seeing how more eathanol is being pushed an 85% blend makes sense. searching before i thought i seen a higher octane noted for E-85 as more eathanol = more octane, i thought, interesting reading anyway. considering that flex is cheaper than 87 octane its saves $$ + hopefully causes no issues + to be safe i use about 1/3 blend considering the 10% in 93 oct pump fuel

I'll snap a pic this week at our Sheetz....the yellow button you push here in VA says "94".

 

[benjy]

thanks, i will check mine this thurs when i go for my weekly raw milk supply, my newest Sheetz is just a mile up the hill from health food store!

 

[Novagunner]

The Sheetz in Herndon, VA has flex 51-83% as 94 octane. I tested it last week and it was winter blend right at 70%.

 

[benjy]

i expected a higher octane, but not!! mixed some in my 2001 Audi TT that calls for 93 oct hoping to stop the light pinging my VagCom shows

 

[Novagunner]

Yeah. It is an oddly low number if using a 51% ethanol minimum.

I make about e26-28 and my car loves it.

 

[shortyb]

@TiGeo, haven't looked at DataZap logs in a while, but the E is definately helping out. I saw no KR with the E blend. Fueling has some headroom as the HPFP is basically flatline so you could bump up the E content some and still be good. The E would help the spool speed down low with the big snail too. The plain 93 is killing the midrange with all the KR @ 4K. It's sending panic attack alerts to the wastegate to dump boost in an attempt to stop the knock. Who's tune are you on? I did Cobb/EQT with their E30 and on the IS20 it ripped. If I had done an Autotech HPFP mod, I could run straight E85 without MPI or bigger LPFP. YMMV with IS38 though.

And for advertised octane readings with regard to Flex Fuel, they have to label the MINIMUM octane acheived with the minimum amount of E. In this case 51%, but obviously higher with higher E content. Local stations that are rock solid ~85% year round advertise 106 octane on the pump. Should be right as I've tested fuel several times and always ~85%, which I also verified with my Fuel-it! reader/app. Plus, the state's Dept. of Agriculture is ALWAYS testing fuel in this area just to keep the spot fuel buyers honest.

 

[TiGeo]

@TiGeo, haven't looked at DataZap logs in a while, but the E is definately helping out. I saw no KR with the E blend. Fueling has some headroom as the HPFP is basically flatline so you could bump up the E content some and still be good. The E would help the spool speed down low with the big snail too. The plain 93 is killing the midrange with all the KR @ 4K. It's sending panic attack alerts to the wastegate to dump boost in an attempt to stop the knock. Who's tune are you on? I did Cobb/EQT with their E30 and on the IS20 it ripped. If I had done an Autotech HPFP mod, I could run straight E85 without MPI or bigger LPFP. YMMV with IS38 though.

And for advertised octane readings with regard to Flex Fuel, they have to label the MINIMUM octane acheived with the minimum amount of E. In this case 51%, but obviously higher with higher E content. Local stations that are rock solid ~85% year round advertise 106 octane on the pump. Should be right as I've tested fuel several times and always ~85%, which I also verified with my Fuel-it! reader/app. Plus, the state's Dept. of Agriculture is ALWAYS testing fuel in this area just to keep the spot fuel buyers honest.

Unitronic. Spicy and doesn't like the winter gas.

 

[shortyb]

Unitronic. Spicy and doesn't like the winter gas.

Obviously . Add E and send it.