2017 Honda Accord oil questions

[Balrog006]

Originally Posted By: mightymousetech


Yes, I have the facts, and have posted them here several times. I am a dealer tech, every couple years we get another service bulletin from Engineering stating that doing the first oil change early can damage the engine, and we are NOT to change the factory fill early. The factory fill oil is not the issue, it is the high moly assembly lube used they want retained in the oil. Doing the first oil change early can cause hot spots to form in the engine.


+1,000,000,000,000,000

 

[Danh]

You'll hear many opinions and here's another.

The K24W engine in your Accord is not really "easy on oil" as it seems to be a chronic fuel diluter. Maybe this doesn't matter but it is outside the norm, even for DI engines.

I own two K24Ws and won't run either past 5,000 miles on an OCI because of fuel dilution. Even shorter in winter as the crankcase level rises.

The reason Honda recommends leaving the ff in for a full OCI is because assembly lubes leave a lot of molybdenum in the oil and Honda seems to believe this protects the cylinder walls from developing hot spots during break-in. Hot spots can leave a glaze on cylinder walls, forever compromising how well they seal.

Most folks here believe break-in is over in the first 2,000 miles. Maybe Hondas are different or Honda is really cautious.

Here's an alternative for you:

Run the ff to maybe 50-60% oil life remaining.
If you buy into Honda's molybdenum logic, replace the ff with Mazda 0w-20 with molybdenum, which provides a similar moly level as the Honda ff.
After the Mazda fill use whatever 0w-20 you wish, but given the fuel dilution I'd look for one a the high end of the 20-weight viscosity range (e.g. Mobil1, Castrol).

Or do what most Honda owners do and just follow the MM. We probably over-think this stuff.

 

[PimTac]

I was under the impression that the Honda FF for US domestic production is not the same as the original Japanese FF made by Idemitsu. Is it Mobil that makes the FF for US production?

All or most manufacturers use assembly lube with moly. It's not just Honda.

 

[Coprolite]

I would listen to Honda's published opinion over any random person on an internet forum. If you like to change oil early and often, you can start doing it after the FF.

Others have posted what is done for other makes and models. Formula one engines need an oil change after 300* miles or each use. That observation is just as applicable.

 

[dorcheat]

Quote:
My questions: 1. Should I keep the break in oil in the engine for 5000 miles? 2. Should I use the Honda semi synthetic for the first two changes? 3. Is Peak synthetic acceptable? I have been using Peak synthetic or Napa synthetic in my 2003 Accord 2.4 (183,500 miles) and in my 2007 Accord 3.0 v-6 (116,000 miles) for many years and everything is AOK. I look forward to your feedback. Thank you!


Congratulations on your purchase. Your Accord will give you many years of fine service with very likely little or no major repair work. I love my Accord 6-6 as well (V6 with six speed manual).

Answers to your questions:

1. Absolutely keep the factory fill in the engine for 5000 miles or even until the Maintenance Minder (MM) "wrench" appears at about 6000 to 8000 miles, depending upon your driving situation, i.e. long trips versus short trips. The MM wrench will glow at 15% remaining oil life.

2. Use the Honda 0W-20 semi synthetic oil with confidence. Also the Honda A01 filter is a fine choice and better constructed than the Honda A02 filter. If you desire, you can also use the Honda Ultimate Full Synthetic Motor Oil as well for about an additional dollar for quart.

3. Peak Synthetic 0W-20 should be just fine. If you want, you can also use the Honda oils until the powertrain warranty expires at 60,000 miles or 5 years.

Enjoy your Accord!

 

[Danh]

Originally Posted By: PimTac
I was under the impression that the Honda FF for US domestic production is not the same as the original Japanese FF made by Idemitsu. Is it Mobil that makes the FF for US production?

All or most manufacturers use assembly lube with moly. It's not just Honda.


There are lots of UOAs of factory fills from a variety of manufacturers posted here. Finding molybdenum in a non-Honda ff UOA is rare.

I believe ConocoPhillips makes Honda motor oil for the US market.

 

[bigt61]

Follow the OLM - don't change the FF early. Use the Honda semi synthetic for the 1st two changes - this will allow proper ring seal. After that, switch to the full synthetic of your choice. Follow the OLM and keep it topped off - that's it.

 

[RTexasF]

Originally Posted By: parshisa
Please make sure you have facts to back up your statements. There's absolutely nothing special about Honda Factory Fill oil. It has very average additive package with no nothing special to it. With that being said, there's 0 need to keep that oil for 8K miles. OP - feel free to change the oil whenever you want. Use good synthetics and filter and enjoy the car.


Written by someone that has never even looked a a Honda owner's manual. You could not be more wrong.

 

[Danh]

Originally Posted By: RTexasF
Originally Posted By: parshisa
Please make sure you have facts to back up your statements. There's absolutely nothing special about Honda Factory Fill oil. It has very average additive package with no nothing special to it. With that being said, there's 0 need to keep that oil for 8K miles. OP - feel free to change the oil whenever you want. Use good synthetics and filter and enjoy the car.


Written by someone that has never even looked a a Honda owner's manual. You could not be more wrong.


Current Honda manuals are silent on any special qualities of the factory fill. They simply say "follow the Maintenance Minder" and never suggest an early oil change could be harmful. And dealers are generally useless on this topic. One would think if it were really important Honda would be more direct.

 

[igs]

Originally Posted By: mightymousetech
Originally Posted By: parshisa
Please make sure you have facts to back up your statements. There's absolutely nothing special about Honda Factory Fill oil. It has very average additive package with no nothing special to it. With that being said, there's 0 need to keep that oil for 8K miles. OP - feel free to change the oil whenever you want. Use good synthetics and filter and enjoy the car.




Yes, I have the facts, and have posted them here several times. I am a dealer tech (20 years with Acura/Honda) every couple years we get another service bulletin from Engineering stating that doing the first oil change early can damage the engine, and we are NOT to change the factory fill early. The factory fill oil is not the issue, it is the high moly assembly lube used they want retained in the oil. Doing the first oil change early can cause hot spots to form in the engine.


Assembly lube prevents hot spots on INITIAL STARTUP. Once oil starts circulating its purpose is done.

 

[parshisa]

My current Civic Hatchback manual has been carefully read and I haven't found a word about initial factory filled oil. I HAD to do oil first oil change at 4700miles, MM at that time was reading 70% life. The reason I HAD to change the oil was because it was getting diluted with fuel and crankcase level was rising. UAO showed severe decrease in viscosity (below 6) as well as decrease in flash point. Factory filled oil SHEARED and DILUTED badly. So, If I was to follow MM and let the oil go down to 15% oil, how would you think it would look? would that moly from the build lube do a good job in keeping internal parts well lubricated? I don't think so. Common sense is the key here. Look at your oil regularly, do the drop test from time to time, watch the crankcase level and use your brain. And you should be fine.

 

[Danh]

Originally Posted By: parshisa
My current Civic Hatchback manual has been carefully read and I haven't found a word about initial factory filled oil. I HAD to do oil first oil change at 4700miles, MM at that time was reading 70% life. The reason I HAD to change the oil was because it was getting diluted with fuel and crankcase level was rising. UAO showed severe decrease in viscosity (below 6) as well as decrease in flash point. Factory filled oil SHEARED and DILUTED badly. So, If I was to follow MM and let the oil go down to 15% oil, how would you think it would look? would that moly from the build lube do a good job in keeping internal parts well lubricated? I don't think so. Common sense is the key here. Look at your oil regularly, do the drop test from time to time, watch the crankcase level and use your brain. And you should be fine.


Agree there's an inherent contradiction with Honda's ff OCI recommendation with its DI engine fuel dilution problem. Unless...we've all contributed to the fuel dilution problem by not running the ff long enough and winding up with poor sealing. Nobody ever knew breaking-in a Honda could be so complicated.

 

[mightymousetech]

Originally Posted By: parshisa
My current Civic Hatchback manual has been carefully read and I haven't found a word about initial factory filled oil. I HAD to do oil first oil change at 4700miles, MM at that time was reading 70% life. The reason I HAD to change the oil was because it was getting diluted with fuel and crankcase level was rising. UAO showed severe decrease in viscosity (below 6) as well as decrease in flash point. Factory filled oil SHEARED and DILUTED badly. So, If I was to follow MM and let the oil go down to 15% oil, how would you think it would look? would that moly from the build lube do a good job in keeping internal parts well lubricated? I don't think so. Common sense is the key here. Look at your oil regularly, do the drop test from time to time, watch the crankcase level and use your brain. And you should be fine.


Do you do a lot of short trips?

 

[parshisa]

95% highway at 75mph. I have to confess though that I might have been lugging the car. Having the oil changed to quality POA based synthetic and adjusted driving habits now (revving up in each gear up to 3-3.5K) almost 3K after the change no change to the oil on the dipstick. Hopefully trend will continue.

 

[parshisa]

I don't buy the idea of 10K miles to have o-rings seated and all surfaces mated. All the break in occurs within first 30-50miles driven. Car manufacturers don't make you change the oil early in the oil life because it will increase ownership cost and given how tight the market is and competition - nobody wants to do that.

 

[fdcg27]

You just spent twenty large for a new car, maybe more if you had to pay a premium to get a stick.
Why cheap out on oil?
M1 0W-20 in EP or AFE flavors would be a good choice and will cost but a couple of bucks more.
If you want to try a really good driving Accord, a gen seven, like your '03 or a gen six, like the '99 we bought new would be a real revelation. A gen eight or nine car is not in the same league.
The last couple of generations are really large cars.
I drove a '17 Fusion 2.5 a couple of days ago and noticed how small it was in and out as compared to our '12 Accord 2.4. It was also slower.

 

[Coprolite]

Has anyone compared the current Civic measurements with the smaller accord mentioned above? I bet today's Civic is a much better take on yesteryear's Accord.

 

[SilverFusion2010]

Drive the fusion with the 2.0 ecoboost. The 2.5 is a serviceable and boring motor. The ecoboost has gobs of low end and makes the same 240HP my 3.0 v6 does

 

[fdcg27]

So the turbo is faster?
No surprise there.
One does wonder about long term durability, though.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
You just spent twenty large for a new car, maybe more if you had to pay a premium to get a stick.
Why cheap out on oil?


^^This

Oil is cheap,cars are not. You can buy the best of the best for almost nothing at Walmart via 5 quart jugs.