When I take my Beemer in for the 600-mile check later this month, I will include a Blackstone sample bottle to capture the oil drain. Outside of the moly discussion, I'm just curious about the wear metals, and will follow-up with subsequent UOAs to see how the engine is wearing-in, seeing as this is my 1st Boxer engine ownership experience.
'24 BMW R12 NineT Break-In
- Thread starter B6_Dolphin
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Not that it's a hard and fast rule, but break in oil typically is a different formulation than what goes in the crankcase from that point forward. Very interesting to see what the analysis holds for info.
That's not my experience. When working for an OEM car mfger, oil was purchased based on the cheapest price. There was no special break in oil.
Regarding oil analysis at 600 miles, it's going to show lots of metal. Not meaningful information. I'd wait for several thousand miles before doing analysis.
In the UOA section, do a search for "factory fill"... here are the first four consisting of a BMW, Nissan, Subaru and Toyota. You are saying break in oil across 4 manufacturers shown is the cheapest and no difference between this and regular oil, per se? Not seeing it.
Like I said, break-in oil is typically a different formulation.
Like I said, break-in oil is typically a different formulation.
Just did a break-in oil change at 1k miles and sent the factory fill oil & a virgin sample of LL22FE++ for oil analyses. Quite a surprise to see that LL22FE++ has high Calcium content. Isn't BMW worried about LSPI, since this oil is also recommended for Gen 3 B48?
Gen 3 B58 in the US now comes with GPF, so LL01 and LL01FE are no longer an option. LL17FE+ and LL12FE are still technically suitable per BMW TIS. Should I stick with LL22FE++ or go with LL17FE+ or LL12FE during the warranty period?
Factory fill analysis:
Virgin LL22FE++:
Gen 3 B58 in the US now comes with GPF, so LL01 and LL01FE are no longer an option. LL17FE+ and LL12FE are still technically suitable per BMW TIS. Should I stick with LL22FE++ or go with LL17FE+ or LL12FE during the warranty period?
Factory fill analysis:
Virgin LL22FE++:
First time oil analysis on a new 2025 Sentra SV 2.0 DGI. Mostly short hop city driving. Oil changed with Valvoline Advanced 0w20 and a Nissan 15208-65FOE Oil Filter.
Was curious about results on this unit and decided to run a sample. Lots of chatter on the Net about RTV issues and break-in metals. Cut the filter open and saw nothing to be alarmed about. I'm not certain about 0W20 in a high rpm motor but that's another discussion. The oil change consisted of Valvoline EP 0W20 and a Subaru 15208AA170 (Japan). Break-in was kept below 4,000 RPM per owners manual.
In the UOA section, do a search for "factory fill"... here are the first four consisting of a BMW, Nissan, Subaru and Toyota. You are saying break in oil across 4 manufacturers shown is the cheapest and no difference between this and regular oil, per se? Not seeing it.
Like I said, break-in oil is typically a different formulation.
Just did a break-in oil change at 1k miles and sent the factory fill oil & a virgin sample of LL22FE++ for oil analyses. Quite a surprise to see that LL22FE++ has high Calcium content. Isn't BMW worried about LSPI, since this oil is also recommended for Gen 3 B48?
Gen 3 B58 in the US now comes with GPF, so LL01 and LL01FE are no longer an option. LL17FE+ and LL12FE are still technically suitable per BMW TIS. Should I stick with LL22FE++ or go with LL17FE+ or LL12FE during the warranty period?
Factory fill analysis:
Virgin LL22FE++:
First time oil analysis on a new 2025 Sentra SV 2.0 DGI. Mostly short hop city driving. Oil changed with Valvoline Advanced 0w20 and a Nissan 15208-65FOE Oil Filter.
Was curious about results on this unit and decided to run a sample. Lots of chatter on the Net about RTV issues and break-in metals. Cut the filter open and saw nothing to be alarmed about. I'm not certain about 0W20 in a high rpm motor but that's another discussion. The oil change consisted of Valvoline EP 0W20 and a Subaru 15208AA170 (Japan). Break-in was kept below 4,000 RPM per owners manual.
You say factory fill for BMW, Nissan, Subaru, and Toyota is "different" from "regular oil", but you make no mention of how it's different? In what way?
I'm closing in on 110,000 miles on my hexhead. Here is my last UOI in case you are interested.
Apologies, I thought there was more baseline knowledge based on your experience. Moly content is "off the charts" so to speak. I don't know of a standard oil one can buy at the store or that would be considered manufacturers buying the cheapest thing out there that has the moly numbers in each of those UOA's specified as factory fills.
Sounds like Moly assembly lube paste, as applied to cranks, rods, cams, etc, during assembly.
Hey thanks for that thought. If that is the case, I stand corrected. And appreciate your take on it from being in the industry. As a side benefit then assembly lube becomes moly that helps with breaking in the rest of the engine once it's circulating with the oil . Actually might be kind of Genius. Keeps cost down on oil, and full circle to what you said.
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What oils did you use?
Castrol GTX 20w-50.
It will be interesting to compare the GTX vs any 20W-50 motorcycle oil, especially the Mobil 1 V-Twin.
Do you have any other UOA from the same motorcycle?
This engine is a dry clutch, they will get good life out of a conventional oil such as Castrol 20w50. It's a modern engine. Go 3000-4000 miles and take a sample but don't change it. Once the sample analysis gets back, you probably haven't ridden it that much more relatively speaking. Decide at that point if the oil needs changing based on viscosity breakdown and/or TBN (which will help determine contamination form the air/oil cooled lump). IMO, better to have fresh conventional oil every 3000-4000 miles versus stretching out synthetic to 6000 miles if contamination dictates. The lower TBN caused by contamination is going to be very similar with conventional oil or synthetic oil. The by-products of combustion won't change just because it's one oil type or another.
With respect to BMW recommending (from my reading) 15w50 or choosing 20w50, it's not worth dissecting the difference in my opinion.
As an aside, my old '80s air-cooled UJM's have 2,500 Mi oil change intervals. They recommend 20w40, so 20w50 fills the bill. The blow-by, oil contamination and hot engine temps dirty the oil and break it down more quickly. Synthetic oil is just more money as you really can't extend the oil change interval, because of the contamination element alone. Conventional 20w50 goes in all of them and they live a very happy life.
With respect to BMW recommending (from my reading) 15w50 or choosing 20w50, it's not worth dissecting the difference in my opinion.
As an aside, my old '80s air-cooled UJM's have 2,500 Mi oil change intervals. They recommend 20w40, so 20w50 fills the bill. The blow-by, oil contamination and hot engine temps dirty the oil and break it down more quickly. Synthetic oil is just more money as you really can't extend the oil change interval, because of the contamination element alone. Conventional 20w50 goes in all of them and they live a very happy life.
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What's interesting is I also ride a '22 Multistrada V4 Pikes Peak, and it comes with a wet clutch. Ducati actually markets a dry clutch as a performance accessory, but it's $4k+ investment in parts and labor:
https://configurator.ducati.com/bik...da-v4-pikes-peak/29434427?cid=S57P730NZOYSGTQ
I don't track my Pikes Peak, so the wet clutch is more than adequate. Ducati calls for Shell Advanced 15W-50 - I'm using Motorex 15W-50 in its crankcase right now.
As for the BMW, after almost 600 miles of riding, I don't have any issues with the R12 NineT's dry clutch. The gearset is a little clunky during engagement, but it's just a characteristic of this setup and the shaft final drive. The dealer will replace the oil and filter during this week's service, with the BMW-spec'd 15W-50 and an OEM oil filter.
Hermann
Site Donor 2023
Had the first service done on my new Beemer. They also changed the final drive oil.
Welp, earlier this week, I went on a 30 mile ride to eclipse the 600-mile mark, and pulled into the garage with 625 miles on the odometer. Set it on the side stand, and went inside for some dinner. Not quite an hour later I came back out to the garage, and I notice an oil puddle the size of a US silver dollar under the bike. As I checked further, the back of the engine crankcase was wet, and the exhaust box underneath the transmission/final drive was lightly coated with oil residue, which I did smell some oil vapor during the ride.
The empty threaded bosses on the oil pan showed signs of oil, too.
This past Thursday I took the bike in for its service and to inspect for the source of the oil leak. Unfortunately, it was diagnosed as a Rear Main Seal (RMS) leak<!> Unreal. Parts were ordered on Friday, and they are available. The engine will need to be separated from the transmission and then removed to have RMS replaced.
It appears this isn't an isolated incident. An Australian owner of a '25 R12S had a similar issue during break-in, however, through discussions with BMW Warranty, he's getting another brand new '25 R12S to replace the existing one!
https://www.ninetowners.com/threads/full-engine-replaced-under-warranty-on-my-r12s.157509/?post_id=1216012&nested_view=1&sortby=oldest#post-1216012
I'll likely have a conversation with BMW Warranty this upcoming week - don't know if they handle US customers any different, so we'll see. Worst case - I have an estimated 1 1/2 to 2-week wait until the repairs are complete, based on getting the parts, freeing up a tech to do the repair, and the repair itself, along with a few other things that I've asked them to correct (i.e., front wheel shimmy @ 45 mph and up).
The empty threaded bosses on the oil pan showed signs of oil, too.
This past Thursday I took the bike in for its service and to inspect for the source of the oil leak. Unfortunately, it was diagnosed as a Rear Main Seal (RMS) leak<!> Unreal. Parts were ordered on Friday, and they are available. The engine will need to be separated from the transmission and then removed to have RMS replaced.
It appears this isn't an isolated incident. An Australian owner of a '25 R12S had a similar issue during break-in, however, through discussions with BMW Warranty, he's getting another brand new '25 R12S to replace the existing one!
https://www.ninetowners.com/threads/full-engine-replaced-under-warranty-on-my-r12s.157509/?post_id=1216012&nested_view=1&sortby=oldest#post-1216012
I'll likely have a conversation with BMW Warranty this upcoming week - don't know if they handle US customers any different, so we'll see. Worst case - I have an estimated 1 1/2 to 2-week wait until the repairs are complete, based on getting the parts, freeing up a tech to do the repair, and the repair itself, along with a few other things that I've asked them to correct (i.e., front wheel shimmy @ 45 mph and up).
Hermann
Site Donor 2023
Sorry you are having issues. I will keep a closer eye on mine. Thanks for sharing.
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