CR-v is 4WD and same inside space as Liberty. I drove a Liberty all last summer. Nice vehicle, but has the typical American "wandering" steering.
2006: 'Daimler-Chrysler invented the minivan'. Not VW?
- Thread starter Auto-Union
- Start date
- Status
Here are some VAG weight/MPG -
The 1.9 tdi in the 2,943lb A3 gets 64MPG
The 2.0 TDI in the 3,395 lb A6 gets 57MPG
The 2.7 TDI in the 3,582 lb A6 gets 51MPG
The 3.0 TDI in the 3,847 lb A6 gets 46MPG
The 3.0 TDI in the 4034 lb A8 gets 44MPG
The 3.0 TDI in the 5,125 lb A6 Allroad gets 43MPG
The 2.7 TDI in the 4,133 lb A6 gets 40MPG
The 4.2 TDI in the 4398 lb A8 gets 39MPG
The 3.0 TDI in the 5,125 lb Q7 gets 34MPG
The Liberty is 4,000 lbs and yes, those are Euro TDIs.
I did say Merc.
Why, yes I do.
We have a 118" Standard roof that we use as our primary grip truck. Running B100 we get 35MPG in mixed suburban use. I doubt most people have the patience to drive like I do, and most Sprinter drivers aren't paying for thier own gas.
I know the lack of low sulfer diesel and emissions compliance is keeping most of these Euro diesels off shore. Once we have LSD, how much of a MPG wack can you expect to loose in emissions compliance? Or, are these engines so far away from compliance that they can't be tamed?
How far out of wack are these TDI's that they could be deemed worse than all the 12MPG Hummers out there?
He basically says that in the one where he takes the rear suspension out of a car and puts it on someone's front lawn.
I've worked with Germans that were a lot like him. My favorite line from a German engineer was when Hans from Rhienmetal was being chided by the American program manager about Hans making an engineering error Hans was a German.
Hans replied, "Ve Germans occasionally make mistakes, but ve make them much more precisely that you do."
I too thought the "we invented the minivan" claim in the commercial was stretching things a tad. Maybe that was the first vehicle called a "minivan", but both VW and Corvair had what could be a minivan (actually, one could claim Corvair was trying to copy VW). We also have Subaru calling the Outback "The world's first sport-utility wagon". Maybe what Subaru meant was "The world's first four-wheel drive wagon to be called a Sport Utility Wagon that wasn't an AMC Eagle".
Read that AllPar article if you haven't had the chance. The aim of the minivan was to create a van that was as manageable as a station wagon. Chrysler was dominating the van market and it was logical to take it down a class. If Chrysler were arguing that it created the full-size van, we'd have a fight here, but the minivan?
Come on, I know there are plenty of folks on here older than me at the spring chicken age of 30 but man I can remember when the minivan hit the market, it was as if someone had just figured out that it's possible to put hot fudge on ice cream. Seeing as I was carted around in a 78 Plymouth Volare wagon and then a Chevy Astrovan, I remember it quite well.
Come on, I know there are plenty of folks on here older than me at the spring chicken age of 30 but man I can remember when the minivan hit the market, it was as if someone had just figured out that it's possible to put hot fudge on ice cream. Seeing as I was carted around in a 78 Plymouth Volare wagon and then a Chevy Astrovan, I remember it quite well.
For the nit pickly among us, myself included, I doubt that anyone would object to them saying that they popularized the mini-van. They put them on the map.
It's like the BMC and the first Minis. They didn't invent frontwheel drive cars, but they sure put them on the map.
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2003
- Messages
- 23,591
The first two officially labeled "minivan" vehicles that I remember coming out in Europe were the Renault Espace, the Mitsubishi Space Wagon and the Pontiac Transport, all from the early-late '80s. US Chrysler cars were, as far as I remember, limited to the Talbot brand of compact cars like the Horizon. That changed around 1990, when Chrysler tried (and failed) selling the Le Baron convertible in Europe.
Renault Espace
Mitsubishi Space Wagon
Pontiac Transport
Renault Espace
Mitsubishi Space Wagon
Pontiac Transport
Then you should like this quote from that article I posted:
Chrysler invented the modern minivan - twice. Richard Moss pointed out that Chrysler Europe was working with Matra on a minivan in the late 1970s / early 1980s. When it was ready to go into production, Chrysler sold most of its European operations to Peugeot-Citroen (PSA), which dumped the fledgling minivan. Matra took the design to Renault, which modified it to fit the Renault 21 drivetrain...resulting in a calendar-year 1983 introduction and Europe's most popular minivan. If Chrysler had held on to Chrysler UK, it may well have had a greater European foot-hold - but that's another story. The American Plymouth Voyager and Dodge Caravan were also introduced in 1983, as 1984 models.
VW probally sold a million Vanagons by then.
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2003
- Messages
- 23,591
I hereby acknowledge and maybe even testify that I clicked your posted link before posting my own personal experience. In no way was my post meant to disregard your most excellent and highly informative find. I was merely relaying my personal experience. Now, do you want a heart sticker next to the A on you term paper?
I would mori! I would!
Auto-union, I agree it's hard to dismiss the vanagon/westphalia. I'd only argue that it was not much of a factor sales-wise in the US market. Additionally, Chrysler's development of the minivan streched back into the 70's. I personally love the later Eurovans. I'd have no problem driving around in one of those.
Auto-union, I agree it's hard to dismiss the vanagon/westphalia. I'd only argue that it was not much of a factor sales-wise in the US market. Additionally, Chrysler's development of the minivan streched back into the 70's. I personally love the later Eurovans. I'd have no problem driving around in one of those.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked