2009 Subaru Forester ATF debris with pic
- Thread starter Phishin
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Originally Posted By: Wheel
There is no external factory filter on the 09.
Is it possible there isn't one in the Legacy, but the Forester still has it in 2009?
Rockauto shows the pan and spin on filter available for the '09 Forester.
Edit: Rockauto also shows both filters for '09 Legacy as well.
There is no external factory filter on the 09.
Is it possible there isn't one in the Legacy, but the Forester still has it in 2009?
Rockauto shows the pan and spin on filter available for the '09 Forester.
Edit: Rockauto also shows both filters for '09 Legacy as well.
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Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
Source?
Search the SAE paper archives. The majority of wear material (and wear causing material) is iron-based. The bypass filter most likely has a 50% limit of around 2-4 micron, the magnet (with an open pole to the fluid) will have no such limit.
Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
Prove to me that more magnets trap more material than the OEM equipment and a proper tranny fluid change routine.
It's not much different than increasing filtration area of a typical media-filter. As area increases you can hold more material, but in the pan you also affect more of the fluid. Since the OEM magnet is very limited in size and is a bit on the weak-side, adding to that side of the equation is very beneficial. Again, the magnets will also be pulling iron out of the fluid 24hrs-a-day whereas the filters are only effective while the engine is running.
Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
From a transmission longevity standpoint, more magnets don't matter, better fluid change regiments, changing the filer and the occasional drop the the pan is all that is needed.
It does if the fluid stays cleaner longer. In fact, if you can keep your ISO cleanliness levels low enough you may never really need to change the fluid again.
Again, I'm not saying you need to drop the pan, clean it (and the OEM magnet) and go whole-hog on a killer magnet field. Installing a Magnefine will give you much of the same benefit (minus the 24hr action) in an easy-to-apply package.
Source?
Search the SAE paper archives. The majority of wear material (and wear causing material) is iron-based. The bypass filter most likely has a 50% limit of around 2-4 micron, the magnet (with an open pole to the fluid) will have no such limit.
Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
Prove to me that more magnets trap more material than the OEM equipment and a proper tranny fluid change routine.
It's not much different than increasing filtration area of a typical media-filter. As area increases you can hold more material, but in the pan you also affect more of the fluid. Since the OEM magnet is very limited in size and is a bit on the weak-side, adding to that side of the equation is very beneficial. Again, the magnets will also be pulling iron out of the fluid 24hrs-a-day whereas the filters are only effective while the engine is running.
Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
From a transmission longevity standpoint, more magnets don't matter, better fluid change regiments, changing the filer and the occasional drop the the pan is all that is needed.
It does if the fluid stays cleaner longer. In fact, if you can keep your ISO cleanliness levels low enough you may never really need to change the fluid again.
Again, I'm not saying you need to drop the pan, clean it (and the OEM magnet) and go whole-hog on a killer magnet field. Installing a Magnefine will give you much of the same benefit (minus the 24hr action) in an easy-to-apply package.
Originally Posted By: Phishin
Thanks you two for destroying my thread about Subaru ATF into a worthless debate about magnets.
It's not my choice. I'm just defending an easy-to-understand concept.
Thanks you two for destroying my thread about Subaru ATF into a worthless debate about magnets.
It's not my choice. I'm just defending an easy-to-understand concept.
Sorry phishin'. It is the way of the "interwebz". Someone says wear tin-foil hats, the other says don't worry about it. It is the way of the world.
martinq: Show me where adding dollar-store magnets increases the lifespan OR decreases wear. We know that particles can cause wear... just like cholesterol can lean to heart attacks. I am not questioning the "cause of the problem" I am questioning your solution. Anyone can claim something works "better", few can have data that backs it up.
Oh, and don't worry about access, I have a tier 1 research university library access.
martinq: Show me where adding dollar-store magnets increases the lifespan OR decreases wear. We know that particles can cause wear... just like cholesterol can lean to heart attacks. I am not questioning the "cause of the problem" I am questioning your solution. Anyone can claim something works "better", few can have data that backs it up.
Oh, and don't worry about access, I have a tier 1 research university library access.
The last time the local ACDelco guy came around to give us a free dinner he took a few minutes to explain that the current Subaru ATF normally produces a dark colored sediment during the first week or so of being exposed to air. According to him it is not an indication of a problem and is not a reason to replace the fluid. He brought along a jar of the fluid with some sediment in the bottom that looked not unlike the stuff in your picture.
Edit: I think he gave some sort of explanation as to how the stuff is formed, but I can't remember that. The roast beef was good.
Edit: I think he gave some sort of explanation as to how the stuff is formed, but I can't remember that. The roast beef was good.
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Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
Sorry phishin'. It is the way of the "interwebz". Someone says wear tin-foil hats, the other says don't worry about it. It is the way of the world.
If you think filtration is crazy-talk, then what are you doing here?
If magnets cause such problems for you then maybe you should be rid of them? Every OEM gearbox has at least one magnet in it but not all have filters (full-flow screens, or bypass media). I'm not sure what I could possibly do to convince you that magnets remove the major wear-contributor in a transmission.
Sorry phishin'. It is the way of the "interwebz". Someone says wear tin-foil hats, the other says don't worry about it. It is the way of the world.
If you think filtration is crazy-talk, then what are you doing here?
If magnets cause such problems for you then maybe you should be rid of them? Every OEM gearbox has at least one magnet in it but not all have filters (full-flow screens, or bypass media). I'm not sure what I could possibly do to convince you that magnets remove the major wear-contributor in a transmission.
Originally Posted By: martinq
Originally Posted By: Wheel
There is no external factory filter on the 09.
Ouch, sorry to hear that. I'm guessing it was dropped on the 3rd-gen SH Forester?
No, I believe it was dropped in 2007-2008. There is still an internal one. I know its an old design, but I think it is pretty sturdy. Don't forget to change the front diff fluid too, and it should hold up fine.
Originally Posted By: Wheel
There is no external factory filter on the 09.
Ouch, sorry to hear that. I'm guessing it was dropped on the 3rd-gen SH Forester?
No, I believe it was dropped in 2007-2008. There is still an internal one. I know its an old design, but I think it is pretty sturdy. Don't forget to change the front diff fluid too, and it should hold up fine.
Originally Posted By: Phishin
Like my wife frequently says, "Don't say you're sorry, just don't do it again."
Nice one, I'll try (really) to keep that one handy.
Cheers
Like my wife frequently says, "Don't say you're sorry, just don't do it again."
Nice one, I'll try (really) to keep that one handy.
Cheers
Originally Posted By: Wheel
Don't forget to change the front diff fluid too, and it should hold up fine.
+1
The diffs fluid should be changed early to clear out the wear material and then again at the first scheduled tranny flush (basic break-in pattern). By this time they should be fairly clean and broken-in and will stay cleaner longer. A performance/synthetic 75w90 really does help to reduce wear and improve efficiency.
Motul Gear 300 is fantastic but would also recommend Red Line or Amsoil as premium options.
Don't forget to change the front diff fluid too, and it should hold up fine.
+1
The diffs fluid should be changed early to clear out the wear material and then again at the first scheduled tranny flush (basic break-in pattern). By this time they should be fairly clean and broken-in and will stay cleaner longer. A performance/synthetic 75w90 really does help to reduce wear and improve efficiency.
Motul Gear 300 is fantastic but would also recommend Red Line or Amsoil as premium options.
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