2006 Jeep Rubi 1st O/C

[Ram@Will]

Hello to everyone,great place to spend the nights reading away. I just changed the factory fill on my 4.0 jeep Wrangler with 650 miles( oil looked reddish and seem very thin) with Exxon superflo
10W40. I thought this a good viscosity since the 4.0 likes a little thicker oil, i'll do an UOA to see how its working. BTW I would of used delo 15w40 like on the other Jeep GC but i've read the added zinc kills the cats ,so no more delo on the old jeep GC ,I used Castrol HM 20w50 instead runs good but fuel milage took a hit, when ready i'll also perform a UOA to see if it likes the Castrol.

[ May 23, 2006, 12:13 AM: Message edited by: Ram@Will ]

 

[MarkC]

Zinc isn't going to kill your cat, unless you're burning a lot of oil, in which case, you have other problems. Delo would be a better choice than 20W50 in old one. How old is it, anyway?
For the new one, you don't need 10W40, especially since your owner's manual probably says use 10W30. Why not just use one of the heavier 30's? If you must have a 40 weight, why not a 5W40 synthetic?

 

[Zaedock]

I would use a 40wt in any Jeep 2.5L/4.0L (except in winter I use 5W30). Especially if you see extended trail time and also summer is coming. What's wrong with 10W40? It's come a long way in the last few years. Use it without worry.

 

[Greaser]

Try Delvac 1 5W-40 in your 4.0L.My Jeeps ran great on this oil till I found Esso XD-3 0W-40.If the container is labeled for SL use in gasoline engines then there is not a problem with your cats.I have been using an HDEO in my Jeeps for a couple of years,and "E" tests,with my readings improving as the Jeeps get older.My 01 TJ has 3 cats probably same as your 06 and ran great on Delvac 1 and noe the Esso lube.

 

[Ram@Will]

I guess nect oil change i'll back to delo on the old one( 98 Jeep Grand Cherokee 180K) and i'll try a heavy 30 wt on the new wrangler.
Is rotella 30 WT any good?, my buddy use to work at a jeep stealership and they would use 30wt on the 4.0, to avoid customer complaints regarding valvetrain noise.Any comments on this?
I also did a little research and castrol start up 10w30 is a heavy 30(11.5 or something like it).
Could a HM oil be used on a newer engine?
BTW the engine in the Rubi seems quieter at normal temp then before since switching to 10w40.

 

[97TJ]

hi i am runng 10w 30w in mine as it is still under warranty, make sure that the oil you use is the one recommend by jeep and ownwers manual, i just had engine repair and dealer and jeep/dc was stickler for oil receipts, i got thru but it was not pleasant, since this is new jeep keep it in recommended range to avoid possible hassles latter,..........enjoy your new jeep and good luck.....................

 

[427Z06]

quote:

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Originally posted by MarkC:
Zinc isn't going to kill your cat, unless you're burning a lot of oil...

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It may not kill it immediately, but it will reduce it's effectiveness over time. Plenty of research demonstrates this. American manufacturers, and now the Europeans with their low SAPS oils, are serious about this issue. One of the goals of the SM/GF-4 developement was to help manufacturers meet the requirements of the EPA's mandated 120K mi/10-year emmisions warranty.

http://epa.gov/compliance/resources/cases/civil/caa/daimlerchrysler.html

 

[Gary Allan]

Although I've never had a cat go bad, even in the presence of a smoking oil plume situation, I can only add that the 2000 and later 4.0 installations went to a two stage cat system. There have been issues with these, with and without using out of spec oils. I don't believe that there will be a 2007 4.0 offered due to its emissions issues on top of its limited usage. I think 3.9 V6 were deemed a better investment instead of attempting to tune a 40 year old tractor engine for todays emission requirements.

So, while I'm one to scoff at "warnings" to mere uninformed mortals

, there may be something to ponder for a moment or two before jumping into uncharted waters.

I, btw, use only HDEO in both my jeeps ..but given that they're both single cat engines ..and R&R is about $150 (non-OEM), I'm not worried. I'm already beyond the 80k warranty on one.

 

[Ram@Will]

Gary, no there will be no 4.0 for 2007 sad but true, the new wrangler will have the 3.8 cam in block eng from the minivans. Its a good engine regardless but the 4.0 is unbeatable for lowend torque.The new 3.8 cranks 240 ft lbs tq @ 4000 rpm. i guess they'll mask the lack of lowend torque with an even more loose torque converter.
I also just put a new oem cat($150) on the 98 grand cherokee so i stopped using delo and won't be using it either in the wrangler if they've had issues with the 3 cat system. What jeeps do you have?

 

[Steve S]

My wifes superduty with the diesel engine has a cat and a hdeo is recommended.

 

[427Z06]

Gary, as usual, presents a nice balanced view. I didn't mean to alarm anyone, but the research does show that phosphorus in ZDDP will affect your cat over the long term.

Another misconception is that you have to "burn oil" in order for phosphorus to contaiminat the cat. In fact, it's the volatility of the phosphorus from the ZDDP that correlates well with cat contamination.

See this study for more info:

http://www.savantgroup.com/ASTMSym04-PEI.pdf

One other point, just because you passed an emmision check at 125K miles, doesn't mean your cat is operating at %100 efficiency. There's a age/mileage fudge factor built into the emmision testing standards.

 

[427Z06]

quote:

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Originally posted by Steve S:
My wifes superduty with the diesel engine has a cat and a hdeo is recommended.

---

Different animal, with different emission reduction goals.

 

[CJWAUSTIN]

I have used Delvac 1300 series and Delo 400 series in just about everything I have owned gas and diesel and have yet to have a problem with a cat.

My family ownes a large construction company and every engine in the family gets Delvac from D-7 dozers to Ford Focus cars. No cat problems ever.

I use delo in my Jeep 4.0, and the 10W-30 Delo does meet the API requirements for it. In fact as I recall the oil is one API rating better than what the 2002 Wrangler manual said to use. That said I use more 15W-40 because it is easy to find.

Recently I rented a 2006 Dodge Dakota the owners manual said use a high quality API labled oil, it didnt say SL or SM.

 

[Greaser]

So the SL rating on HDEO's means nothing?

 

[427Z06]

quote:

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Originally posted by CJWAUSTIN:
I have used Delvac 1300 series and Delo 400 series in just about everything I have owned gas and diesel and have yet to have a problem with a cat.

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Do you have to pass an emmisions test every year? If yes, what are the mileage's on the vehicles?

 

[427Z06]

quote:

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Originally posted by Gary Allan:
I agree ..but the fudge factor is also changing.

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So I think we're on the same page?

In any event, HDEOs may, or may not, get you to 125K without experiencing a problem with your cat. But to say "Zinc isn't going to kill your cat, unless you're burning a lot of oil" is a bit pollyanish.

Type 'catalytic converters' into google to see the aftermarket replacement business.

 

[Gary Allan]

Yes

. I could have worded that better.

If anything, the spec's are going to spiral downward and inward for the age factor. They'll shave whatever % is needed to meet the current limits on emissions ..regarless of how many units are in the registered fleet.

Always err on the side of caution. Tread not where the fools venture (do not attempt this at home, folks. Amature risk taker on closed course)

 

[Gary Allan]

quote:

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Originally posted by Greaser:
So the SL rating on HDEO's means nothing?

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The target market for these oils is heavy gasoline and mixed fleets. Those vehicles typically are emissions exempt or are the newer "HD emissions" ..which has crept upward in GVWR since 1975 every few years. I would imagine it's at over 8500 ..maybe 10k now

Back in 1975 it was anything above 1/2 ton (7500 on up, maybe

 

[Greaser]

Hmm..Mobil 1 10W-30 is API SL SJ CF ACEA etc. and also states warranty protection for gasoline,diesel and turbocharged engines...The back of the XD-3,a "universal"synthetic,all-season heavy duty engine oil(marked on the jug), HDEO jug states API C1-4,CG-4,CF,CD,SL,SJ,SH...so what we're saying here is that the PCMO SL is not the same API standard as the HDEO SL?I know what you're trying to say here Gary and I disagree.The diesel oil is "universal" yes,but aimed at a heavy duty application where wear from abuse is more common as the ordinary "car" oil is weaker to prolong emmision componants is what is being stated here.Didn't the Mobil 1 "car" oil 0W-40 have as much ZDDP as the Delvac 1 HDEO?If I owned a fleet of Jeeps doing security protection duties and 1 dump truck using the same oil for both due to the fact it was SL rated and it ruined my vehicles a law suit would be in order..no?SL rated is for 2001 and newer engines if I'm not mistakened and SL rating is just that SL rated for 01 and newer engines.The next rated oil has the considerable ZDDP drop if I read correctly.Gary where did you read that the dual cat systems on the newer Jeeps are having trouble?My Jeep's E tests readings are improving since switching to the Heavy duty engine oils

 

[CJWAUSTIN]

I am in Oregon and he get tested every other year, i go about 200,000 on a vehicle before i get rid of it.

Rather than those of us who say this oil is okay to use based upon real life use, why don't YOU find us a few credible accounts of these oils killing cats?