2009 Kawasaki Ninja 250R

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Originally Posted By: boraticus


A liquid cooled engine running in an oil bath or pressurized oil system is in the lap of luxury compared to a two cycle engine.

The Ninja will be just fine with any quality HDEO.


HDEO oils are not tested at high rpm and this is why real racers don't use them, synthetic or not. Considered the fact that the 250R is a revver (hence the 14K+ redline and you need it) how much are you going to save sticking with 2 liters of dino oil? Plus, since the OP is in Alaska I would use synthetic just for the easy of starting.
 
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Nobody's racing so that information means little in the context of this discussion.

Thousands upon thousands or riders use HDEO in many brands of high revving engines.

The fact that both Rotella T dino 15W40 and T6 are JASO rated would lead me to believe that they're more than suitable for any motorcycle being ridden on the street regardless of what kind of rpms are achieved.

I buy oil by the gallon for numerous machines. I'll spend $100.00 per year buying top notch dino oil that's more than suitable for the applications rather than four or five times that amount buying trumped up synthetics.

From my extensive experience, there is absolutely no added value to buy and use synthetic oil when very capable oil is available at a fraction of the cost.

One would have to be riding in some pretty cold temps if a synthetic is required to make starting easier. Even Alaskans know when to switch to four wheels.
 
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Originally Posted By: beanoil
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
If you are planning to take this bike on the highway then you better off with synthetic. You will be operating in its high rev range on the highway.

Oh boy, more hearsay. The Ninja 250 has a 14k rpm redline. Even if you are turning 6k at highway speeds, this is not in it's "high rev range" (what ever that is), but at less than half of it's max rpm, and most likely near the meat of the powerband. Synthetic is NOT necessary unless you have temperature extremes. As said, if you are riding in the Alaska winter, grab the blue bottle. For any reasonable temperature, white bottle is more than adequate. Both oils are going to shear from the shared sump, so a change every 3 or 4 thousand is probably good practice.


You either really bad in math, ride like granny, or don't know jack about the Ninja 250R. The 250R top speed is 110mph close to the redline (14K) so if you do 80mph (75mph speed limit) on the highway you are above 10K. Realistically, if you have ridden a 250R then you would know that at 80mph you are closer to 11K than 10K rpm. Here in Arizona the temperature is north of average and I usually do closer to 90mph on I-10 or I-8 to California. Who in their right mind would buy oil for reasonable temperature, below speed limit, half the rpm range riding conditions?

Tell you what az. You buy what you want for your high speed trips to Cali in the summer heat on a bike kinda small do be doing so. My math is fine, and my 45 years in the saddle and about a half million miles have proven that even before it was popular, before BITOG, heck before Al Gore invented the internets, HDEO's have taken a whole bunch of folks a whole lot of places with a lot less drama than this thread. And I'll stand by what I said. Why? One of my family members was in the Shell bottling plant in Wood River, IL. Suzuki 4 stroke oil way back when was just good 'ol Rotella T. Yeah, Suzi labelled it 10w40, but those bottles were filled at the same time, and interchangably with the Rotella bottles. Did fine in the GSX R's and F's of the day,( the days of air/oil cooled- way hotter than a water pumper) and it will work fine in this application today.
 
Originally Posted By: boraticus
Nobody's racing so that information means little in the context of this discussion.


You tell 'em, B! Racing worries = FUD = Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt.

What does Kawi spec for the 250R? SE-SG Class SAE.

What spec does Rotella T meet?

'nuff said.
 
The point of these forums/discussions is to seek and provide advice. Preferably wise advice.

I have no problem with individuals who want use expensive designer lubricants in their machines. It's their choice and their money.

However, when those individuals recommend the same lubricants to others for applications that do not call for unnecessarily expensive lubricants, it's incumbent upon those of us who know better to offer alternative advice.

Too many times we see race enthusiasts recommending $14.00/liter oil to do a job that $3.00/liter oil has proved over the years will do very well.

Not saying there isn't a place for expensive synthetic oils, but I am saying that place isn't in street ridden machines that will see relatively short duration OCIs.
 
Originally Posted By: boraticus

However, when those individuals recommend the same lubricants to others for applications that do not call for unnecessarily expensive lubricants, it's incumbent upon those of us who know better to offer alternative advice.

Not saying there isn't a place for expensive synthetic oils, but I am saying that place isn't in street ridden machines that will see relatively short duration OCIs.


No where did the OP asked about the cheapest oil nor did he/she said it will be used for a short run to the local 7/11. There is no mention of a short duration OCI either. The bike in question is a high revving sport bike that has been modified. All you care about is saving a few dollars so you can buy steak for dinner. I worry about the OP's bike long term. Oh yeah, we used to own a 2006 Ninja 250 so I do know exactly what it will do and need instead of others that brag about their relatives working for Shell or their 45 years on a Harley or GSXR that are off topic.

I recommend the best to be safe rather than sorry. The bike only requires 2L of oils and you can buy synthetic for less than $10/quart. Buying dino oils you might be able to save enough for one steak. Whoopppee dddooooo!!!!!!
 
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Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Originally Posted By: boraticus

However, when those individuals recommend the same lubricants to others for applications that do not call for unnecessarily expensive lubricants, it's incumbent upon those of us who know better to offer alternative advice.

Not saying there isn't a place for expensive synthetic oils, but I am saying that place isn't in street ridden machines that will see relatively short duration OCIs.


No where did the OP asked about the cheapest oil nor did he/she said it will be used for a short run to the local 7/11. There is no mention of a short duration OCI either. The bike in question is a high revving sport bike that has been modified. All you care about is saving a few dollars so you can buy steak for dinner. I worry about the OP's bike long term. Oh yeah, we used to own a 2006 Ninja 250 so I do know exactly what it will do and need instead of others that brag about their relatives working for Shell or their 45 years on a Harley or GSXR that are off topic.

I recommend the best to be safe rather than sorry. The bike only requires 2L of oils and you can buy synthetic for less than $10/quart. Buying dino oils you might be able to save enough for one steak. Whoopppee dddooooo!!!!!!

This will be my last input to this thread. I've actually never ridden a Harley, preferring sport and sport tour bikes, including a Yamaha's (R6, Seca 750) Suzuki (550, 600, my current SV650S, 750, 1100) Kawasaki (Concours), a wayward Honda or 2 (CBR 6, 900RR) and the best bike I ever owned, a BMW R1100RT. I've seen my share of 30 mph roads, (like the Blue Ridge), gone 80 for hours on end after stretching vacation "just one more day" trying to get home, and even done a few passes at the drag strip. And I've done a boatload of those miles on Rotella. Like I said, you buy what you want there az. You convinced me that you know more about the Ninja 250 than I do. What I know is a bike with a pipe (like the OP has) SHOULD have a jet kit in it. Not only for better power, but so it isn't overly lean, and holes a piston when he's running in the "high rev range". But that doesn't make the bike "modified" IMO. That's what most folks throw on a bike first because it's easy, probably saves a pound or two, makes a tangible difference, is pretty cheap, and personalizes the bike right out of the gate. And you are also right that the OP did not ask for the cheapest recommendation (actually Rotella is not the cheapest, but let's let that slide for a second) but I don't see where he asked for 10.00 or more a quart MC specific synthetic lube either. I certainly worry about the long term health of any bike myself. I'm very particular about my things, and how they are cared for. I suspect even you would buy one of my used bikes. :-) I hate to see folks get in the sport, and have issues that make them throw their hands up and leave it before they have had some fun in it. But if the OP chooses a conventional (it's not "dino") and saves a couple bucks, buys a couple gallons of fuel with the savings, and maybe can get an ice cream at the end of the ride, I'm all for it. And if I were to recommend the "cheapest" oil, (sunruh, chime in anytime), I'd lean toward conventional Mobil or Exxon 20w50. If you will go back and look, I did recommend a synthetic as an option in my original reply. Just because it isn't "your" synthetic, you seem to have gotten your pants in a bunch.
One last thing... It ain't bragging if you can back it up.
 
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I don't have any thing against Shell or convention oils for that matter, but if price was an issue most posters would not come on this site for advise. You do not have any personal experience with the 250R yet you call my recommendation based on actual ownership of one a "hearsay???" When I had my 250R I dynoed it at Prodyno here in Phoenix and the bike made more power with Belray EXS than with SRT. Horse power gain was only 1hp but that was 3% of stock hp so it was significant. The Two Brother pipe and jet kit net another 4HP on the top end for a total of 39hp, a 18% hp gain over stock of 33hp. I would call that a modified bike.

There is no such thing as "my" synthetic oils since I don't own, make or sell any. You can buy synthetic motorcycle oils on Amazon for less than $10/quart. I run Belray, Silkolene, or Motul in all of my bikes and scooters because I ride them like I race them. If I want to take it easy on my bikes I would just park it at home and drive my cars.
 
Had a nice tender juicy T-bone last night. Non-synthetic.

Delish....

Got 2 gallons of SRT in the garage waiting for spring. Bikes are happy and so am I. All is well.
 
I believe I used Rotella 15w40 in my 2006 Ninja 250. If I recall correctly it ran just fine with it.


Even though I've moved on to touring bikes I still miss that little Ninja. Talk about handling! I may see about picking up a used one just to tool around on.

Have fun on it!



Goose
 
Originally Posted By: mjoekingz28
Speaking of 250s, Honda is coming out with one.

http://powersports.honda.com/2011/cbr250r.aspx


In my Motorcyclist mag it said the racing 250cc four weighed at 190, but here it says 359. It was an older issue, but I cannot find any reference to it on the internet. I think the article said it replaces Honda's 125cc 2 stroke road race.

Well it's about *bleeping* time...

I think more makers are getting into the 250cc market because:

1: MotoGP's decision to turn their 125cc-2T class into a 250cc-4T class is lending an air of prestige to the type.

2: They have finally realized that the 250cc Ninja is actually Kawasaki's big money maker. Fact.
 
That's a bit porky for a sporting 250. Although, the 250 Ninja is not a lightweight either at 333 lbs. dry weight.

One would think that these machines should weigh in at around 300 lbs. even or less.

I've got a slightly modified vintage 1974 Yamaha RD350 that's putting out close to 50 h.p. and weighs just under 300 lbs.

Granted, two cycle engines are much lighter and I did remove a fair amount of weight by changing the exhaust to lightweight high performance expansion chambers, removing the stock air intake system, replaced the stock ignition system with a light weigh programmable digital system.
 
Love to see these new smaller bikes coming out. I think I may "downgrade" to a 250 if I ever wear out my EX500. Weights do seem high on these bikes, but they are a bit more realistic than old published weights that did not include fluids, etc. Also, there is more equipment on these bikes: starters, fairings, fuel injection systems in some cases, etc. Four strokes just weigh more than 2 strokes too. I wonder if anyone is contemplating a DI 2-stroke? There are some great outboards using that technology.
 
"I wonder if anyone is contemplating a DI 2-stroke? There are some great outboards using that technology."

I wish.

A fuel injected 400cc two cycle engine in a lightweight chassis would be a force to be reckoned with.

It would be nice to see Bombarier (Rotax) build a two cycle motorcycle engine and offer it to the motorcycle industry. I'm sure there would be some interesting creations as a result.
 
Wow I like the looks of that Honda! Picking up new Road King tomorrow...don't think the Mrs will entertain me talking of getting another bike.....right now
smile.gif




Goose
 
We have a 2005 250Ninja that has run on 5W-40 Rotella syn since new. I don't mind spending all that "Extra money" on a synthetic oil as it is 2 quarts a year(that is $10/year for oil)! We drive all year round in pretty cool Winter temps. My wife rides it 1.5miles to work in 40degress F mornings and I have ridden it from Houston to Ruidoso NM in one Summer day..752 miles @ 80MPH on I-10.

Short cold day trips or 12hrs @ 10,000+ RPM on a HOT Texas day. T6 has been OK for me.
 
Originally Posted By: mjoekingz28
Speaking of 250s, Honda is coming out with one.

http://powersports.honda.com/2011/cbr250r.aspx


i cant see enough to tell, but looks like they took the motor out of the crf250r/x and put it into a streetbike.

can anybody tell if it has the single fork rocker arm for the 2 exhaust valves?

at the rate the dirk bikes kill the valves in their motors, i would think you would need valves with every oil change in this bike.
 
Originally Posted By: sunruh

i cant see enough to tell, but looks like they took the motor out of the crf250r/x and put it into a streetbike.

can anybody tell if it has the single fork rocker arm for the 2 exhaust valves?

at the rate the dirk bikes kill the valves in their motors, i would think you would need valves with every oil change in this bike.





Roller rocker arms, described and pictured here:
Honda Worldwide Site: CBR250R

Valve clearance checks of 48,000 KM, or about 30,000 miles. Shims can be changed without removing camshafts.
 
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