2010 Motor Trend Car of the Year.

[CROWNVIC4LIFE]

Originally Posted By: rudolphna
http://www.mercuryvehicles.com/grandmarquis/


Your are right and I am wrong...Thanks for the link.

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: labman
10 years ago it was a vastly under reported story that most of the CD staff was on the Japanese payrolls as ''consultants''.

Can you imagine the play on CNN if it had been GM?


Car and Driver staff had to be on the Japanese and Import car payroll, they were so ridiculously biased. I wouldn't be surprised if other publications were too. I'd go so far to say they played a big part in recking the Domestic auto industry. Motor Trend seemed to be the least "partisan" so it doesn't appear they were getting kickbacks from anyone. That was my point to Benjamming.

 

[benjamming]

mechanicx,

My original point was simple. You are running with it when there is nothing to run with. I was saying that this award isn't really an award. This award is a trophy that is sold to the highest bidder. It is a fundraising event. Therefore, we shouldn't put much stock or read too much or get too giddy about whoever gets this trophy every year. That's all. It has nothing to do with import vs. domestic bias, other magazines, or anything like that.

Do I have proof. Nope, their accounting folks have not answered my requests for me to see their books. Therefore, I should have said "I believe" continuously. No doubt about it. However, I also thought this 'accusation' was pretty common knowledge? Maybe not. It was among us (my colleagues) when I worked in the automotive industry.

 

[rjundi]

The primary criteria of MT car of the year is enough of a full brand new design. This narrows the candidates considerably.So some years you get odd winners but nothing else is released by other makers.

The new designed winner can be loser compared to its closest competitor with a one year old design. For example the questionable Nissan Titan won it for Truck of the Year however nothing was released amongst competition so they win.

 

[hone eagle]

Originally Posted By: rjundi
The primary criteria of MT car of the year is enough of a full brand new design. This narrows the candidates considerably.So some years you get odd winners but nothing else is released by other makers.

The new designed winner can be loser compared to its closest competitor with a one year old design. For example the questionable Nissan Titan won it for Truck of the Year however nothing was released amongst competition so they win.


+1

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: benjamming
mechanicx,

My original point was simple. You are running with it when there is nothing to run with. I was saying that this award isn't really an award. This award is a trophy that is sold to the highest bidder. It is a fundraising event. Therefore, we shouldn't put much stock or read too much or get too giddy about whoever gets this trophy every year. That's all. It has nothing to do with import vs. domestic bias, other magazines, or anything like that.

Do I have proof. Nope, their accounting folks have not answered my requests for me to see their books. Therefore, I should have said "I believe" continuously. No doubt about it. However, I also thought this 'accusation' was pretty common knowledge? Maybe not. It was among us (my colleagues) when I worked in the automotive industry.


I got that the first time, but can't you see you are casting (unfounded) aspersions on MT and it's award, the Fusion by not having to actually fairly win the award on its merits, and Ford for paying off MT? Plus you have no proof of your accusation, so where does it come from? One can only assume it comes from some combination of your doubts about MT, the Fusion, and Ford. There's no other conclusion that can be drawn.

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: rjundi
The primary criteria of MT car of the year is enough of a full brand new design. This narrows the candidates considerably.So some years you get odd winners but nothing else is released by other makers.

The new designed winner can be loser compared to its closest competitor with a one year old design. For example the questionable Nissan Titan won it for Truck of the Year however nothing was released amongst competition so they win.



Exactly. It doesn't mean MT doesn't know what they're saying, or that they are on the take and just giving the award to whoever is the highest bidder regardless of the new car merits.

 

[cos]

A little off topic but getting back to the Mustang and other pony cars being to heavy - yes, they, like almost all cars have gained weight as they've become safer.

According to C&D's Nov '09 issue the BMW 335i weighs in at 3,620 lbs while the Audi S4 Quattro tips the scales at 4,000 lbs. Are these two cars too heavy?

 

[97tbird]

They are; but they have enough power (around 310 hp) and torque (also about 300 lb-ft) to move them effectively.

 

[Whimsey]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
OMG! Tempo/Topaz. Had one, bad memories for sure.

Frankly I don't pay any attention to M/T any more. Their COY is absolutely meaningless.


Got my father a used 1987 Topaz in 1988. It ran great, no problems, next to no maintanence given. He gave it to his grandson who was hit in it in 2004, totally it. He was ok.
The other driver ran through a red light, not trying to beat the yellow, but just blew through the red. Until it was totaled it ran great, no problems.

Whimsey

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: 97tbird
They are; but they have enough power (around 310 hp) and torque (also about 300 lb-ft) to move them effectively.


So does the Mustang.............

 

[mechanicx]

Well the 80's Tempo held up better than the 80's escort, but some didn't have the clear coat ordered and they rusted quick. You also had the failure prone TFI ignition module, trouble-some ford starter relay, the fuel cutoff inertia sensor easily tripped, dumb automatic seatbelts, etc. Some of them would weat out tie-rods. The 80's escorts and Tempos were just usually low-performance, cheaply made, and all looked the same. you might get 150K relatively trouble free miles out of a Tempo, but they were just junky and clunky IMO.

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: 97tbird
They are; but they have enough power (around 310 hp) and torque (also about 300 lb-ft) to move them effectively.


The real problem with high weight on a sports car isn't just the acceleration but how nimble it is, handling and braking.

 

[benjamming]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Originally Posted By: benjamming
mechanicx,

My original point was simple. You are running with it when there is nothing to run with. I was saying that this award isn't really an award. This award is a trophy that is sold to the highest bidder. It is a fundraising event. Therefore, we shouldn't put much stock or read too much or get too giddy about whoever gets this trophy every year. That's all. It has nothing to do with import vs. domestic bias, other magazines, or anything like that.

Do I have proof. Nope, their accounting folks have not answered my requests for me to see their books. Therefore, I should have said "I believe" continuously. No doubt about it. However, I also thought this 'accusation' was pretty common knowledge? Maybe not. It was among us (my colleagues) when I worked in the automotive industry.


I got that the first time, but can't you see you are casting (unfounded) aspersions on MT and it's award, the Fusion by not having to actually fairly win the award on its merits, and Ford for paying off MT? Plus you have no proof of your accusation, so where does it come from? One can only assume it comes from some combination of your doubts about MT, the Fusion, and Ford. There's no other conclusion that can be drawn.


MT's "award" is like everyone who works on a project getting an award. It's really more of a thank you for participating certificate.

You don't have to draw conclusions or assume where my accusation came from. I told you where I drew it from (did you read the posts above?)- from my time working in the auto industry where it was common knowledge that this tropy was a rebate on funds invested into MT.

BTW, did you also miss me stating above that I cast this same thing upon the Mercedes M series when I was working for them?

 

[robbobster]

Originally Posted By: benjamming


MT's "award" is like everyone who works on a project getting an award. It's really more of a thank you for participating certificate.

You don't have to draw conclusions or assume where my accusation came from. I told you where I drew it from (did you read the posts above?)- from my time working in the auto industry where it was common knowledge that this tropy was a rebate on funds invested into MT.

BTW, did you also miss me stating above that I cast this same thing upon the Mercedes M series when I was working for them?


Working at an ad agency for a major MFR, I can vouch that what you're stating is factual...whether or not anyone thinks I'm credible is another matter entirely.

Motor Trend has a history of blatantly altering point categories to tip COTY wins to one MFR or another. But these days, with readership and ad pages dwindling, all the mags do it equally.

Here's some links...not a smoking gun, but certainly something to think about. If nothing else, it shows that auto magazines may not be as unbiased as they'd like you to believe:
MT COTY
Car and Driver photoshop scandal
CAmaro vs. Genesis bias
New Detroit bias
Road Test Flow Chart - joke

 

[DeeAgeaux]

Originally Posted By: robbobster
Originally Posted By: benjamming


MT's "award" is like everyone who works on a project getting an award. It's really more of a thank you for participating certificate.

You don't have to draw conclusions or assume where my accusation came from. I told you where I drew it from (did you read the posts above?)- from my time working in the auto industry where it was common knowledge that this tropy was a rebate on funds invested into MT.

BTW, did you also miss me stating above that I cast this same thing upon the Mercedes M series when I was working for them?


Working at an ad agency for a major MFR, I can vouch that what you're stating is factual...whether or not anyone thinks I'm credible is another matter entirely.

Motor Trend has a history of blatantly altering point categories to tip COTY wins to one MFR or another. But these days, with readership and ad pages dwindling, all the mags do it equally.

Here's some links...not a smoking gun, but certainly something to think about. If nothing else, it shows that auto magazines may not be as unbiased as they'd like you to believe:
MT COTY
Car and Driver photoshop scandal
CAmaro vs. Genesis bias
New Detroit bias
Road Test Flow Chart - joke


In a nut shell, don't trust car magazines. Trust our website that also gets advertising.

 

[L_Sludger]

I rented a Fusion last week. The quality of the interior is better than a 2010 Hyundai Sonata. But I was not pleased with the quality or feel of the center console latch - it felt as flimsy as milk jug plastic. Motor was okay. Trans was okay. Body was okay. Definitely better than any competing GM product, and I'd take one in a heartbeat over the Sonata.

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: DeeAgeaux
Originally Posted By: robbobster
Originally Posted By: benjamming


MT's "award" is like everyone who works on a project getting an award. It's really more of a thank you for participating certificate.

You don't have to draw conclusions or assume where my accusation came from. I told you where I drew it from (did you read the posts above?)- from my time working in the auto industry where it was common knowledge that this tropy was a rebate on funds invested into MT.

BTW, did you also miss me stating above that I cast this same thing upon the Mercedes M series when I was working for them?


Working at an ad agency for a major MFR, I can vouch that what you're stating is factual...whether or not anyone thinks I'm credible is another matter entirely.

Motor Trend has a history of blatantly altering point categories to tip COTY wins to one MFR or another. But these days, with readership and ad pages dwindling, all the mags do it equally.

Here's some links...not a smoking gun, but certainly something to think about. If nothing else, it shows that auto magazines may not be as unbiased as they'd like you to believe:
MT COTY
Car and Driver photoshop scandal
CAmaro vs. Genesis bias
New Detroit bias
Road Test Flow Chart - joke


In a nut shell, don't trust car magazines. Trust our website that also gets advertising.



No, in a nut shell, don't trust anybody else's opinion but your own. Go, test drive the cars you are considering to buy, heck, rent one if you are still on the fence, examine all cars and form your own opinion. I like visiting forums, like this one, or model specific ones and read on some of the problems, likes and dislikes, but at the end it's just an opinion of some other person and you have to form your own, how you do it is up to you and you alone.

If someone goes and buys a car just because it was named "A car of the year" by some magazine without test driving the car and it's competition, then they are like 90% of the sheep that do what TV tells them to, and have no opinion of their own in the first place, all they are capable of is repeating someone else's opinions and proclaiming them their own.