2010 Brute Force--1st OC (gas in oil?)

[CarbonSteel]

Gang,

[I posted this on the Kawieriders forum as well, but thought I would see if anyone had thoughts/experiences here]

I just managed to put the obligatory 10 hours (45 miles) on my Brute and so I am in the midst of changing all of the fluids. I plan to send the engine oil to Blackstone for a UOA--I am worried about fuel dilution and shearing. This will also set a baseline and I will likely do every 3rd OC just to keep up with any changes.

This is a 2010 that was not sold until February of 2011 so I do not have any clues as to how long the factory oil has been in the engine. During the 10 hour break-in I did not over-rev the engine or go past the half throttle mark--however, it was not babied; it saw mixed throttle action throughout the 10 hour period.

The engine oil has a heavy gasoline smell and is quite thin. I have noted a heavy gasoline smell when I first start it and after warm up it goes away. However, on my last outing (which was a 3-4 ride) I began to smell gas while riding.

Is this normal for the Brute Force? Do I have a fuel system problem? Do you guys also have a gas smell to the oil when you change it? I am going back with a Kawasaki oil filter and Kawasaki 10w-40 oil for this oil change, but I plan to change to Rotella (T or T6) and a Purolator PL14610 filter on the next OC (anyone else running this combination?).

Please give me your thoughts about any or all of this. Thanks in advance.

 

[JimPghPA]

Just a guess, but it could be missing rings on piston. That would allow gas into oil. It would not be the first time a new engine had the rings left off when it was made.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: JimPghPA
Just a guess, but it could be missing rings on piston. That would allow gas into oil. It would not be the first time a new engine had the rings left off when it was made.

I will wait for UOA to know for sure about the percentage of gas in the oil, but based upon the power this bike has, I would be surprised if there was a ring missing, but as you say...you never know.

 

[Mike_dup1]

Just for comparison I have a 2010 John Deere X728SE lawn tractor with a 745cc (27HP) Kawasaki V-Twin. In the first 25 hrs there is no fuel dilution. The oil came out like new. I switched it to AMSOIL HDD 5W-30 (recommended viscosity by JD)

Don't know about the ATV engines but the one in my JD has a label on the engine with the date of manf., mine was made Mar of 2010. I bought the tractor in Nov of 2010.

I will say this, a few die hard tractor experts told me not to buy one with a Kawasaki engine, bad reputation I was told. Weather true or not, I still bought it and its been fine. From 1 hr I was pushing it hard blowing snow all winter, has 3 yr warranty.

I would say you got a fuel system problem. Leaking injector or ?
My engine spec's
ENGINE
Engine Type EFI, OHV, oil filter
Engine Make Kawasaki
Cylinders V-twin, cast-iron liners
Horsepower 27 hp (20.1 kW)
Displacement 45.5 ci (745 cc)
Cooling Liquid

 

[Jjones]

I would just change the oil and keep a close eye on it.Maybe it was a fluke?DO you have the 750 or the 650i?The 650 is still carbureted.I have a 2007 650i and use rotella t6 and napa gold 1365.

Yes,the power of these engines is unreal.The 650i is much closer to the power of the 750 than most people realize.If you get off of one then onto the other you can not tell a difference.I think you would notice if you were missing a ring and I believe gas can get past the rings anyway.

The Kawasaki 750 ATV v-twin is over 50hp.

 

[dtt004]

Hi.

I don't think you should be worried about it just yet. It is good that you have NOT been babying the engine when new, and changing the oil early. During this time, you want to 1.) seat the rings and 2.) remove all manufacturing and break in contaminants. You are doing both.

It smells like gas in the morning because it is cold. The engine's fuel injection increases the fuel in the air-fuel ratio to allow for maximum starting power and the quickest way to reach operating temperatures where the catalyst operates best. It goes away...that's a good sign.

To address the oil's gas smell, that's definitely due to the piston rings. I wouldn't be worried about it. Also, all oil is not discernible in terms of thickness. A 5W-10W-15W-20W are are really similar. I can only differentiate between a 0W and 20W, and even then it's tough. 20W feels a bit stickier that's about it. Only when the engine is at operating temperature, will the viscosity change and the engine will notice the difference.

How long are you riding this vehicle? If you are riding very short intervals, there is no doubt that the engine cannot burn off the extra fuel that makes its way into the oil. Try riding for at least an hour of aggressive driving and record your observations.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: Jjones
I would just change the oil and keep a close eye on it.Maybe it was a fluke?DO you have the 750 or the 650i?The 650 is still carbureted.I have a 2007 650i and use rotella t6 and napa gold 1365.

Yes,the power of these engines is unreal.The 650i is much closer to the power of the 750 than most people realize.If you get off of one then onto the other you can not tell a difference.I think you would notice if you were missing a ring and I believe gas can get past the rings anyway.

The Kawasaki 750 ATV v-twin is over 50hp.

It is the 750i and is definitely injected. It could just the break-in process and I started it long enough to back it off the trailer and it sat for some days before I changed the oil. Perhaps it is from that....fingers crossed. Thanks for the information!

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: dtt004
Also, all oil is not discernible in terms of thickness...

How long are you riding this vehicle?

I added the new oil after I posted and it is just as thin as what came out so it may be that I do not have a problem as yet. I used Kawasaki 10w-40 which is the same as the factory fill. I must admit the Rotella seems to be quite a bit thicker (I have some ready for the next change).

The gas smell in the oil could be from the 2 minute run to back it off the trailer and then it sit until I changed the oil today. When I originally picked it up from the dealer there were several 3-4 minute runs and then it was ran for about 2-3 hours twice and then the last time was about 4 hours or so. It has only used 2 gallons of gas for 45 miles so I am not overly concerned yet--the power does not indicate there is a major issue. I am a big guy and it pulls me around like there is no tomorrow.

 

[JimPghPA]

BTW, if you take the piston out to check it, and all of the rings are there, also check that the gap in the rings is NOT lined up ring to ring. For pistons that do not have a pin to maintain the ring gap in a specific spot, it is important that the ring gaps be as far apart from each other as possible. If they are lined up too much blow-by will get past them by way of the ring gaps.

Years ago when Cadillac first went to robot made engines they had a big problem with too much blow-by. They had to do a recall, and the fix was to rotate the rings so they were NOT lined up.

 

[Jjones]

Originally Posted By: JimPghPA
BTW, if you take the piston out to check it, and all of the rings are there, also check that the gap in the rings is NOT lined up ring to ring. For pistons that do not have a pin to maintain the ring gap in a specific spot, it is important that the ring gaps be as far apart from each other as possible. If they are lined up too much blow-by will get past them by way of the ring gaps.

Years ago when Cadillac first went to robot made engines they had a big problem with too much blow-by. They had to do a recall, and the fix was to rotate the rings so they were NOT lined up.


Piston rings rotate as the piston moves up and down.

 

[davedude]

Originally Posted By: JimPghPA
Just a guess, but it could be missing rings on piston. That would allow gas into oil. It would not be the first time a new engine had the rings left off when it was made.
If the rings are missing there would be no compression

 

[Mr_Joe]

I would just do your 1st change & keep an eye on it after that. It sounds like your already into that. I'd also give it a chance with some longer rides,besides the few minute warm-ups or short trips.

In that TX heat something like a 15w-50 or so may be the ticket. I have the Rotella 15w-40 standing by for my next bike oil change. If the problem continues I'd ride it back to the shop for a check under warranty.

 

[boraticus]

Is there a chance that the fuel is getting into the oil when the machine isn't running? Possibly seeping past the efi, down the the throttle bodies into the cylinders?

Regarding the above comments about Kawasaki utility engines being less than desirable, I say, B.$. Kawasaki OPE engines are some of the finest made. I own a riding mower with a Kawasaki FV430 engine. I like better than my other rider with the a Honda GX V twin.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: boraticus
Is there a chance that the fuel is getting into the oil when the machine isn't running? Possibly seeping past the efi, down the the throttle bodies into the cylinders?

Regarding the above comments about Kawasaki utility engines being less than desirable, I say, B.$. Kawasaki OPE engines are some of the finest made. I own a riding mower with a Kawasaki FV430 engine. I like better than my other rider with the a Honda GX V twin.

It seems to have settled down; I rode it for 4 hours straight (after the OC) and I have not smelled gasoline again. I have sent the oil to Blackstone for analysis and should have the UOA any day now and will post it when I receive it.

Ditto on the Kawasaki engines; the Kawie Rider forum has plenty of experiences with the engines and more often than not the experiences are very positive.

On the power side, my BF is very nimble with me on it and I am not a lightweight