$50 billion bailout for the struggling big 3???

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Originally Posted By: moribundman
Originally Posted By: jsharp
It seems things aren't so perfect for the imports either


Of course not. They are suffering severely at home. Exports may save the more affordable brands like VW, as long as the exchange rate remains favorable.


I noticed that BMW and VW had the shortest percentage increase in days backlog of cars. They were also in better shape than most last year. Maybe they have some competent planners.
 
VW has publicly stated that, while the situation wasn't "rosy," they did not expect to be seriously affected by the current economic condition (domestic and worldwide). They have however cut back on production and work hours. Opel hasn't been doing all that well for years, and they will most assuredly get bailed out. BMW and M-B have cut production.
 
I would seriously doubt that UAW Prez Ron Gettelfinger is capable of any sort of independent thought, that doesn't follow the union in a lockstep manner.
 
Originally Posted By: mpvue
Originally Posted By: firemachine69
I think the scariest part of that picture is the number of Prius' sitting around...

no, the scariest part of the article was this:
But the inventory glut in Long Beach is not limited to imported cars. There has also been a sharp drop in demand for the port’s single largest export: recycled cardboard and paper products.

This material typically goes to China, where it is used to make boxes for new electronics and other products that are sent back to the United States. But Chinese factories reacting to sharply falling demand are slowing production, so they need less cardboard. Tons of paper are piling up recycling businesses around the port, the detritus of economies on hold


I've known about this, but to see it confirmed like this is frightening.
THINK ABOUT IT; the largest export from the US is RECYCLED CARDBOARD!
we are only beginning to see the effects of living a greedy consumer based society. it's going to get way worse before it can even think of getting better.



This is the reason why the White House can't just impose a 5K tax on any foreign Asian car. The consequences would be colossal.
 
It would do no good. If people want the car, they will pay the tax.

The gas guzzler tax has never put a dent in the sale of gas guzzlers, so far as I know, it just makes people mad when they pay the tax to get the car they want.
 
Originally Posted By: XS650
Originally Posted By: moribundman
Originally Posted By: jsharp
It seems things aren't so perfect for the imports either


Of course not. They are suffering severely at home. Exports may save the more affordable brands like VW, as long as the exchange rate remains favorable.


I noticed that BMW and VW had the shortest percentage increase in days backlog of cars. They were also in better shape than most last year. Maybe they have some competent planners.



If what I read a few weeks ago was correct, the masters of the universe are at Porsche for the way they played the hedge funds to get the cash for their run on Volkswagon.
 
It's pretty simple. The American public just needs to get rid of this pre-conceived notion that Honda and Toyota are the be-all end-all cars of the world, and realize that the domestics are every bit as good, if not better, quality as them. People will start buying more domestics and they'll start making money again, making a bailout unnecessary.
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Originally Posted By: exranger06
The American public just needs to get rid of this pre-conceived notion ... and realize that the domestics are every bit as good

This may be true, but it's hard to win back customers. Those notions were conceived for good reasons - for me it was Detroit quality. I left for Japan in 1994 and Europe 2004 and have yet to return.
 
Originally Posted By: exranger06
It's pretty simple. The American public just needs to get rid of this pre-conceived notion that Honda and Toyota are the be-all end-all cars of the world, and realize that the domestics are every bit as good, if not better, quality as them. People will start buying more domestics and they'll start making money again, making a bailout unnecessary.
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But the reality of the matter is that for the last 2 decades, Toyota and Honda HAVE produced better cars. I know, we can all make specific claims like Subaru's head gasket problems, or the plethora of problems on the new Tundras, but on a grand scale, statistically, the "foreign" brands have been better. There's no denying it. The Big 3 have caught up FINALLY in the last few years in terms of quality, but as the economy was peaking, along with oil prices, their business models, especially at GM, was based on SUVs. OOPS, yet another stupid move on their part and yet another reason people are buying Toyota, Honda, and Subaru more.

On a side note, I think it's pretty funny that the reason Rick Wagoner says he needs to fly on a private jet at $20k/hour is for security. [censored] right, if I saw that [censored] in public, I'd kill him!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con...id=opinionsbox1

In addition to UAW paycuts, these executives shouldn't be making a dime more then what the President makes. All 3 of these sharks left from the same private airfield at the same time on 3 different corporate jets.
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That reality and the fact their companies are going bankrupt proves the American mega corporate business model is broken. If these fools at the top won't concede, they'll take the entire US down with them.
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Pensioners get frozen to (no more than) half their income, but keep their benefits (minus Bee-Ess stuff like Viagra). Too effen' bad if they have to sell their houses. The pension system is a broken pyramid scheme. There is no justifiable reason why an old bloke doing sweet nothing should receive more than the guy on the assembly line. Don't like it? Fine, let the the big three go Chapter 11 on their own, then they'll get not one iota of a penny.

Executives don't get a DIME until the brand returns to profitability. No profit should equal a thin wallet for an executive. Need references? See: Wal-Mart Corporation and Microsoft.

Vote out the UAW. If the autoworkers want to work another day, this may be their only glimmer of hope. The ones who walk out due to a 30% salary drop will come crawling back when they realize the equivalent wage at Toyota is still less.
 
It looks like they will not get the bailout money unless the big 3 abide by some concessions:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27824057


WASHINGTON - Democratic leaders in Congress sidetracked legislation to bail out the auto industry Thursday and demanded the Big Three develop a plan assuring the money would make them economically viable.

“Until they show us the plan, we cannot show them the money,” Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., said at a hastily called news conference in the Capitol.

She and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., said Congress would return to work in early December to vote on legislation if the General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC produce an acceptable plan.

The decision averted a likely defeat of legislation providing $25 billion loans for the industry. Reid and Pelosi both said there was no plan in circulation that could pass both houses of Congress and win President George W. Bush’s approval.

While the decision headed off the defeat of one bill, it did not necessarily translate into passage of a different one.

As a result, the fate of hundreds of thousands of auto workers and even of an iconic American industry hangs in the balance.

The chief executives of the Big Three automakers appealed personally to lawmakers for the loans this week, and warned that their industry might collapse without them. In testimony, they said their problem was that credit was unavailable, and not that they were manufacturing products that consumers had turned their backs on.

But whatever support they found sagged when it became known that each of them had flown into Washington aboard multi-million dollar corporate jets. Reid observed that was “difficult to explain” to taxpayers in his home town of Searchlight, Nev.

The automakers are on a tight timeline. Reid and Pelosi said their plan must be turned over to key lawmakers by Dec. 2 They said hearings were possible the first week of December, and Congress may return to session the following week to consider legislation.

Pelosi stressed that whatever the Big Three provided to Congress, it must show they had a plan for “viability and accountability,” meaning that the were transforming theoir industry in a way that it would become competitive, and that they were clear about how the federal loan money was used.

Even if lawmakers return to vote, they are likely to insist on numerous conditions on any loans. One possibility is to seek a partial ownership of the companies. Another is to limit salaries of top executives. A third is to prohibit use of the funds for any lobbying.
 
From my congressman (who voted both times against the financial bailout):

"If we turn our back on Main Street, if we continue to send all the money to Wall Street, who caused the problem, and the auto industry does have to go into bankruptcy, you will see foreclosure rates in this country skyrocket from people who have played by the rules and are currently paying their mortgages and are not part of the problem that Mr. Paulson says is already big enough to be worthy of addressing."
 
Quote:
if we continue to send all the money to Wall Street, who caused the problem,

Not true. The Federal Government is the root cause of this.

Quote:
Congress would return to work in early December to vote on legislation if the General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC produce an acceptable plan.


So in other words: "We can't get enough votes right now, so we are passing the blame back to the car companies."
Politics at it's finest.
 
Originally Posted By: Tempest

Not true. The Federal Government is the root cause of this.


Not for the big 3. Incompetent management is at fault. Yea, we have all these stupid regulations and CAFE standards to deal with, but Toyota and Honda has dealt with everything just fine - because they don't have greedy morons running their companies.
 
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
... but Toyota and Honda has dealt with everything just fine - because they don't have greedy morons running their companies.


Nor do they have greedy unions to deal with. Toyota and Honda don't have the same level of legacy costs that the unions have forced upon the Big 3.

How many Hondas and Toyotas are built in Michigan? Anyone?
 
Originally Posted By: Cutehumor

....In testimony, they said their problem was that credit was unavailable, and not that they were manufacturing products that consumers had turned their backs on.

....



I guess word hasn't filtered that far up the chain of command yet.
 
The big 3 have consistently been 5 years behind the market for the past decade. Probably because no one could get in touch with the CEO and the 50 mini mes below the CEO because they were too busy golfing.
 
Originally Posted By: Kestas
From my congressman
"If we turn our back on Main Street, if we continue to send all the money to Wall Street, who caused the problem, "

That statement is more than ignorant. Money to Wall Street???? Word Fodder for the ignorant masses.
 
Quote:
The jobs and companies will be saved, but they won't be UAW jobs. Finally.


Is there any chance of grouping The League of Distinguished Gentlemen in to something like the UAW? They've cleaned our clocks pretty thoroughly and are far more "dead weight" imo. Not that they have the vast numbers, but they surely, collectively, leave their mark on all of us...not just the auto industry.

How do you propose to dispose of these losers and parasites and their entitlement mentality now that they've clearly demonstrated no more fiscal restraint than a high school dropout with his first credit card and a blingmobile??
 
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