2009 F150 5.4 3 Valve Engine Seized

[clinebarger]

Originally Posted By: mattd
Originally Posted By: clinebarger
Originally Posted By: mattd
Originally Posted By: ctechbob
If the engine rocks in the engine bay it wouldn't be the engine that's seized you wouldn't think. In order to rock the starter would have to be torquing against something in the driveline, if the engine is completely seized there should be no rocking.

Just a theory.


This. I would look at the transmission before the engine. A seized engine will only make a “click” sound and no engine movement. With no warning or noise I find it hard to believe the engine is the issue.


ASE L1????????


Have you ever seen a car with a seized engine???

I have seen car too many and have never seen the engine rock side to side. One solid click from the starter. If the crank doesn’t move the engine won’t rock back and forth. If it is indeed seized I would sure like to know what happened as this would be the first time in 13 years I would have heard about an engine that “rocks” when the starter engages. But hey, you see something new every day I suppose.

If it is indeed seized, as stated I would guess timing chain failure but they usually make noise on these engines before failing.

OP, did the engine move in the opposite direction?



He needs to manually Bar the engine over with a ratchet/breaker bar & remove all 8 spark plugs.
Yes...I have seen seized/hydrolocked engines move around with starter torque.

 

[mattd]

After re reading the original post, I see that I missed the part where he said the oil pressure light flickered before stalling. OP, is that correct? Or did the oil light come on after the engine already stalled? With that said , if the warning light came on right before stalling, then I would agree that the engine is likely bound up, very curious by what. My apologies leading the discussion astray.

And yes, hydrolocked engines with torque up from the starter. The crank will still try to move under hydraulic lock. But one with a frozen crankshaft from rod or main bearing failure will not.

 

[clinebarger]

Originally Posted By: mattd
After re reading the original post, I see that I missed the part where he said the oil pressure light flickered before stalling. With that said I agree that the engine is likely bound up, very curious by what. My apologies leading the discussion astray.

And yes, hydrolocked engines with torque up from the starter. The crank will still try to move under hydraulic lock. But one with a frozen crankshaft from rod or main bearing failure will not.


I was being rude....I apologize.

 

[Trav]

I had an old 429 do this many years ago, it dropped a valve. It would be uncommon but not impossible.
It will be interesting to find out what they find. I would bet against anything in the drive train or plastic tensioner bits finding its way past the pickup screen in the pan and into the crank driven oil pump though.

A broken chain could allow the pistons to hit the valves and a dropped valve will both stop the engine instantly with little warning if any as would a broken rod. I put my bet on the engine.
IMO the big question is how much damage is there inside.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

See what happens when you use the same oil filter multiple times?
Read my signature. And, use PYB.
Timing chain.

 

[53' Stude]

Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
See what happens when you use the same oil filter multiple times?
Read my signature. And, use PYB.
Timing chain.


Says the man that is using PP EURO 0W40 and brags how quiet his engine is

Just messin with ya BlueOvalFilter.

 

[JLTD]

Originally Posted By: mattd
Originally Posted By: ctechbob
If the engine rocks in the engine bay it wouldn't be the engine that's seized you wouldn't think. In order to rock the starter would have to be torquing against something in the driveline, if the engine is completely seized there should be no rocking.

Just a theory.


This. I would look at the transmission before the engine. A seized engine will only make a “click” sound and no engine movement. With no warning or noise I find it hard to believe the engine is the issue.


This and other driveline comments sparked a memory...my sister's car once had the transmission freeze like that; engine was fine all they needed to do first was disconnect the flex plate and turn it over...it would have run - but she replaced the engine first and same problem occurred so ended up buying an engine AND transmission. So IMO try disconnecting the trans and check the engine as a diagnosis before buying expensive stuff.

 

[clinebarger]

Originally Posted By: JLTD

This and other driveline comments sparked a memory...my sister's car once had the transmission freeze like that; engine was fine all they needed to do first was disconnect the flex plate and turn it over...it would have run - but she replaced the engine first and same problem occurred so ended up buying an engine AND transmission. So IMO try disconnecting the trans and check the engine as a diagnosis before buying expensive stuff.


If the Torque Converter/Pump/Stator was locked-up......How in the world did they get torque converter bolts/nuts back in?

I have seen countless transmission failures.....Rarely does it lock an engine down! The rotating mass of the engine, Especially a long stroke V8 like a 5.4L will quickly break & clear out of the way whatever failed in the transmission. (Pump or Stator).

I have seen a Converter "balloon" so badly that it seized the engine, But the engine was making 600 HP & being hit with a 200 HP shot of nitrous. I'm not saying a stock engine can't balloon a converter.....But It wouldn't be able permanent distort the housing (The converter would bounce back to it's original size once the engine is returned to idle) A ballooning converter will quickly destroy the Thrust Bearing as well.

Ford transmissions have studs sticking out of the converter, So unbolting the converter from the flexplate does no good.....Not that you could remove them on a truly Locked-Up engine without removing the transmission or engine to gain access.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: car51
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
See what happens when you use the same oil filter multiple times?
Read my signature. And, use PYB.
Timing chain.


Says the man that is using PP EURO 0W40 and brags how quiet his engine is

Just messin with ya BlueOvalFilter.

Do you think it's too thick for my engine?

 

[JLTD]

Originally Posted By: clinebarger
Originally Posted By: JLTD

This and other driveline comments sparked a memory...my sister's car once had the transmission freeze like that; engine was fine all they needed to do first was disconnect the flex plate and turn it over...it would have run - but she replaced the engine first and same problem occurred so ended up buying an engine AND transmission. So IMO try disconnecting the trans and check the engine as a diagnosis before buying expensive stuff.


If the Torque Converter/Pump/Stator was locked-up......How in the world did they get torque converter bolts/nuts back in?



Don't know...because I was told my help wasn't welcome and wasn't there. But I did get to say "I told you so!" later on ...

 

[littleant]

Originally Posted By: ctechbob
If the engine rocks in the engine bay it wouldn't be the engine that's seized you wouldn't think. In order to rock the starter would have to be torquing against something in the driveline, if the engine is completely seized there should be no rocking.

Just a theory.

 

[Trav]

If something broke it is a blocked/locked engine not a seized engine, there is a difference. Think of an unmounted electric motor that has something blocking it from turning, when power is applied it will try and torque the whole motor but seize the stator and field together nothing happens.

Same thing in an engine a blocked engine is still free moving something is just blocking it from turning, when no pressure is applied to the blockage the parts are relaxed and when hit with the force of the starter will try and move and torque the engine slightly, same principal as a hydrolocked engine.
A engine with seized pistons or crank will have zero movement and just sit there an immovable lump. An engine with a broken component that is preventing it from turning is technically not a seized engine.

 

[mattd]

I provided the same explanation in earlier posts as well

 

[Trav]

Sorry I didn't follow your post after you got uppity with clinebarger, the man knows more about drive trains and transmissions than anyone on this board.

 

[PReal]

Originally Posted By: Trav
If something broke it is a blocked/locked engine not a seized engine, there is a difference. Think of an unmounted electric motor that has something blocking it from turning, when power is applied it will try and torque the whole motor but seize the stator and field together nothing happens.

Same thing in an engine a blocked engine is still free moving something is just blocking it from turning, when no pressure is applied to the blockage the parts are relaxed and when hit with the force of the starter will try and move and torque the engine slightly, same principal as a hydrolocked engine.
A engine with seized pistons or crank will have zero movement and just sit there an immovable lump. An engine with a broken component that is preventing it from turning is technically not a seized engine.




That’s where I’m betting I stand. Looking at the plethora of severely damaged timing chain guides and tensioners on 5.4 3v’s, I imagine that the incredibly bumpy road i was on in combination with a broken timing chain guide effectly lodged a piece in a sprocket somewhere in the timing system.

We shall see when the shop gives me a ring.

 

[modularv8]

Originally Posted By: PReal


That’s where I’m betting I stand. Looking at the plethora of severely damaged timing chain guides and tensioners on 5.4 3v’s, I imagine that the incredibly bumpy road i was on in combination with a broken timing chain guide effectly lodged a piece in a sprocket somewhere in the timing system.

We shall see when the shop gives me a ring.


Any updates from the shop?

 

[Gus_Mahn]

The engine in my '04 F150 locked up 150 miles from home with a car trailer on the back. Luckily it broke free after it cooled and I was able to drive it home after unplugging the VVT solenoids, but the engine was toast within 500 miles. The 3V oil pump is marginal due to the VVT phasers. The chain tensioners tend to blow the seal and loose oil pressure. This starves the camshafts, and it's almost always the passenger side that shows the damage. Mine had extruded aluminum as it melted.

Don't mess with used engines if you do fix it. These issues are all to common to 3V's. I wound up putting a $3200 rebuilt engine into mine from Eagle Engine Sales. Most of the rebuilts including mine come from AER out of Texas who is also Ford's OE engine rebuilder. A Ford longblock was $5200. The only difference was the warranty. My warranty pays $50/hr, and the Ford reman pays dealer rate.

 

[tig1]

Update??

 

[SatinSilver]

Originally Posted By: PReal
164k religious 5k oil changes with full synthetic.


You must have a short memory:

Originally Posted By: PReal
I just picked up a case of QSGB for a buck a quart at an autozone on clearance.

I drive around 40 miles a day total in heavy houston stop and go traffic. Every few weeks I make a long trip of 200-300 miles. I typically run 5k OCI's with blend or syn. Should I continue to run 5k OCI with QSGB?

2009 f150 3v 5.4 with 100k miles.

 

[john_pifer]

Those F-150 3V engines are the weakest "300 HP" engine I've ever driven. Zero power.