30,265 miles, Amsoil Series 2000 0W30, Ford Explor

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: tackleberry625
Originally Posted By: Steve S
I would like to ask and add that there are lots of miles in a short time,30,265 miles in 18 months,1681 per month.Is this freeway driving? in sunny Fla ? If so these are ideal conditions to get the best results from syn oil and a bypass filter. What would the uoa look like with the same oil and filters if the car was driven 3 miles round trip to the mall 5 days a week for 18 months?


I totally agree. I live in South Fl and between the heat, VERY heavy stop and go traffic, salt air and high hummity, the oil would need to be changed more often.


Yeah, but the Amsoil recommendation would be 17,500 miles or 1 year MAX in those conditions.

 

[Merkava_4]

I wonder what that oil looked like with 30K on it; I bet it was black black black.

 

[buster]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
I wonder what that oil looked like with 30K on it; I bet it was black black black.


I wonder what the inside looks like? Varnish?

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: buster
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
I wonder what that oil looked like with 30K on it; I bet it was black black black.


I wonder what the inside looks like? Varnish?


Assume,assume, assume. A least buster puts it in question form.

I'll bet the engine is just fine. Look at the UOA.

 

[tackleberry625]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: buster
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
I wonder what that oil looked like with 30K on it; I bet it was black black black.


I wonder what the inside looks like? Varnish?


Assume,assume, assume. A least buster puts it in question form.

I'll bet the engine is just fine. Look at the UOA.



I do agree with you some in aspects as the engine may be fine but as you say, look at the UOA. We are looking at Parts Per Million here, so it's like a needle in a hay stack when it comes to 30ppm or 30 particles and one million parts oil. When you look at the mileage on the oil compared to the PPM conversions, they look fairly good. The way I look at it is, the higher the PPM numbers are, no matter what the mileage is on the oil, the more wear that is going on inside your engine. People, not you Pabs or any one particular person here, brag all the time on there about how many miles they squeezed out of their OCI using an oil when their UOAs look horrible when you just look at the numbers (ppm) only. I look at it like this, an engine can cost from $1,000 - over 8K depending on the type and size and brand and whether you buy it used, rebuilt or new. I may be off on the price of a late model engine, because I'm more "old school" because I have worked on and built more of the older engines (Chevy 350, 383 stroker, 454, etc) than the newer ones. If the UAs for an engine for lets say, copper, is 14ppm for an OCI of 4K and an engine has 25K on an OCI but has 35ppm, that tells me there is more wear in the engine using an OCI of 25K than using a 4K UOA. IMO, I’d rather do the shorter OCIs and save wear on my expensive engine than being able to run around on this forum bragging that I squeezed 25K out of my oil when in reality you are ruining your engine. Now "shorter" OCIs are for the people that plan on keeping their car until the wheels fall off like me. If you lease the car or trade it in every 3 years, then who cares, do 30K OCIs using ST dino . Its like I tell people and my clients, for the love of [censored], just change your oil. Changing oil is much easier and cost affective than changing out an engine.

For excample, just look at all those Toyota sludged and jelled engines. People say its a pour design, poor maintance, etc. My mother has one of those sludge prone engines and I have been using Valvoline dino with 1/2 to 1 quart MMO each oil change, using 3500-4000 OCI and the inside of that engine is spotless. It looks like polished Alumium inside. Just change the oil and all will go well.

 

[dcoyne78]

I agree that the short intervals are safer, especially if there is any fuel dilution involved (which doesn't seem to be the case here based on the flashpoint). In your example however, I don't see how 14 ppm in 4k is better than 35 ppm over 25k (assuming that no deposits have formed over the 25k interval). Over 6 oil change intervals (4k times 6 = 24k) you would have 14 ppm times 6 = 84 ppm total wear (assuming the average ends up at 14 ppm for each oci). I am not sure I see how 84 ppm is better than 35 ppm, except that deposit formation is hard to measure, so you may still be right in the end. Oil is cheap engines are not.

Dennis

 

[dcoyne78]

In the case of this engine for Iron:
Mi Fe Fe/1000 mi
5k 8_ 1.6
17 24 1.4
25 26 1.0
30 34 1.1

Wear per mile is lower at 25k and 30k than at 5k or 17k.

 

[tackleberry625]

Originally Posted By: dcoyne78
In the case of this engine for Iron:
Mi Fe Fe/1000 mi
5k 8_ 1.6
17 24 1.4
25 26 1.0
30 34 1.1

Wear per mile is lower at 25k and 30k than at 5k or 17k.


you are just looking at one element tho. You have to look at the hole picture. The thickeness or cst and everything as a hole. Also, yes the oil went down ever so slightly. Show me .5 of one PPM.

 

[tackleberry625]

Originally Posted By: dcoyne78
I agree that the short intervals are safer, especially if there is any fuel dilution involved (which doesn't seem to be the case here based on the flashpoint). In your example however, I don't see how 14 ppm in 4k is better than 35 ppm over 25k (assuming that no deposits have formed over the 25k interval). Over 6 oil change intervals (4k times 6 = 24k) you would have 14 ppm times 6 = 84 ppm total wear (assuming the average ends up at 14 ppm for each oci). I am not sure I see how 84 ppm is better than 35 ppm, except that deposit formation is hard to measure, so you may still be right in the end. Oil is cheap engines are not.

Dennis


yea as I said in another thread, I may not have used the greatest numbers for comparision but I hope ya'll get the point I was trying to make.

 

[tackleberry625]

Let me try to put it like this...............If someone plans to run X brand oil (lets say M1 EP) for a 15K OCI without sampling because M1 says they can and they get their UOA back and the numbers are a lot higher than the UAs because the M1 did not hold up because of the many different driving conditions we are all subjected to. If driver 1 gets in his car with a good quality syn oil and just drives across the county until they get to a 15K OCI, I bet their UOA will look better than driver 2 that sits in very heavy stop and go traffic in hot, humid tropical conditions each day going the same 15K OCI. Instead of everyone trying to push the oil to 15K because that's what the bottle says or because that's what they tell you on tv, just change it at say 5K so you know you are safe. Not everyone does UOAs to see how far they can "push" their oils. Hopefully that clears it up. If not, I give up, lol

 

[dcoyne78]

I agree, the shorter intervals are safer. If someone wants to run extended ocis, they clearly need to do oil analysis to be safe. In this particular case aldive has done a bunch of oil analyses and they have looked good. I also agree that driving conditions matter, short trip stop and go driving, particularly in very cold (or for stop and go very hot) weather necessitate shorter drains. Under the right conditions such as lots of highway miles or low traffic country road driving in moderate weather conditions, longer intervals are possible, particularly with a good synthetic. Basically I agree with you that without oil analysis 5k intervals are safest, with oil analysis it is sometimes safe to go longer.

 

[Gilberttribe]

Originally Posted By: dcoyne78
In the case of this engine for Iron:
Mi Fe Fe/1000 mi
5k 8_ 1.6
17 24 1.4
25 26 1.0
30 34 1.1

Wear per mile is lower at 25k and 30k than at 5k or 17k.


Although it doesn't make sense to me, one could easily make the argument that based on many analysis reports here that changing your oil more frequently causes more wear. The numbers above point to that as do many other UOAs. Is it possible that new oil doesn't "wear" as well as used oil up to a point? Or, is something else happening?

 

[tackleberry625]

Originally Posted By: Gilberttribe
Originally Posted By: dcoyne78
In the case of this engine for Iron:
Mi Fe Fe/1000 mi
5k 8_ 1.6
17 24 1.4
25 26 1.0
30 34 1.1

Wear per mile is lower at 25k and 30k than at 5k or 17k.


Although it doesn't make sense to me, one could easily make the argument that based on many analysis reports here that changing your oil more frequently causes more wear. The numbers above point to that as do many other UOAs. Is it possible that new oil doesn't "wear" as well as used oil up to a point? Or, is something else happening?


Or could it be particulates are not perfectly round and one pass through the oil filter they get by and the next time they are trapped? Just food for thought. I could be totally off but just thought I'd throw that out there.

 

[benjamming]

Originally Posted By: Gilberttribe
Is it possible that new oil doesn't "wear" as well as used oil up to a point? Or, is something else happening?


Wear is not linear. Changing oil brands, types, whatever doesn't help the blanket comparisons either, IMHO.

 

[tackleberry625]

Originally Posted By: dcoyne78
I agree, the shorter intervals are safer. If someone wants to run extended ocis, they clearly need to do oil analysis to be safe. In this particular case aldive has done a bunch of oil analyses and they have looked good. I also agree that driving conditions matter, short trip stop and go driving, particularly in very cold (or for stop and go very hot) weather necessitate shorter drains. Under the right conditions such as lots of highway miles or low traffic country road driving in moderate weather conditions, longer intervals are possible, particularly with a good synthetic. Basically I agree with you that without oil analysis 5k intervals are safest, with oil analysis it is sometimes safe to go longer.


I hope I finally said it the way I meant for it to come out. I have nothing against longer OCIs if, based on UOAs, they prove beneficial to the engine. I hate to see someone do 10K, do a UOA and think it looks good and they think they can go to a 18K, then their wear metals sky rocket. I don't want to see someone ruin their costly investment because they are trying to save $20.00 on an oil change when in turn the UOA cost more than an oil change in most cases. Talk about wasting money. I thought the reason for longer OCIs is to save money in the long run. Lets say a UOA cost $35-$60.00 and in a 30K OCI you do a UOA every 5K, that 6 UOAs at a cost of roughly $210.00 - $360, and even a little more if you do a Dyson UOA. Bottom line is, on a safe and cost affective basis, just changing your oil every 5K and doing a UOA once a year or so to “spot check” your engine and not trying to stretch it all the time to prove something, is much cheaper and a lot of times, better for your engine. I know not all people try to push their oil 30K but you get my point. Just my .02.

 

[Tempest]

Originally Posted By: benjamming
Originally Posted By: Gilberttribe
Is it possible that new oil doesn't "wear" as well as used oil up to a point? Or, is something else happening?


Wear is not linear. Changing oil brands, types, whatever doesn't help the blanket comparisons either, IMHO.

Yes, and there has been talk of the new oil dissolving/weakening the existing AW films formed from the previous oil. Nothing conclusive though.

 

[02zx9r]

Originally Posted By: tackleberry625
Originally Posted By: 02zx9r
Originally Posted By: tackleberry625

I know I wasn’t gonna change my oil when I sent it in for a UOA but when that hot oil came out of the oil pan and burnt the %#&^ outta me, I decided to change it (non voluntarily), lol.


LOL, i feel your pain brother!

How far do you go with the synpower?


Sorry it took me so long to respond. Yea that hot oil is a SOB. This is my first run with the Synpower and I only have about 800 miles on it in about 2.5 months. I don't use the truck much so it's gonna be a while before I'm ready for another UOA.


No worries, I changed my oil Sunday and put in 4.5 quarts Val synpower 5W30. Gonna attempt to go 7500 miles on it. Although I am moving back to newport this month so my daily round trip commute to work will be cut back from 62 miles to probably under 10 miles, so from around 1500 miles/ month to probably under 700 miles/month

 

[tackleberry625]

I hope the Synpower works well for you. I know Valvoline dino does well so I have faith in the Synpower. Good luck.

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: Tempest
Originally Posted By: benjamming
Originally Posted By: Gilberttribe
Is it possible that new oil doesn't "wear" as well as used oil up to a point? Or, is something else happening?


Wear is not linear. Changing oil brands, types, whatever doesn't help the blanket comparisons either, IMHO.

Yes, and there has been talk of the new oil dissolving/weakening the existing AW films formed from the previous oil. Nothing conclusive though.


Yes, tons of speculation ..no conclusions. Fe, however, does "tend" to track mileage ..but then you can branch off into lots of other reasons why.

btw- the numbers quoted in ppm/mile, although trending downward, are in a very narrow range. It would be a whole lot easier to "suggest" meaning if it was a broader span of variance.

 

[tackleberry625]

Originally Posted By: aldive
Originally Posted By: Eiron
Originally Posted By: dcoyne78
Any makeup oil added over 30k? Oil filter or bypass filter changed?
In addition to these questions, I'd like to know how many quarts the entire system & bypass setup holds, & how long it's taken you to reach this distance.


Holds 6 1/2 quarts of oil. Time was 18 months.


It sounds like you were driving in idel conditions (highway miles) because of the amount of mileage in the short amount of time.