6.4 hemi with 5w30 oil?

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USA
Remember before the fiat acquisition Mobil 1 was the recommended oil for SRT/6.4 engines in the factory manuals.
 
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1,769
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NE
I run the penz 0w-40 SRT oil. did a few early break in oil changes with valvoline 5w-30, had in my stash, but dumped every 1000 miles or so. But would stick with 0w-40, Castrol meets the spec and can be had at wally world for price of any 30w.
 
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42,635
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The big difference between your GF-5 PCMO 5w-30 and the 0w-40 offerings isn't the 100C visc, which on some of them, will be close, it's the HTHS visc, which, on the 0w-40's and other Euro lubes, is 3.5cP+. Other differences (excluding the non-Euro SRT 0w-40) include higher levels of anti-wear additives in the 0w-40, and significantly more robust testing protocols like Porsche A40, MB 229.5* ...etc. The "original" SRT 0w-40 was just plain-Jane M1 0w-40, the Euro lube. When FIAT acquired Chrysler, the relationship with Mobil was severed and SOPUS supplanted into that role, who then conjured up an SRT-specific 0w-40 with more pedestrian levels of AW additives. It also has a higher Noack volatility at around 13%, which wouldn't pass the Euro testing protocols. All that said, I'm not sure why the truck 6.4L even calls for the 0w-40 shrug it's a far more similar engine to the truck 5.7L than it is to the SRT 392, which is more power dense.
 
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DELAWARE
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
..................... All that said, I'm not sure why the truck 6.4L even calls for the 0w-40 shrug it's a far more similar engine to the truck 5.7L than it is to the SRT 392, which is more power dense.
That is the mystery, Out of the RAM Chief Design Engineer's mouth on a Q&A video after the late 2014 (2015 MY) launch of the RAM 6.4, said all reliability testing was done with 5W-30 conventional with no issues. That video has now disappeared from the RAM Truck Youtube channel but was out there for a couple of years before that. My speculation is there was some marketing decision that overrode the engineers at launch to spec the 0W-40 for the RAM 6.4 to not add confusion for the SRT 6.4 engine vehicle owners to think 5W-30 was OK for them. .
 
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1,163
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sonoma
FCA values detergency, clean oil, and super high moly for the hemi, stay in grade not so much. I'm sure you could make an argument that maybe they should have added stay in grade specs as part of their lubrication strategy, but the 0w40 srt PUP oils tend to have a cSt a little higher then oils like m1 even esp or fs. So yeah maybe they could have made the srt oil better if they would have considered stay in grade more, but those stay in grade oils with their fancy specs also could be better as far as detergency and moly levels as well. I haven't really looked at a list that has includes all considerations, I know the boutiques tend to have the entire enchilida as in all 4 catagories covered, but maybe there are some otc oils that meet everything? Moly level is clearly key with the lifter issues, but so is detergency keeping those roller bearings clean. When you consider what plagues the hemi, you need to consider the entire package imo.
 
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Originally Posted by burla
FCA values detergency, clean oil, and super high moly for the hemi, stay in grade not so much. I'm sure you could make an argument that maybe they should have added stay in grade specs as part of their lubrication strategy, but the 0w40 srt PUP oils tend to have a cSt a little higher then oils like m1 even esp or fs. So yeah maybe they could have made the srt oil better if they would have considered stay in grade more, but those stay in grade oils with their fancy specs also could be better as far as detergency and moly levels as well. I haven't really looked at a list that has includes all considerations, I know the boutiques tend to have the entire enchilida as in all 4 catagories covered, but maybe there are some otc oils that meet everything? Moly level is clearly key with the lifter issues, but so is detergency keeping those roller bearings clean. When you consider what plagues the hemi, you need to consider the entire package imo.
Food for thought, but if Moly levels were key to keeping the lifter issue at bay, those using the SRT lube wouldn't be having lifter issues wink Given that the Euro specs also include requirements for cleanliness over extended drains, I don't think that's a concern. M1 0w-40 is actually one of the very few lubes that has been advertised as cleaning, rather than just keeping things clean, FWIW. Further to the thing about moly levels, I firmly believe this isn't the magic panacea that it is made out to be. I'm running a lube with no moly in it in my 6.4L and it has the Chrysler approval. There are a ton of oils on the market that are approved by Chrysler that have much lower levels of moly, which, if it was indeed such a critical component, would be included as part of the spec. Furthermore, those using oils with little or no moly (like myself) should be experiencing lifter issues. I'm not, my 6.4L is as quiet as a HEMI can be, with zero tick, on this lubricant. I'd put keeping the needle bearings clean far, FAR above moly in terms of importance, as there are other additives that can be as effective, or moreso, than moly, but there's no substitute for cleanliness.
 
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Magic or not, fca built their oil with a boat load of moly, I figure they have a reason to do so. At one point we had 6 lifter fails reported in a row that all ended up being non moly oils. Coincidence, maybe. But, what is the downside of using a high moly oil? None. So it's kind of a no brainer, "possible" upside and no downside, sign me up. At a minimum use the 75ppm moly oils, but hemi guys should at least consider the 200+ moly club, using an oil w/o moly in a hemi makes zero sense.
 
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Originally Posted by burla
Magic or not, fca built their oil with a boat load of moly, I figure they have a reason to do so. At one point we had 6 lifter fails reported in a row that all ended up being non moly oils. Coincidence, maybe. But, what is the downside of using a high moly oil? None. So it's kind of a no brainer, "possible" upside and no downside, sign me up. At a minimum use the 75ppm moly oils, but hemi guys should at least consider the 200+ moly club, using an oil w/o moly in a hemi makes zero sense.
Given that the owner's manual says to use a multi-viscosity engine oil that is API SN and Xw-20 (or 0w-40 for the 6.4L), and a vehicle owner adheres to that recommendation by choosing an oil which is SN and 5w-30 (or 0w-40 for 6.4L), yet the oil they choose is a non-moly oil, what then? They did everything they knew to do, but you are telling them their decision on what oil to use makes no sense. It would seem to make perfect sense on the surface of things, since they followed the owner's manual. I figure the owner's manual doesn't mention moly for a reason...
 
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Originally Posted by burla
Thin man, pretty thin.
I'm not saying using a moly isn't preferable, but since it's not in the owner's manual, the overwhelming majority of owners of these engines will not even have the choice to use a moly oil or not use one. Ask the average Hemi driver about moly and they're likely to think you're soliciting them for drugs. Yet we are going to make the claim it is a critical component of the oil lubricating the engine? If so, why is it being kept secret? If it's not being kept a secret, then why isn't it being advertised? Something doesn't stir the kool-aid here, I am only trying to figure out what...and I say that as someone who is driving a Hemi that already ate its stock cam.
 
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34,442
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NY
From what I heard from reliable sources a higher ZDDP oil would be of more benefit than a higher moly oil. The problem with the higher ZDDP oil is the catalytic converter. I'd be willing to take the chance in a vehicle with no oil consumption issues.
 
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Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted by burla
Magic or not, fca built their oil with a boat load of moly, I figure they have a reason to do so. At one point we had 6 lifter fails reported in a row that all ended up being non moly oils. Coincidence, maybe. But, what is the downside of using a high moly oil? None. So it's kind of a no brainer, "possible" upside and no downside, sign me up. At a minimum use the 75ppm moly oils, but hemi guys should at least consider the 200+ moly club, using an oil w/o moly in a hemi makes zero sense.
But FCA didn't build the oil, SOPUS did, as a replacement for M1 0w-40. The downside, at least with respect to the SRT 0w-40 is an oil that's more volatile and has lower levels of AW additives. It's also gone through none of the testing that the Euro oils have gone through, which is some pretty intense stuff.
 
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42,635
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Originally Posted by Skippy722
You'd think if they wanted high moly oils they'd put that in their MS-whatever specs wink
That's what I've said. There are plenty of oils, including the Ravenol 0w-40 that I'm running, that are approved by FCA, yet do not have high levels of moly. If there was this great moly conspiracy, it would be part of the spec. As it stands, the FCA specs are basically just GF-5. Also, we can look at GM and the AFM lifter failures, which are essentially the same design, the DEXOS spec doesn't cover moly either, and I don't see folks on here advocating moly to resolve what is essentially the exact same issue with that engine family shrug
 
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sonoma
Originally Posted by The_Nuke
Originally Posted by burla
Thin man, pretty thin.
I'm not saying using a moly isn't preferable, but since it's not in the owner's manual, the overwhelming majority of owners of these engines will not even have the choice to use a moly oil or not use one. Ask the average Hemi driver about moly and they're likely to think you're soliciting them for drugs. Yet we are going to make the claim it is a critical component of the oil lubricating the engine? If so, why is it being kept secret? If it's not being kept a secret, then why isn't it being advertised? Something doesn't stir the kool-aid here, I am only trying to figure out what...and I say that as someone who is driving a Hemi that already ate its stock cam.
Feel free to visit the ram fourms or hemi forums and search for moly, it is discussed as naseum, google it. Why? because of the shear number of cam fails. The additive has silenced ticks and the high moly oils have silenced ticks. Redently we had a guy use a high moly oil and it really quieted his truck but not enough, then he added m0s2 and it went quiet. Now he researches super high moly racing oils because I believe he would prefer oil soluble moly. This was his experience, not mine, I'd prefer not to use powdered moly in suspension for a truck that may have needle bearing issues, but this is what happened. Nothing else has been as suuceesful as high moly oils, as it happens to be these oils have other differences from other oils as well, but CLEARLY something in the formula is killing ticks and it isn't viscosity. Another fact of what is happening over and over is it takes 500 miles or more for the tick to go quiet, I doubt if it was viscosity that would be a fact. We see it week in week out. One theory is moly why, the story fits. The moly plater is reported to need time, pressure and heat. Hemi tick provides two of those, the time comes on the miles. Over and over guy after guy, same story. Either I have 50 names over there from isp's all over the country or it is actualy happening exactly like I said. If you truley want to find out, pose a question at ram forum watch the enthusiasm from many guys who hemi's aren't ticking. You wont flamed, that only happens here.
 
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98
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Nevada
Thread starter
Thanks for the reply's guys. I put in Shell gas truck 5 w 30 and will run a uoa soon. Running well right now. I mean it makes sense to me since the oil they designed for the 6.4 sheers down anyway pretty quickly. And they have a similar viscosity. SGT being a thick 30 wieght. Most the additives are similar. I don't think my truck can tell the difference.
 
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