75W transmission oil

[widman]

I have recently discovered Toyota manuals recommending "75W" GL-4 transmission oil. To my knowledge, 75W on the SAE J306 chart only shows the bottom end of the range, hitting 150,000 cP by -40ºC and having at least 4.1 cSt viscosity at 100ºC.

Based on that, I'm hearing people say they put 75W-90 or even 75W-140 in their transmissions and complain sharply about hard shifting with either. Some Toyota dealers are even putting in 75W-90 and causing hard shifts.

After a lot of searching, I found somewhere that the "Genuine" Toyota fluid is 75W-85, but at least one dealer insists that it is 75W-80. On line I found one brand who now lists a 75W and says it is their renamed 75W-85.

Nissan is much more specific, requiring 75W-80 in some transmissions and 75W-85 in others.

So two questions:
--Am I right in understanding that the 75W is only half of the spec? and
--Why would Toyota be so vague about the spec? They must know there are people who need to change the fluid where "Genuine" Fluid is not available.

And finally, since the SAJ306 table allows huge differences, has anyone had their genuine fluid analyzed?

 

[dlundblad]

I want to say this is the same stuff the latest 4runner's transfer case calls for. Dealer only fluid id imagine. Haha.

I have read about guys using 75w-90 and calling it good.

It looks like Redline makes a 75w80 GL4 gearbox oil too although I am not sure how easy it would be for you to get.

Keep us updated on what you go with.

 

[bmwtechguy]

Yes 75W is only half the spec., and covers cold temp operation. The other half of the viscosity spec would depend on where you operate the vehicle, in other words the normal ambient peak temps. A 75W-90 could offer better gear and bearing protection in places where it is extrememly hot vs a 70W-80 fluid, which might be better suited for places like Scandinavia. I have found that when I find an appropriate gearbox (synchronizer-friendly) fluid that shifts well (not notchy) under most conditions, and maintains good shift quality for a reasonable length of time, that is the particular fluid that I use for that car.

And by synchronizer-friendly, I am referring more to it having the correct friction charateristics for synchronizers, not the old yellow metal corrosion topic of discussion...

 

[Bandito440]

There was a recent thread on this. 75w is a lighter weight gear oil that I hadn't seen before.

Toyota part number 08885-81080.

75w-80 might be close if you want to try that.

 

[simple_gifts]

Apparently it is packaged in completely unless and inconvenient cans.

 

[Bandito440]

Here's some further info.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/1024811/1

 

[Vern_in_IL]

Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
Apparently it is packaged in completely unless and inconvenient cans.


It looks retro! Like it's been on the shelf for 30 years. Very special lube.


Return of the cans!!!

 

[widman]

I'm not worried too much about what to use. I'm launching two new oils as soon as they get here, both GL-4+, in a 75W-80 and 75W-85, copying the Nissan formulas and viscosities, as I supply Nissan with their oils. I'm sure those will work in Toyota.

But lately the complaints are coming from Toyota owners who did their first transmission oil change using 75W-90, one at a dealer and some at other places, all complaining about how hard the shifts became and asking why, since they used something that said 75W.

And nobody likes hearing that Toyota is not being complete in the spec. It would be nice if someone analyzed it and posted it.

 

[Jetronic]

a lot of 75w-90 is GL5 though, and of rather high viscosity for a 75W. I think the complaining parties should be more specific about the oil they use besides viscosity.

We use Castrol syntrans multivehicle 75w-90 GL-4 for anything that doesn't need GL-5. If we use the castrol (the name escapes me now) GL5 75w-90 for the differentials and transfer cases, shifting suffers a LOT.

 

[Jetronic]

and there are more brands specifying a 75W oil for fuel saving benefits.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3024238

It's a monograde, not half a spec IMO

 

[29662]

A lot of the toyota truck guys use Redline MT-90(which is GL-4) in their tranny's, myself included. It runs great and shifts well even in colder weather. I have also used Mobil 1 75-90(GL-5), it works well, and is just a notch below the MT-90 in shift quality.

 

[ChristianReske]

Here in Germany we have some 75W GL4 oils to choose from:

http://www.castrol.com/de_de/germany/products/cars/manual-transmission-fluids.html

http://www.ravenol.de/produkte/verwendung/d/Product/show/p/ravenol-mtf-3-sae-75w.html

And a lot of 75W-80 or 80W oils to choose, from Manufacturers like Castrol, Ravenol, Liqui Moly, Valvoline and so...

It is no wonder that the Transmission is shifting "Notchy" whit a much thicker oil like 75W-90. Why risk a damage and costly repair to the Synchro Rings by running such a thick oil?

Personally, if i dont get the recomended 75W GL4 oil, i would try a 75W-80 GL4 or a 80W GL4. But never a 75W-90 or even thicker 75W-140.

 

[Greasymechtech]

The description is key:
Its an "LV" 75w and GL4

SAE paper info
Most dealers don't stock it. Wonder what they refill those manual transmission warranty repairs? or for topping off? Bulk mud!

If you can't find the OE fluid, use the thinnest MT fluid available.... Pentosin/Ravenol MTF2, RoyalPurple Synchromax, BOT 303 or 350 or 338, or Honda MTF.

There are many complainers at Toyota/Scion forums, and at least one here, that used 75w90(MT90 or MTG) in place of the LV-75w and are not happy. They should've read the owners manual.

 

[Greasymechtech]

 

[widman]

Quote:
I think the complaining parties should be more specific about the oil they use besides viscosity.


There were brands mentioned, but I don't want to get side-tracked on brand loyalties.

Quote:
It's a monograde, not half a spec


Interesting. Ravenol says theirs also meets the Toyota and the BMW LT-3, and I found a new oil reference for the BMW LT-3 that shows 6.1/37 visc, giving it a 110 VI. The Ravenol page says it is a special oil and they don't publish viscosities because it should not be chosen based on viscosity.

But Toyota says their 75W is a 75W-85 on various sites

Mobil's FE 75W is 6.4/35, so the VI is 136
Castrol FE 75W is 6.3/32.2, so the VI is 154
Castrol Syntrans B (BMW LT-2) 75W is 7.29/36.8 so the VI is 154
those definitely aren't monograde, but they don't mention Toyota.

 

[sciphi]

Amsoil Synchromesh is 9.7 cSt when warm. A little thicker, but not by much. Availability might be an issue, though.

 

[Greasymechtech]

I have never seen Toyota's LV-75w called a 75w85.

The 75w85 that Toyota has here is a GL5 for differentials and not to be used in a manual transmission.

It is a monograde spec.

And, to be an 80 grade, it must be above 7cst. Toyota's MT fluid is too thin to meet 80 grade.

 

[widman]

Quote:
And, to be an 80 grade, it must be above 7cst. Toyota's MT fluid is too thin to meet 80 grade.


Interesting point. But it is causing a lot of confusion.

 

[Greasymechtech]

http://papers.sae.org/2005-01-2182/

 

[Greasymechtech]

Only confusion is that dealers don't know it exists. The factory service manual and owners manual is pretty clear and concise. And, as always, plenty of unlimited mis-information on the internet.

If your Scion/Toyota requires "LV 75w", use it or an equivalent thin MT GL4 type fluid. Thicker can be used at the cost of shift quality or MPG/HP. Not all transmissions mind going a little thicker or thinner. You can adjust for your average yearly weather.

My only issue is that too many drain out their 80w90/SAE90.