2nd Kreen Cleaning -- 98 Camry V6 -- Results

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: Artem
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Trav, it is interesting to note that Kano Labs gave Artem no grief on his refund. I believe all he did was notify them by phone that he was dissatisfied. Do you know if he had to return empty cans or jump through some other kind of hoops?

Basic Character 101, honor your guarantee. The funny thing is now they simply don't...

All the gorilla marketers will have to check in with the mothership for new tactics now.


I contacted Kano Labs via email and simply said that I used their product as described on the back of the can (added a pint every 1,000 miles) and didn't see any cleaning results. I was then contacted via email and a refund was issued. I recycled the empty cans and no jumping of any kind of hoops was needed.

I dislike their product as it didn't do anything for me but am happy at the end of the day by their customer service.


I appreciate your candor. There's a fundamental difference there worth noting, and that is when I contacted ARX I was ridiculed and belittled. Not something easily forgotten.

Funny that otherwise our two completely different products yielded similar results! This merely proves that all cars are different, drivers are different, and duty cycles are also.

 

[demarpaint]

Artem since you have sneak peak shots to PM to anyone who asks for them but don't have the time at the moment to post the pics why not comment on the results now? From the way this thread has grown there is sure a lot of interest.

 

[Mystic]

This has been an incredibly successful posting. Take a look at how many views this post has had. A lot of people will learn something from this post.

Some engines because of design are just sludge monsters. This was true a while back in the case of some vehicles such as Dodge Durangos and some Toyota cars. It would be hard for any motor oil to keep such an engine clean. There was a discussion a long time back here at bobistheoilguy.com about this.

The engine in this car would probably have to be physically cleaned. After that if somehow there could be more cooling capacity it might help. If I owned the car I think I would sell it and find another car.

I think the average car or truck engine that does not have these sludge issues could be kept reasonably clean using Mobil 1 or Pennzoil Ultra (Platinum) oil.

 

[roadrunner1]

Originally Posted By: Mystic
This has been an incredibly successful posting. Take a look at how many views this post has had. A lot of people will learn something from this post.

Some engines because of design are just sludge monsters. This was true a while back in the case of some vehicles such as Dodge Durangos and some Toyota cars. It would be hard for any motor oil to keep such an engine clean. There was a discussion a long time back here at bobistheoilguy.com about this.

The engine in this car would probably have to be physically cleaned. After that if somehow there could be more cooling capacity it might help. If I owned the car I think I would sell it and find another car.

I think the average car or truck engine that does not have these sludge issues could be kept reasonably clean using Mobil 1 or Pennzoil Ultra (Platinum) oil.


An engine without these "known issues" can be kept clean with just about any oil the proper grade/ API spec, and a normal OCI. Synthetic isn't needed to keep a non-sludgemaker clean.

 

[Mystic]

Well, with that engine if conventional motor oil was used there would be a need for short OCIs. But first the engine will have to be cleaned.

If somebody wants to do a search they will find a lot of information here at bobistheoilguy.com concerning sludge prone engines in some Toyotas in the past and Dodge Durangos.

 

[Bodensee]

Very good of you to send pictures and nice pictures, but I think sludge is heavy than oil, so some pictures of sump would be big improvement. Have seen diesel blown up by blocks in oil pump feed that looked real good on top, but solid mess in sump.

If you remove all varnish from old engine I think it might leak higher, old seals need some varnish to work good.

Also I heard many years since, that serious varnish caused by bad sludge slowing down oil flow around top block and causes hot areas to form varnish.

If it was my old motor I clean sump and feed area, switch to good HM oil with the shortish OCI and made Germany filter and sleep well.

No real cause for extra things to add to oil.

 

[ADFD1]

Originally Posted By: Bodensee
Very good of you to send pictures and nice pictures, but I think sludge is heavy than oil, so some pictures of sump would be big improvement. Have seen diesel blown up by blocks in oil pump feed that looked real good on top, but solid mess in sump.

If you remove all varnish from old engine I think it might leak higher, old seals need some varnish to work good.

Also I heard many years since, that serious varnish caused by bad sludge slowing down oil flow around top block and causes hot areas to form varnish.

If it was my old motor I clean sump and feed area, switch to good HM oil with the shortish OCI and made Germany filter and sleep well.

No real cause for extra things to add to oil.


That sounds really good to me, but not everybody has the time, cash, or skills to do that, which is why they try these cleaners. Some work really good too, some not so good.

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: ADFD1
That sounds really good to me, but not everybody has the time, cash, or skills to do that, which is why they try these cleaners. Some work really good too, some not so good.

+1 Yes that sounds great but every case is different, there are no blanket statements that are applicable to all.
If its an old Opel Rekord or Ford Fiesta that takes 5 min with a small impact driver to pull the pan off then sure why not but what a bout something like a N* or Ford mod in an suv that needs to come out to replace the pan then what?

Some of these take a lot of hrs labor to R&R the pan and include dropping subframes to remove the engine in some cases.
At that point you might as well go ahead ad freshen the engine with bearings, rings and even pistons if its a slapper and a top end job. this could cost a fortune.
IMHO with something like this unless the thing is low on oil pressure then its more than acceptable to give mechanic in a can or genie in a bottle with some short OCI a shot.

I treat every case i get individually, fortunately they are getting fewer and fewer every year. Modern motor oils are doing a better job than they ever did.

 

[demarpaint]

I got an email advertisement from Mobil today, you might want to check out their 5W20 EP oil.

Here's some text that I copied and pasted: Notice they didn't mention varnish though. Pretty smart on their part I'd say.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Announcing Mobil 1™ High Mileage 5W-20 oil, which joins our lineup of Mobil 1 High Mileage synthetic motor oils designed to help maximize engine performance and extend the engine life of vehicles with more than 75,000 miles.

Did you know that Mobil 1 High Mileage motor oil can clean up virtually all engine sludge after just one oil change? In a 2009 Chrysler Sebring that had significant sludge formation, we tested both Mobil 1 and Mobil 1 High Mileage oils. Both formulations cleaned up virtually all engine sludge in just one oil change (4,000 miles).

In vehicles with more than 75,000 miles, Mobil 1 High Mileage oil offers a two-fold punch: it helps prevent leaks and removes the sludge that conventional oils can leave behind.

 

[Trav]

That sounds impressive! I trust a big company like Mobil and SOPUS, they have the $$$ and resources to test and test again to back their statements and claims up with some hard data.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Trav
That sounds impressive! I trust a big company like Mobil and SOPUS, they have the $$$ and resources to test and test again to back their statements and claims up with some hard data.


I'd say so, I'd give it a shot if I wanted to clean up sludge or I bought a used car with unknown history. I don't use HM oils, but this one is certainly worthy or a try if I had the need for it.

 

[greenjp]

How is Mobil's advertising any different from any of the other companies? A couple weeks ago I posted claims from Mobil, Castrol, and Valvoline on this subject. They, along with Pennzoil, all say the same stuff. Sure Mobil says that both regular Mobil 1 and the HM versions cleaned "virtually" all the sludge from one particular car (how'd they both do it separately?) but really it's all just advertising. I'm still partial to Castrol GTX's "maximum protection against thermal breakdown." Anyone really believe there is no better oil than GTX in that regard?

jeff

 

[Trajan]

It isn't any different. It's all marketing. They pay firms big bucks to convince you that *their* oil is better than everyone else's.

Sopus is better than Castrol is better than Pennzoil is better than Mobil is better than Sopus.

The above is in no particular order.

ARX is better than Kreen, (per Artem), is better than MMO is better than Lucas is better than ARX.

Round and round it goes.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: greenjp
How is Mobil's advertising any different from any of the other companies? A couple weeks ago I posted claims from Mobil, Castrol, and Valvoline on this subject. They, along with Pennzoil, all say the same stuff. Sure Mobil says that both regular Mobil 1 and the HM versions cleaned "virtually" all the sludge from one particular car (how'd they both do it separately?) but really it's all just advertising. I'm still partial to Castrol GTX's "maximum protection against thermal breakdown." Anyone really believe there is no better oil than GTX in that regard?

jeff


I mentioned it here for two reasons. 1. Was their claim to clean sludge. 2. They stood clear of making any claims to clean varnish.

Yes its advertising, hype, and the usual B_S I'd expect from an oil company. OTOH Mobil IMO has some of the highest quality and best advertising of any of the oil companies. They don't bash their competition, and have the resources to actually test their products.

What I copied and pasted I felt fit in this thread. Artem is using an oil that makes the claim that it cleans. Now there's another oil he can try if he decides to try oil alone again if PU fails.

 

[V8man]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Now there's another oil he can try if he decides to try oil alone if PU fails.


Artem has already used Mobil 1, I believe awhile back he was doing 3K-5K OCI's with this oil. I think he should stick with PU for a few OCI's.

 

[demarpaint]

I'm pretty sure he didn't use the oil I'm referring to, its a new 5W20 HM M1 oil that recently came out. I left the link out so I didn't break any rules.

 

[V8man]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I'm pretty sure he didn't use the oil I'm referring to, its a new 5W20 HM M1 oil that recently came out. I left the link out so I didn't break any rules.


You are correct, Artem has not used Mobil 1 HM.

 

[Mystic]

The Mobil 1 HM presumably cleans even better than regular Mobil 1. It would probably have more detergent because of the higher mileage engines it would be put into.

 

[KCJeep]

I believe "LeakySeals" has posted Mobil 1 HM did some good cleaning for him.

 

[Mystic]

In the testing that Pennzoil did Mobil 1 was the different brand that was second to Pennzoil. And they tested regular Mobil 1 so the Mobil 1 HM may clean even better and perhaps as good as Pennzoil Ultra.