5W20 or 5W30 - Max Engine Life ?

[donnyj08]

Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: donnyj08
Because a 5w30 can be used in a 5w20 application, however it is totally unnessasary.

My theory is correct then! You are with the 5W20 police!

This is an ironic situation. I will defend "One Filter, One OCI" tooth and nail, just the same as you defend 5W20 over 5W30. Interesting. We have something in common.

(BTW, 5W20 or 5W30?)

in and application that calls for 5w20 of course i recommend 5w20! in my S2000? no. i run 10w30 in it as per the manual. and i may run a 5w30 in it in the winter if it gets very cold.

im not defending 5w20 for all applications, however i do believe the manufactures recommendations are very good! and i like you use one filter per oci as well. wasteful? Maybe, but i enjoy changing it!

 

[Capa]

Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
Why do we have to keep having this tired old debate. All people have to do to get their basic questions answered is to Google various related topics on BITOG. You'll get a big education and then not dump gas on a fire that's almost gone out.

I challenge anyone to prove that an engine spec'ed for 5W20, and being operated in a fashion appropriate to that grade, and in the approved climate, will show any less wear with 5W30. There are isolated situations where that might be true... one size does not fit all... but largely, if the engine was spec'ed for 5W20, going thicker will not be of any benefit in terms of wear. There was a time when 5W30 was easier to get than 5W30 and that might have been a benefit ... then. Many 5W20 are more shear resistant than 5W30s.. in fact many average 5W30s have sheared to the bottom of grade or into 20 grade by the time they are done anyway. The effect on MPG may be minescule, but it's there as well.

Overall... 5W20 vs 5W30... MEH?


+2, thank you, Jim. Those of you recommending a 30 weight for 20 weight applications are living in the past. Five years from now you'll be arguing that 0W-16 is too thin and to run a 5W-20. And a decade from now you'll be arguing that the 0W-12 is too thin and to run a 0W-16, and, all this, despite the fact that these vehicles are reaching 300,000 miles! Wake up, we are in the 21st century.

 

[Clevy]

I've always been in the thicker is better camp however its being proven daily that thinner grade oils are taking vehicles engines well beyond the actual vehicle its in useful life.
Yes Europeans use thicker oils however they go longer between oil changes and the market itself has always used thicker oils,so they are alot like us when it comes being resistant to change.
If the manufacturer specifies the thinner grade then use it,or do they not know what they are talking about and some anonymous poster on an Internet forum knows better.

For example my 05 dodge ram hemi. If any engine(in my mind)should specify thick oil this is it. Between towing,hauling and generally just moving this 6000 pound vehicle is working the engine hard.
It's equipped with a cooler for every fluid in it. And I've pulled the dipstick after driving 50 miles and the oil isn't too hot so that it burns my bare fingers,so that tells me the systems are all working,and the 20 grade oil specified is more than enough to do what's required.
This truck just rolled past 270000 and consumes no oil between changes and I can roast the tires at will.
In fact my dads 2013 hemi doesn't feel as powerful as mine,and its supposed to have 40hp more than mine.
Just use what they tell ya unless your personal driving habits necessitate something else.

 

[S65AMG]

What do you do if the manufacturer recommends a heavier weight in one country, and a lighter weight in another country, for exactly the same vehicle?

I suppose you follow the country by country advice. But why?

And why do some manufacturers have recommendations that vary with climate, and some don't?

And sometimes even this changes from time to time. Certain years of Mercedes seem to be allowed to use 30 weight above 86f, while in other charts, 40 weight should be used above 86f.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: S63AMG
What do you do if the manufacturer recommends a heavier weight in one country, and a lighter weight in another country, for exactly the same vehicle?

I suppose you follow the country by country advice. But why?

And why do some manufacturers have recommendations that vary with climate, and some don't?

And sometimes even this changes from time to time. Certain years of Mercedes seem to be allowed to use 30 weight above 86f, while in other charts, 40 weight should be used above 86f.


Why?
It's the market its in. Europeans use thicker oils but run them 4x longer,so a more stout and thicker oil is needed for the extra fuel dilution etc.
Australia is another country where they use thicker oils than North America. Try to find a 20 grade there,at a decent price.
Manufacturers specify oils that are easily acquired in the market the vehicle is sold in. It's just that simple.
It's not some big conspiracy to make North American engines fail sooner,in fact engines in North America are lasting longer than they ever had,so that isn't even a valid argument.

 

[S65AMG]

So Europeans need thicker oil for 4x longer oci.

Can you give me an example of a 40k oci?

And if heavier oils shear, then how can they go 4x longer?

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: S63AMG
So Europeans need thicker oil for 4x longer oci.

Can you give me an example of a 40k oci?

And if heavier oils shear, then how can they go 4x longer?

Heh heh......

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: Capa
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
Why do we have to keep having this tired old debate. All people have to do to get their basic questions answered is to Google various related topics on BITOG. You'll get a big education and then not dump gas on a fire that's almost gone out.

I challenge anyone to prove that an engine spec'ed for 5W20, and being operated in a fashion appropriate to that grade, and in the approved climate, will show any less wear with 5W30. There are isolated situations where that might be true... one size does not fit all... but largely, if the engine was spec'ed for 5W20, going thicker will not be of any benefit in terms of wear. There was a time when 5W30 was easier to get than 5W30 and that might have been a benefit ... then. Many 5W20 are more shear resistant than 5W30s.. in fact many average 5W30s have sheared to the bottom of grade or into 20 grade by the time they are done anyway. The effect on MPG may be minescule, but it's there as well.

Overall... 5W20 vs 5W30... MEH?


+2, thank you, Jim. Those of you recommending a 30 weight for 20 weight applications are living in the past. Five years from now you'll be arguing that 0W-16 is too thin and to run a 5W-20. And a decade from now you'll be arguing that the 0W-12 is too thin and to run a 0W-16, and, all this, despite the fact that these vehicles are reaching 300,000 miles! Wake up, we are in the 21st century.

What brand of 30 wt. do you use?

 

[Merkava_4]

Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
5w30 is the thinnest I would go on anything. If for some reason 5w30
is too thick for an engine, I wouldn't buy the vehicle the engine is in.


Happy Birthday. But I do not miss any comments that contains almost no sense. Let us know how you came to this conclusion.


BITOG Search Results

And there's more threads like that about 5W-20.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: RiceCake
The main reason to use 5w30 when the engine calls for 5W-20 is easy.

It makes the driver think that arbitrarily ignoring the manual written by engineers means he's smarter and wittier and doing better for his car then everyone else.

And some people need a placebo.


Did you read the OP's question at all ?

No, I thought not !

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: ChrisD46
I questioned a Kia Tech on which oil to run since 2007 Kia Sedona V6 and 2011 Kia Forte I4 engines state in the manual: Can run either 5W20 or 5W30 ...preferably 5W30 in hotter climates (Brownsville Texas , Key West , Florida ?) ...So I asked the Kia Tech which one to run and he replied : " For best gas milieage run 5W20 , for max engine life run 5W30" . For sake of arguement, I'm only considering synthetic (QSUD , PP , M1)and would like to get 200K+ miles out of both vehicles with a 7500 mile / 6 month OCI schedule ... Which grade oil would you use or does it matter ?

Basically, you could write "5W20 and 5W30" on 2 seperate pieces of paper, put them in a hat, and choose one as a choice of oil to use. Your engine will never know. And if choose 5W30 and come here and post it be prepared to see the "5W20 Idol Worshipers" go into shock and hyperventilate.

 

[FZ1]

Originally Posted By: ChrisD46
I questioned a Kia Tech on which oil to run since 2007 Kia Sedona V6 and 2011 Kia Forte I4 engines state in the manual: Can run either 5W20 or 5W30 ...preferably 5W30 in hotter climates (Brownsville Texas , Key West , Florida ?) ...So I asked the Kia Tech which one to run and he replied : " For best gas milieage run 5W20 , for max engine life run 5W30" . For sake of arguement, I'm only considering synthetic (QSUD , PP , M1)and would like to get 200K+ miles out of both vehicles with a 7500 mile / 6 month OCI schedule ... Which grade oil would you use or does it matter ?
Run a 5w-20 until about 130,000. If you get cylinder blowby,then,consider a thicker oil. Your car may run forever on 5w-20. Fit the oil selection to your motor experience using the info gained on Bitog.

 

[RiceCake]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Did you read the OP's question at all ?

No, I thought not !


Clearly you didn't either because you're responding to a reply I made in this thread, not the OP, which is the same thing I did.

But I won't argue the point here, you're a super engineer from AU who seemingly has all the time in the world to desperately try to get on my case.

And I find that hilarious.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: donnyj08
and i like you use one filter per oci as well. wasteful? Maybe, but i enjoy changing it!

You sir, are one of the elite and have earned your place in the "One Filter, One OCI!" Army. You are now enlisted and can display your colors in your signature.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: S63AMG
So Europeans need thicker oil for 4x longer oci.

Can you give me an example of a 40k oci?

And if heavier oils shear, then how can they go 4x longer?


Try looking.

 

[S65AMG]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: S63AMG
So Europeans need thicker oil for 4x longer oci.

Can you give me an example of a 40k oci?

And if heavier oils shear, then how can they go 4x longer?


Try looking.


You made the claim.

For you to make the claim means you should have evidence.

Why don't you provide the evidence upon which you made your claim of Europeans having 4 times longer ocis?

Is it up to everyone else to spend time searching for evidence to validate your claims?

 

[fdcg27]

This thread has descended to the level typical of thick vs thin threads.
Lots of irrelevant arguments as well as lots of personal attacks.
At the end of the day, you already knew the answer.
You want to use the 5W-20, then why not?
If you prefer the 5w30, go for it.
Either grade should allow 200K from either engine, barring failures not related to the engine oil used.
What everyone here should know by now is that thinner oil doesn't seem to reduce engine life and thicker oil doesn't seem to extend it.
Different markets may see different grades used, for reasons that appear to be more related to local availability as well as local OCI practices, not to engine wear optimization.
The truth is that most engines will work just fine on a variety of grades.

 

[Capa]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
This thread has descended to the level typical of thick vs thin threads.
Lots of irrelevant arguments as well as lots of personal attacks.
At the end of the day, you already knew the answer.
You want to use the 5W-20, then why not?
If you prefer the 5w30, go for it.
Either grade should allow 200K from either engine, barring failures not related to the engine oil used.
What everyone here should know by now is that thinner oil doesn't seem to reduce engine life and thicker oil doesn't seem to extend it.
Different markets may see different grades used, for reasons that appear to be more related to local availability as well as local OCI practices, not to engine wear optimization.
The truth is that most engines will work just fine on a variety of grades.


Thank you and YES!

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
This thread has descended to the level typical of thick vs thin threads.
Lots of irrelevant arguments as well as lots of personal attacks.
At the end of the day, you already knew the answer.
You want to use the 5W-20, then why not?
If you prefer the 5w30, go for it.
Either grade should allow 200K from either engine, barring failures not related to the engine oil used.
What everyone here should know by now is that thinner oil doesn't seem to reduce engine life and thicker oil doesn't seem to extend it.
Different markets may see different grades used, for reasons that appear to be more related to local availability as well as local OCI practices, not to engine wear optimization.
The truth is that most engines will work just fine on a variety of grades.

Wouldn't this be easier?
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Basically, you could write "5W20 and 5W30" on 2 seperate pieces of paper, put them in a hat, and choose one as a choice of oil to use. Your engine will never know.

 

[fdcg27]

Thanks for having grasped my point.
Use what you want, and the engine will do just fine.
Maybe 0W-20 wouldn't be the best choice for a hard used M5, although we have a member here who uses twenty grades in cars that would humiliate any M5.
Maybe 20W-50 is unsuited to the Prius, yet that grade is among those recommended in a country where thick oils seem to be the usual choice.
The point is that no grade of oil will make an engine live longer.
The evidence of the past decade or so with Honda and Ford engines in this country is inarguable.
Cars see much longer lives in miles driven in this country than they do in Europe, and we have long used thinner oils here.