737 max... what now?

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Originally Posted by Tdog02
So did the recent revelation of Boeing company emails paint a systemic problem with the FAA or was it a few employees boasting? It seems as if the matrix was to reduce necessary training to help bump up sales of the 737 redesign. While the number was the same (737) I doubt they were as similar as one might think after the change and relocation of engines. This could have all been avoided with the proper training of pilots on this airframe.
I said before, the issues in Boeing are deeper than this. 737 MAX is just one of the symptoms.
 
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I've got no problem with test pilots who don't mince words about problems they're finding in a new model. Isn't that why they have test pilots? Also the record shows Lion Air was strongly interested in simulator training specific to the MAX, even if the rules didn't require it. Boeing talked them out of it mostly because they didn't consider a MAX simulator a necessary parallel project to the MAX, and were unable to supply one.
 
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American has pushed back their estimated return to service of the MAX from April to June 4. There seems to be more substance to this estimated ROS than previous estimates, however.
 
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Originally Posted by JustN89
American has pushed back their estimated return to service of the MAX from April to June 4. There seems to be more substance to this estimated ROS than previous estimates, however.
Okay, so the grounding would have to be lifted by mid March for this to be a solid RTS date. I hope for all concerned at the carriers, the suppliers and Boeing that a fix acceptable to all of the regulatory authorities will be in place by then. Boeing is now recommending a sim ride to qualify pilots to fly the MAX and it'll take time to go through each of the grounded aircraft to ensure that they are fit to return to service. This will be neither quick nor cheap since none of the extant MAX aircraft will have benefited from their period of storage.
 

CT8

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Originally Posted by PimTac
Plus in addition to all the above the first batch of A380's were problematic. Engines, plumbing, wing cracks, etc. Airlines that counted on these aircraft to serve high density routes had to scramble when the aircraft went tech. A couple of other aircraft had to be found to serve all the passengers.
It seems the first batch of any thing new can have problems more often than not, but still my ignorance shows when I am flabbergasted at what the cost of these airliners are costing the industry.
 
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Recent news had Boeing attempting to get a line of credit and the 737 max assembly line being halted. Will the 737 max make it back in the air as a passenger jet or will it be regulated to cargo duties? I know it was an extreme failure of marketing, sales and management... will it improve when the new training simulators are put in place?
 
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Looks like settlements have been reached- cash compensation for operators as well as price breaks for parts and other miscellaneous items that must be done by the OEM. My company is still looking at the prospect of buying up cancelled MAX contracts, although that's obviously going to stay in the exploratory phases until certification is passed and the aircraft can operate again.
 
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Also, sounds like my company is no longer expecting the MAX to be back any earlier than late summer/early fall.
 
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Originally Posted by JustN89
Also, sounds like my company is no longer expecting the MAX to be back any earlier than late summer/early fall.
According to the most recent communications, the MAX will not return to service in time for the summer travel season. There is little doubt that an astute operator could pick up some options to buy these aircraft on the cheap. Actual firm orders cannot simply be cancelled without serious cost to the buyer with any such costs being defined in the contract the buyer entered into with Boeing, which will also define compensation due buyer for extraordinary events, like this so far eleven months and counting long grounding of delivered aircraft and completed frames in storage. It isn't simply a matter of a buyer contracted to accept delivery saying no thanks nor are the floodgates open to litigation. The purchase contract covers these contingencies, as unlikely as both parties would have consider them when the deal was inked. This whole chapter is a very dark one for BCA. It makes the company look totally incompetent, especially after the disaster that was the protracted development of the 787.
 
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Originally Posted by fdcg27
Originally Posted by JustN89
Also, sounds like my company is no longer expecting the MAX to be back any earlier than late summer/early fall.
According to the most recent communications, the MAX will not return to service in time for the summer travel season. There is little doubt that an astute operator could pick up some options to buy these aircraft on the cheap. Actual firm orders cannot simply be cancelled without serious cost to the buyer with any such costs being defined in the contract the buyer entered into with Boeing, which will also define compensation due buyer for extraordinary events, like this so far eleven months and counting long grounding of delivered aircraft and completed frames in storage. It isn't simply a matter of a buyer contracted to accept delivery saying no thanks nor are the floodgates open to litigation. The purchase contract covers these contingencies, as unlikely as both parties would have consider them when the deal was inked. This whole chapter is a very dark one for BCA. It makes the company look totally incompetent, especially after the disaster that was the protracted development of the 787.
No, but the orders for the MAX are cancelled and converted to other airframes- Garuda Indonesia recently doing this is an example. Instead of potentially reducing production, Boeing has sold these aircraft to other airlines at a discounted rate- something that a few airlines, not just mine, are exploring. Of course, with the recently failures of the 777X and the delayed introduction of the NMA (if it ever comes- rumor was that Boeing was exploring a new engine option for existing 757s, though with the current MAX issue I don't think Boeing is looking at this option seriously anymore), Boeing is in real trouble. They've got a lot of ground to make up and their only real saving grace right now is that Airbus can't get their production problems fixed.
 
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Originally Posted by adams355
Should be part of every pilot's training...
I agree... the more a pilot knows the less sheet happens...
 
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Originally Posted by BusyLittleShop
Originally Posted by adams355
Should be part of every pilot's training...
I agree... the more a pilot knows the less sheet happens...
Me too - and it applies to many aspects of machine operation.
 
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Originally Posted by JustN89
Originally Posted by fdcg27
Originally Posted by JustN89
Also, sounds like my company is no longer expecting the MAX to be back any earlier than late summer/early fall.
According to the most recent communications, the MAX will not return to service in time for the summer travel season. There is little doubt that an astute operator could pick up some options to buy these aircraft on the cheap. Actual firm orders cannot simply be cancelled without serious cost to the buyer with any such costs being defined in the contract the buyer entered into with Boeing, which will also define compensation due buyer for extraordinary events, like this so far eleven months and counting long grounding of delivered aircraft and completed frames in storage. It isn't simply a matter of a buyer contracted to accept delivery saying no thanks nor are the floodgates open to litigation. The purchase contract covers these contingencies, as unlikely as both parties would have consider them when the deal was inked. This whole chapter is a very dark one for BCA. It makes the company look totally incompetent, especially after the disaster that was the protracted development of the 787.
No, but the orders for the MAX are cancelled and converted to other airframes- Garuda Indonesia recently doing this is an example. Instead of potentially reducing production, Boeing has sold these aircraft to other airlines at a discounted rate- something that a few airlines, not just mine, are exploring. Of course, with the recently failures of the 777X and the delayed introduction of the NMA (if it ever comes- rumor was that Boeing was exploring a new engine option for existing 757s, though with the current MAX issue I don't think Boeing is looking at this option seriously anymore), Boeing is in real trouble. They've got a lot of ground to make up and their only real saving grace right now is that Airbus can't get their production problems fixed.
Okay, so Boeing makes a little lemonade out of the lemons. Order conversions could only be to the 787, current 777 or 777X and these programs do need orders.
 
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Originally Posted by PimTac
The Boeing 777x just made its first test flight. A couple of videos here. Note the folding wingtips. The first video is long and shows the taxiing part. The second one shows the takeoff. That is one big airplane. https://youtu.be/fRpUQHoQ_oE https://youtu.be/z1PlgNwYeWc
Post flight interview of the pilots showed they were very impressed with the 777X performance and handling. Hopefully, it's trouble free from here on out to the point they start making customer deliveries for use.
 
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