addyguy, they will as all the CEOS have been doing. Getting way way too much money for their job performance [ I would love to get paid millions and millions and millions of dollars to bankrupt a corporation then a few million more when I get fired or quit]. At the cost of the employees and the purchasers of their products.
$50 billion bailout for the struggling big 3???
- Thread starter Cutehumor
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Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Quote:
The jobs and companies will be saved, but they won't be UAW jobs. Finally.
Is there any chance of grouping The League of Distinguished Gentlemen in to something like the UAW? They've cleaned our clocks pretty thoroughly and are far more "dead weight" imo. Not that they have the vast numbers, but they surely, collectively, leave their mark on all of us...not just the auto industry.
How do you propose to dispose of these losers and parasites and their entitlement mentality now that they've clearly demonstrated no more fiscal restraint than a high school dropout with his first credit card and a blingmobile??
It is not only the workers .My wife has a 2002 F250 Ford with a Powerstroke engine there has been 0 issues because of how the workers did their job. The problems were because of the designers ,engineers and the cost cutting to pay the CEOS pay and bonus.
Quote:
The jobs and companies will be saved, but they won't be UAW jobs. Finally.
Is there any chance of grouping The League of Distinguished Gentlemen in to something like the UAW? They've cleaned our clocks pretty thoroughly and are far more "dead weight" imo. Not that they have the vast numbers, but they surely, collectively, leave their mark on all of us...not just the auto industry.
How do you propose to dispose of these losers and parasites and their entitlement mentality now that they've clearly demonstrated no more fiscal restraint than a high school dropout with his first credit card and a blingmobile??
It is not only the workers .My wife has a 2002 F250 Ford with a Powerstroke engine there has been 0 issues because of how the workers did their job. The problems were because of the designers ,engineers and the cost cutting to pay the CEOS pay and bonus.
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I'm kinda shocked here (not really) ..
We just spent $700B with the blink of the eye that went to prop up our highest paid flim-flammers of the modern world ..and they've managed to demonize working class stiffs to make us take pause over a CORE aspect of our economy.
Don't you find it convenient that you've already been robbed ...BLIND ..and to the benefit of WHOM??? ..and NOW that you're jaded ..are asked to deliver the mortal wound to the BIG THREE?
That is, you're being manipulated into the action that will hurt you more than you can imagine ..out of spite.
It really doesn't matter, though. It's just a packaging of bad news. You're just being setup to CHOOSE how you hear it.
Then it's just a matter of "you got what you wished for - why the complaints"
It's another CONTRACT ON AMERICA end run around. You wouldn't willfully accept such insults ..so now you have them anyway in another form.
We just spent $700B with the blink of the eye that went to prop up our highest paid flim-flammers of the modern world ..and they've managed to demonize working class stiffs to make us take pause over a CORE aspect of our economy.
Don't you find it convenient that you've already been robbed ...BLIND ..and to the benefit of WHOM??? ..and NOW that you're jaded ..are asked to deliver the mortal wound to the BIG THREE?
That is, you're being manipulated into the action that will hurt you more than you can imagine ..out of spite.
It really doesn't matter, though. It's just a packaging of bad news. You're just being setup to CHOOSE how you hear it.
Then it's just a matter of "you got what you wished for - why the complaints"
It's another CONTRACT ON AMERICA end run around. You wouldn't willfully accept such insults ..so now you have them anyway in another form.
Kestas
Staff member
Originally Posted By: Cutehumor
I was watching video clips on CNN of the big 3 CEO's in front of congress asking for bailout money. Congress was asking them what they will do with the 25 billion bailout money. The big 3 CEOs had a bamboozled look on their face. They couldn't say exactly what the money was going to be used for or what is their plan for making their auto companies profitable. Very troubling if that is your leadership...I guess they assumed, they could fly to D.C, ask for money, and they would get the money no questions asked. Since Congress asked for a plan, they said they would come back with one. Expect one in a few weeks
How come they didn't ask AIG and other financial big-wigs what they were going to do with their money? They got their money - no questions asked. Why is the onus on the auto manufacturers to come up with a business plan? Why shouldn't they assume that they could do the same as AIG? Even the news media this morning mentioned that AIG is counting their lucky stars over this.
I was watching video clips on CNN of the big 3 CEO's in front of congress asking for bailout money. Congress was asking them what they will do with the 25 billion bailout money. The big 3 CEOs had a bamboozled look on their face. They couldn't say exactly what the money was going to be used for or what is their plan for making their auto companies profitable. Very troubling if that is your leadership...I guess they assumed, they could fly to D.C, ask for money, and they would get the money no questions asked. Since Congress asked for a plan, they said they would come back with one. Expect one in a few weeks
How come they didn't ask AIG and other financial big-wigs what they were going to do with their money? They got their money - no questions asked. Why is the onus on the auto manufacturers to come up with a business plan? Why shouldn't they assume that they could do the same as AIG? Even the news media this morning mentioned that AIG is counting their lucky stars over this.
I still can't believe a hit hasn't been tried on the AIG folks, especially after they burned something like a 100K on a "celebration party" for receiving the funds... Or maybe they've just been keeping it under wraps?
Kestas How come they didn't ask AIG and other financial big-wigs what they were going to do with their money? They got their money - no questions asked. Why is the onus on the auto manufacturers to come up with a business plan? Why shouldn't they assume that they could do the same as AIG? Even the news media this morning mentioned that AIG is counting their lucky stars over this. [/quote said:
Kestas
Staff member
The UAW doesn't get near the amount of wages that AIG employees get, yet they are more productive and produce products needed by the public. What do AIG employees produce to improve our quality of life? All they do is move our money from here to there and skim a lot off in the process.
BTW, I too was and am against all bailouts. Either everybody gets bailed out, or nobody gets bailed.
One thing I do want to state is that the auto industry is much more worthy of a bailout than the financial industry for the many reasons already posted in this thread.
BTW, I too was and am against all bailouts. Either everybody gets bailed out, or nobody gets bailed.
One thing I do want to state is that the auto industry is much more worthy of a bailout than the financial industry for the many reasons already posted in this thread.
Originally Posted By: Kestas
BTW, I too was and am against all bailouts. Either everybody gets bailed out, or nobody gets bailed.
I disagree. Everybody shouldn't get a bailout. Something tells me that Congress, hopes with this embarassment by the big 3, That retailers and airlines think twice about coming to them for bailout money. Speculation is that major retailers, internet stores, and airlines are next in line to ask for a bailout when this Big 3 bailout fiasco is over. You can't bailout everyone.
BTW, I too was and am against all bailouts. Either everybody gets bailed out, or nobody gets bailed.
I disagree. Everybody shouldn't get a bailout. Something tells me that Congress, hopes with this embarassment by the big 3, That retailers and airlines think twice about coming to them for bailout money. Speculation is that major retailers, internet stores, and airlines are next in line to ask for a bailout when this Big 3 bailout fiasco is over. You can't bailout everyone.
JHZR2
Staff member
+1 kestas...
I really dislike unions, because of what I feel and have experienced them to cause in terms of productivity, quality, etc. in many cases.
That said, the uneducated, $80k/yr union UAW laborer still has far more to loose than the $250k/yr AIG employee. The AIG employee could have lived the same standard of living as the $80k union guy, and still have plenty of money to spare.
Ditto for retirees. Nothing against the UAW retirees costing GM $1000/car in healthcare fees... somebody has to support them (otherwise it wil be the government somehow anyway). Even if they were overpaid for what they did, it wasnt as ridiculous and unsustainable as many of the folks at these other firms.
Not saying that the UAW was right, or that some folks shouldnt be paid large amounts of money for good performance and "steering the ship" on the optimal path... but I cannot feel sorry for people or entities that lacked personal responsibility and then are hurting. For the "human" side of providing a bailout to keep people employed and whatnot, Id rather have seen the automakers bailed out than the banks.
Ill argue that some of the UAW benefits are ridiculous, but theirs are at least to attempt to have as good a QOL as the next guy up the chain. The bankers were 5 or 6 levels up the chain from the start... The more you make, the less you deserve any sort of support.
I realize also that bailouts arent entirely for keeping a company afloat, as compared to keeping the larger overall picture right-side up... but the reality is that some way or another, the bailout benefits a group by maintaining their paycheck - labor is THE biggest expense. I cant see sustaining extremely high labor rates at companies like AIG, compared to effectively "standard" living rates, deserved or not, by the UAW.
I really dislike unions, because of what I feel and have experienced them to cause in terms of productivity, quality, etc. in many cases.
That said, the uneducated, $80k/yr union UAW laborer still has far more to loose than the $250k/yr AIG employee. The AIG employee could have lived the same standard of living as the $80k union guy, and still have plenty of money to spare.
Ditto for retirees. Nothing against the UAW retirees costing GM $1000/car in healthcare fees... somebody has to support them (otherwise it wil be the government somehow anyway). Even if they were overpaid for what they did, it wasnt as ridiculous and unsustainable as many of the folks at these other firms.
Not saying that the UAW was right, or that some folks shouldnt be paid large amounts of money for good performance and "steering the ship" on the optimal path... but I cannot feel sorry for people or entities that lacked personal responsibility and then are hurting. For the "human" side of providing a bailout to keep people employed and whatnot, Id rather have seen the automakers bailed out than the banks.
Ill argue that some of the UAW benefits are ridiculous, but theirs are at least to attempt to have as good a QOL as the next guy up the chain. The bankers were 5 or 6 levels up the chain from the start... The more you make, the less you deserve any sort of support.
I realize also that bailouts arent entirely for keeping a company afloat, as compared to keeping the larger overall picture right-side up... but the reality is that some way or another, the bailout benefits a group by maintaining their paycheck - labor is THE biggest expense. I cant see sustaining extremely high labor rates at companies like AIG, compared to effectively "standard" living rates, deserved or not, by the UAW.
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Quote:
You can't bailout everyone.
Correct. So you bail out your pals first ..and let the anger shut out everyone else.
You can't bail out anyone without EVERYONE (well, let's rephrase that to "the majority") footing the bill.
I ask not for whom the bell tolls ..for it always ends up being me.
You can't bailout everyone.
Correct. So you bail out your pals first ..and let the anger shut out everyone else.
You can't bail out anyone without EVERYONE (well, let's rephrase that to "the majority") footing the bill.
I ask not for whom the bell tolls ..for it always ends up being me.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Do the CEOs have a union ?
How do they get such ridiculous remuneration without an evil union holding a gun to the company's head ?
Indeed:
Quote:
The real question, then, is: Why do other people choose to pay corporate executives so much?
One popular explanation is that executive salaries are set by boards of directors who are spending the stockholders’ money and do not care that they are overpaying a CEO, who may be the one responsible for putting them on the board of directors in the first place.
It makes a neat picture and may even be true in some cases. What deals a body blow to this theory, however, is that CEO compensation is even higher in corporations owned by a few giant investment firms, as distinguished from corporations owned by thousands of individual stockholders.
In other words, it is precisely where people are spending their own money and have financial expertise that they bid highest for CEOs. It is precisely where people most fully understand the difference that the right CEO can make in a corporation’s profitability that they are willing to bid what it takes to get the executive they want.
and just because:
Quote:
One of the reasons why central planning sounds so good, but has failed so badly that even socialist and Communist governments finally abandoned the idea by the end of the 20th century, is that nobody knows enough to second guess everybody else.
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NTFlNDhmODM3MGY3MTY0Nzg3Zjg2MDE3YjZjNGM1NDQ=
Do the CEOs have a union ?
How do they get such ridiculous remuneration without an evil union holding a gun to the company's head ?
Indeed:
Quote:
The real question, then, is: Why do other people choose to pay corporate executives so much?
One popular explanation is that executive salaries are set by boards of directors who are spending the stockholders’ money and do not care that they are overpaying a CEO, who may be the one responsible for putting them on the board of directors in the first place.
It makes a neat picture and may even be true in some cases. What deals a body blow to this theory, however, is that CEO compensation is even higher in corporations owned by a few giant investment firms, as distinguished from corporations owned by thousands of individual stockholders.
In other words, it is precisely where people are spending their own money and have financial expertise that they bid highest for CEOs. It is precisely where people most fully understand the difference that the right CEO can make in a corporation’s profitability that they are willing to bid what it takes to get the executive they want.
and just because:
Quote:
One of the reasons why central planning sounds so good, but has failed so badly that even socialist and Communist governments finally abandoned the idea by the end of the 20th century, is that nobody knows enough to second guess everybody else.
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NTFlNDhmODM3MGY3MTY0Nzg3Zjg2MDE3YjZjNGM1NDQ=
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Quote:
It makes a neat picture and may even be true in some cases. What deals a body blow to this theory, however, is that CEO compensation is even higher in corporations owned by a few giant investment firms, as distinguished from corporations owned by thousands of individual stockholders.
...errrr..and those giant investment firm's boards aren't staffed by The League of Distinguished Gentlemen, too?? I'd say that it's just an upper echelon of groomed award banquet recipients ..banquets held annually.
It makes a neat picture and may even be true in some cases. What deals a body blow to this theory, however, is that CEO compensation is even higher in corporations owned by a few giant investment firms, as distinguished from corporations owned by thousands of individual stockholders.
...errrr..and those giant investment firm's boards aren't staffed by The League of Distinguished Gentlemen, too?? I'd say that it's just an upper echelon of groomed award banquet recipients ..banquets held annually.
Originally Posted By: Cutehumor
Speculation is that major retailers, internet stores, and airlines are next in line to ask for a bailout when this Big 3 bailout fiasco is over. You can't bailout everyone.
I'm sure they have thought at least twice and already have a plan.
Plan:
1. Travel coach class.
2. Wear a suit that costs less than $2,000
3. Have believable turnaround business plan that explains how they will use the money to a accomplish a turnaround and make them profitable enough that they can pay the taxpayers back.
4. Don't come off like arrogant spoiled jerks when holding their tin cup out to Congress.
I was just kidding about 4, that is more than one can reasonably expect from a member of the Distinguished Gentlemen's Club.
Speculation is that major retailers, internet stores, and airlines are next in line to ask for a bailout when this Big 3 bailout fiasco is over. You can't bailout everyone.
I'm sure they have thought at least twice and already have a plan.
Plan:
1. Travel coach class.
2. Wear a suit that costs less than $2,000
3. Have believable turnaround business plan that explains how they will use the money to a accomplish a turnaround and make them profitable enough that they can pay the taxpayers back.
4. Don't come off like arrogant spoiled jerks when holding their tin cup out to Congress.
I was just kidding about 4, that is more than one can reasonably expect from a member of the Distinguished Gentlemen's Club.
Originally Posted By: XS650
Originally Posted By: Cutehumor
Speculation is that major retailers, internet stores, and airlines are next in line to ask for a bailout when this Big 3 bailout fiasco is over. You can't bailout everyone.
I'm sure they have thought at least twice and already have a plan.
Plan:
1. Travel coach class.
2. Wear a suit that costs less than $2,000
3. Have believable turnaround business plan that explains how they will use the money to a accomplish a turnaround and make them profitable enough that they can pay the taxpayers back.
4. Don't come off like arrogant spoiled jerks when holding their tin cup out to Congress.
I was just kidding about 4, that is more than one can reasonably expect from a member of the Distinguished Gentlemen's Club.
Should fully apply to the members of Congress they will be addressing. They are no better and are probably worse.
Originally Posted By: Cutehumor
Speculation is that major retailers, internet stores, and airlines are next in line to ask for a bailout when this Big 3 bailout fiasco is over. You can't bailout everyone.
I'm sure they have thought at least twice and already have a plan.
Plan:
1. Travel coach class.
2. Wear a suit that costs less than $2,000
3. Have believable turnaround business plan that explains how they will use the money to a accomplish a turnaround and make them profitable enough that they can pay the taxpayers back.
4. Don't come off like arrogant spoiled jerks when holding their tin cup out to Congress.
I was just kidding about 4, that is more than one can reasonably expect from a member of the Distinguished Gentlemen's Club.
Should fully apply to the members of Congress they will be addressing. They are no better and are probably worse.
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