My daughter has a 2004 Mercury Sable, auto, DOHC. The transmission has no drain plug, you have to drop the pan. Since I have to drop the pan, why not clean it out and replace the filter? Since I am doing all of that, why not do a complete flush? So I got to thinking, the manual calls for a drain and refill at 30,000 miles, and acknowledges about 1/2 remains in the transmission. If I do a complete flush, is it good to do that every 60,000 instead of replacing 1/2 the fluid at 30,000 miles? I use Valvoline Maxlife Dex/Merc.
30,000 or 60,000
- Thread starter Mark_S
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I know it is more time consuming for you but I would also agree with doing a pan drop. Clean it and replace the filter and fluid and you will be good to go for another 30-45k.
I went through this on the same car albeit a Taurus.
Ford procedure is drain and fill through transmission line which results in a full exchange. Procedure can be found at the Taurus Club forum and their wiki.
Filter is only changed at 120k / 12 years.
I did both at 65k / 7.5 years. It was due for fluid only but I thought why not do both so I can see the condition of the pan. Transmission is a known weak point. Some change fluid yearly.
Use Mercon V not Dex/Merc. This is important.
Definitely it requires full fluid exchange every 30k. 15k if it is severe service.
Ford procedure is drain and fill through transmission line which results in a full exchange. Procedure can be found at the Taurus Club forum and their wiki.
Filter is only changed at 120k / 12 years.
I did both at 65k / 7.5 years. It was due for fluid only but I thought why not do both so I can see the condition of the pan. Transmission is a known weak point. Some change fluid yearly.
Use Mercon V not Dex/Merc. This is important.
Definitely it requires full fluid exchange every 30k. 15k if it is severe service.
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JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: DrDusty86
Drop the pan and change the filter..Don't over think this
+1.
If the car has a dipstick, and you want to be more aggressive with maintenance, get a dipstick extractor, and just pull that amount of fluid each OCI. Tractor supply sells good ones.
Makes it cleaner when dropping the pan too...
Drop the pan and change the filter..Don't over think this
+1.
If the car has a dipstick, and you want to be more aggressive with maintenance, get a dipstick extractor, and just pull that amount of fluid each OCI. Tractor supply sells good ones.
Makes it cleaner when dropping the pan too...
It seems I wasn't clear. I have to drop the pan, no matter what. My question is, is it better/worse/same to change only the fluid that comes from the pan (about 1/2 the total fluid) and do this every 30,000 miles or go ahead and flush everything and do it every 60,000 miles? Thanks.
I would do the pan drop and refill the balance and do it every 30k. That will be more than enough for the health of your transmission.
BUT...There is no wrong option out of the two.
BUT...There is no wrong option out of the two.
Kestas
Staff member
I look at it this way - I don't do partial oil changes, so why should I do partial transmission fluid changes?... especially when I have the tools and technique to do it right.
I definitely agree with dropping the pan to get rid of the break-in debris and silt.
Do whatever you're comfortable with. Either plan sounds reasonable.
I definitely agree with dropping the pan to get rid of the break-in debris and silt.
Do whatever you're comfortable with. Either plan sounds reasonable.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: Mark_S
It seems I wasn't clear. I have to drop the pan, no matter what. My question is, is it better/worse/same to change only the fluid that comes from the pan (about 1/2 the total fluid) and do this every 30,000 miles or go ahead and flush everything and do it every 60,000 miles? Thanks.
Generally the flush is sold as an alternative to dropping the pan.
Optimally a flush of all the fluid at a regular interval is best - get out all the fluid, what can be better?
After the first filter swap to get break-in junk out, youre likely OK for 100k. After all, most cars rate the system for that long anyway.
Personally, id do what I stated, and drop the pan every 30-60k, and just incrementally refresh the fluid by pulling from the dipstick, each OCI. It is the simplest/most painless process that you can do, and it actually makes it easier to do the pan drop when youve sucked most of the fluid from there too.
Some TCs have a drain plug in them. My MB does.
But I still like the basis of to not overthink it...
It seems I wasn't clear. I have to drop the pan, no matter what. My question is, is it better/worse/same to change only the fluid that comes from the pan (about 1/2 the total fluid) and do this every 30,000 miles or go ahead and flush everything and do it every 60,000 miles? Thanks.
Generally the flush is sold as an alternative to dropping the pan.
Optimally a flush of all the fluid at a regular interval is best - get out all the fluid, what can be better?
After the first filter swap to get break-in junk out, youre likely OK for 100k. After all, most cars rate the system for that long anyway.
Personally, id do what I stated, and drop the pan every 30-60k, and just incrementally refresh the fluid by pulling from the dipstick, each OCI. It is the simplest/most painless process that you can do, and it actually makes it easier to do the pan drop when youve sucked most of the fluid from there too.
Some TCs have a drain plug in them. My MB does.
But I still like the basis of to not overthink it...
Originally Posted By: Mark_S
It seems I wasn't clear. I have to drop the pan, no matter what. My question is, is it better/worse/same to change only the fluid that comes from the pan (about 1/2 the total fluid) and do this every 30,000 miles or go ahead and flush everything and do it every 60,000 miles? Thanks.
Perhaps another option for you to consider.
Every 30k, do a fluid exchange through the trans line.
Every 60k, do a pan drop, replace filter, do the fluid exchange.
It seems I wasn't clear. I have to drop the pan, no matter what. My question is, is it better/worse/same to change only the fluid that comes from the pan (about 1/2 the total fluid) and do this every 30,000 miles or go ahead and flush everything and do it every 60,000 miles? Thanks.
Perhaps another option for you to consider.
Every 30k, do a fluid exchange through the trans line.
Every 60k, do a pan drop, replace filter, do the fluid exchange.
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Please see my earlier post. I researched this issue extensively.
Ford procedure is full exchange using transmission line. You can find the procedure quite easily on the Taurus forums and wiki.
You need to do a full exchange every 30k if not sooner.
Ford procedure is full exchange using transmission line. You can find the procedure quite easily on the Taurus forums and wiki.
You need to do a full exchange every 30k if not sooner.
I'm confused. I have a Haynes Manual that says:
Automatic transaxle fluid and filter change (every 30,000 miles or 24 months)
The transaxle fluid should be drained and replaced at the specified intervals. Draining the fluid as described here will not drain the torque converter, which holds 4 to 5 quarts. Therefore, do not fill the transaxle with the total amount of fluid listed in this Chapter's Specifications (12.2 quarts).
The procedure is simply pan drop, clean out, and filter replacement every 30,000 miles. They speak only of draining. Nothing about full flushes. I know Haynes isn't Ford Motor Co, so is it wrong? Does Mercury require a full flush every 30,000 miles?
Thanks for your responses.
Automatic transaxle fluid and filter change (every 30,000 miles or 24 months)
The transaxle fluid should be drained and replaced at the specified intervals. Draining the fluid as described here will not drain the torque converter, which holds 4 to 5 quarts. Therefore, do not fill the transaxle with the total amount of fluid listed in this Chapter's Specifications (12.2 quarts).
The procedure is simply pan drop, clean out, and filter replacement every 30,000 miles. They speak only of draining. Nothing about full flushes. I know Haynes isn't Ford Motor Co, so is it wrong? Does Mercury require a full flush every 30,000 miles?
Thanks for your responses.
The most knowledgeable people on this are on the Taurus forums and the wiki will get you the info you need far quicker than getting all sorts of opinions from here.
Your official maintenance schedule should say change fluid at 30k / 3 years. Filter at 120k / 12 years. The capacity in your Haynes manual also seems to be different (lower) than the official Ford capacity.
The instructions on the Taurus forums have more information on them, pictures and useful tips.
Have you looked at your owner's maintenance schedule and fluid capacities in the owner's guide? Do you have the AX4N transmission?
Your official maintenance schedule should say change fluid at 30k / 3 years. Filter at 120k / 12 years. The capacity in your Haynes manual also seems to be different (lower) than the official Ford capacity.
The instructions on the Taurus forums have more information on them, pictures and useful tips.
Have you looked at your owner's maintenance schedule and fluid capacities in the owner's guide? Do you have the AX4N transmission?
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Here are the instructions my mechanic followed. He used 14 quarts. These instructions are close to the ones on the Taurus wiki.
This is for a 2004 Taurus 3.0 DOHC Duratec
1.Place the transaxle range selector lever in the PARK position.
2.Set the parking brake.
3.Start the engine and check the transmission fluid level and condition. For additional information, refer to Fluid Level Check under Preliminary Inspection.
4.Turn the engine off.
5.Raise the vehicle on a hoist.
6.Remove the lower retaining clip from the lower transaxle cooler line fitting.
7.Depress the tabs on the plastic insert retainer and remove cooler line from fitting.
8.Attach a flexible hose, approximately 0.9 inch (3.0 ft.) in length, to the fluid cooler tube with the other end in a suitable, 15-quart container.
9.NOTE: When plugging the cooler tube fitting make sure the plug is made of a soft material to prevent damage to the internal seal of the cooler tube fitting.
Insert a plug into the cooler tube fitting on the transaxle.
10.Lower the vehicle.
11.CAUTION: When the steady stream of transmission fluid stops flowing, the engine must be turned off to prevent damage to the transaxle. Engine rpm should not exceed curb idle speed while draining the transmission fluid.
Start the engine and run at idle while observing the flexible hose for 40-60 seconds until the steady stream of fluid stops flowing. Turn the engine off. This step will drain approximately 1.9 - 2.8 liters (2 - 3 quarts) of transmission fluid.
12.Fill the transaxle with 9.5 liters (10 quarts) of clean automatic transmission fluid.
13.CAUTION: When the steady stream of transmission fluid stops flowing, the engine must be turned off to prevent damage to the transaxle. Engine rpm should not exceed curb idle speed while draining the transmission fluid.
Start the engine and run at idle while observing the flexible hose for 2-3 minutes until the steady stream of fluid stops flowing. Turn the engine off. This step will drain approximately 9.5 liters (10 quarts).
14.Raise and suitably support the vehicle.
15.Remove the plug from the cooler tube fitting.
16.Remove the flex hose from the cooler tube.
17.NOTE: Clean the cooler tube fitting before installing it to ensure a good connection and to prevent any leaks.
Install the lower cooler tube.
18.Lower the vehicle.
19.Fill the transaxle with 1.9 liters (2 quarts) of clean automatic transmission fluid.
20.Start the engine and move the transaxle range selector lever through all the ranges allowing the transaxle to engage in each position.
21.Check the transaxle at normal operating temperature. Fluid should be within the crosshatch area of the fluid level indicator. If the fluid is not within the crosshatched area add fluid in 0.2365-liter (1/2 pint) increments until the correct level is achieved.
This is for a 2004 Taurus 3.0 DOHC Duratec
1.Place the transaxle range selector lever in the PARK position.
2.Set the parking brake.
3.Start the engine and check the transmission fluid level and condition. For additional information, refer to Fluid Level Check under Preliminary Inspection.
4.Turn the engine off.
5.Raise the vehicle on a hoist.
6.Remove the lower retaining clip from the lower transaxle cooler line fitting.
7.Depress the tabs on the plastic insert retainer and remove cooler line from fitting.
8.Attach a flexible hose, approximately 0.9 inch (3.0 ft.) in length, to the fluid cooler tube with the other end in a suitable, 15-quart container.
9.NOTE: When plugging the cooler tube fitting make sure the plug is made of a soft material to prevent damage to the internal seal of the cooler tube fitting.
Insert a plug into the cooler tube fitting on the transaxle.
10.Lower the vehicle.
11.CAUTION: When the steady stream of transmission fluid stops flowing, the engine must be turned off to prevent damage to the transaxle. Engine rpm should not exceed curb idle speed while draining the transmission fluid.
Start the engine and run at idle while observing the flexible hose for 40-60 seconds until the steady stream of fluid stops flowing. Turn the engine off. This step will drain approximately 1.9 - 2.8 liters (2 - 3 quarts) of transmission fluid.
12.Fill the transaxle with 9.5 liters (10 quarts) of clean automatic transmission fluid.
13.CAUTION: When the steady stream of transmission fluid stops flowing, the engine must be turned off to prevent damage to the transaxle. Engine rpm should not exceed curb idle speed while draining the transmission fluid.
Start the engine and run at idle while observing the flexible hose for 2-3 minutes until the steady stream of fluid stops flowing. Turn the engine off. This step will drain approximately 9.5 liters (10 quarts).
14.Raise and suitably support the vehicle.
15.Remove the plug from the cooler tube fitting.
16.Remove the flex hose from the cooler tube.
17.NOTE: Clean the cooler tube fitting before installing it to ensure a good connection and to prevent any leaks.
Install the lower cooler tube.
18.Lower the vehicle.
19.Fill the transaxle with 1.9 liters (2 quarts) of clean automatic transmission fluid.
20.Start the engine and move the transaxle range selector lever through all the ranges allowing the transaxle to engage in each position.
21.Check the transaxle at normal operating temperature. Fluid should be within the crosshatch area of the fluid level indicator. If the fluid is not within the crosshatched area add fluid in 0.2365-liter (1/2 pint) increments until the correct level is achieved.
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is it me or is running the transaxle DRY a bad idea.. IE when fluid stops flowing add 10qts.. If it's not dry, it's darn close. My trans will never ever be "flushed".
It's like pull your engine drain plug, start you engine and when oil stops coming out of drain hole, stop engine..UUHH the damage is already done..but if you don't run your engine to pump ALL your oil out you are only doing an 80% change.
Matter of fact I'm TOTALLY against buying a car where the owner says the trans was flushed.
It's like pull your engine drain plug, start you engine and when oil stops coming out of drain hole, stop engine..UUHH the damage is already done..but if you don't run your engine to pump ALL your oil out you are only doing an 80% change.
Matter of fact I'm TOTALLY against buying a car where the owner says the trans was flushed.
Originally Posted By: DrDusty86
is it me or is running the transaxle DRY a bad idea.. IE when fluid stops flowing add 10qts.. If it's not dry, it's darn close. My trans will never ever be "flushed".
It's like pull your engine drain plug, start you engine and when oil stops coming out of drain hole, stop engine..UUHH the damage is already done..but if you don't run your engine to pump ALL your oil out you are only doing an 80% change.
Matter of fact I'm TOTALLY against buying a car where the owner says the trans was flushed.
You can stop the engine after 2-3 quarts have been drained, add those quarts, and repeat until the fluid exiting the cooler return line is clean. That way you don't chance running the pump dry.
is it me or is running the transaxle DRY a bad idea.. IE when fluid stops flowing add 10qts.. If it's not dry, it's darn close. My trans will never ever be "flushed".
It's like pull your engine drain plug, start you engine and when oil stops coming out of drain hole, stop engine..UUHH the damage is already done..but if you don't run your engine to pump ALL your oil out you are only doing an 80% change.
Matter of fact I'm TOTALLY against buying a car where the owner says the trans was flushed.
You can stop the engine after 2-3 quarts have been drained, add those quarts, and repeat until the fluid exiting the cooler return line is clean. That way you don't chance running the pump dry.
we've done this for years after we bought a B&G "flush" machine at an auction. It was nothing more than a bladder and a tank in a cabinet! The only real value was a ton of different adapters to hook it up to almost any car.
We sold it, and simply idle the trucks and watch the line carefully as it flows into a bucket. The second you see air you shut her down and add fluid. No damage of any kind.
It's so simple it's actually hard to understand?
We sold it, and simply idle the trucks and watch the line carefully as it flows into a bucket. The second you see air you shut her down and add fluid. No damage of any kind.
It's so simple it's actually hard to understand?
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: DrDusty86
Drop the pan and change the filter..Don't over think this
+1.
If the car has a dipstick, and you want to be more aggressive with maintenance, get a dipstick extractor, and just pull that amount of fluid each OCI. Tractor supply sells good ones.
Makes it cleaner when dropping the pan too...
Ok. Does this method help to "extract through the dip stick" , the whole ATF volume (10 qt.) instead of just the partial volume ?
Originally Posted By: DrDusty86
Drop the pan and change the filter..Don't over think this
+1.
If the car has a dipstick, and you want to be more aggressive with maintenance, get a dipstick extractor, and just pull that amount of fluid each OCI. Tractor supply sells good ones.
Makes it cleaner when dropping the pan too...
Ok. Does this method help to "extract through the dip stick" , the whole ATF volume (10 qt.) instead of just the partial volume ?
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