2 Mach-E Blue Cruise Fatalities

[demarpaint]

Both drivers of both vehicles with the Blue Cruise are live and well

That's good, but it's still sad people died as per the headline, and based on what I read here about the system it isn't ready for prime time. Maybe Ford will get sued into reality and fix the system, or maybe they won't and they'll sit on their hands. Opinions are going to vary on this one, a lot.

 

[Torrid]

I dont believe we actually know whether it's safer than people or not on an accident per mile driven basis because from what I can find Ford doesn't publish its safety record like Benz and Tesla.

I don't think we'll ever know. It's still the driver's responsibility to intervene so with Ford not getting any culpability in the matter it'll never have Ford at blame.

That's good, but it's still sad people died as per the headline, and based on what I read here about the system it isn't ready for prime time. Maybe Ford will get sued into reality and fix the system, or maybe they won't and they'll sit on their hands. Opinions are going to vary on this one, a lot.

None of them are ready for prime time so to speak. I'm amazed any of these systems have managed to stay legal. The only legality issues seem to arise from who's to blame for driving the car. This is the reason why any lawsuit with Ford would likely not go anywhere. It'll be all on the driver. I personally am not comfortable for being responsible for the software's mistakes, so I don't let these systems drive. I have have no problem being responsible for my own driving though, which is why I have a strong aversion for these systems. Adaptive cruise with emergency braking is one thing, auto steering is another. I don't even allow the adaptive cruise to match the car in front of me if the speed differential is more than a couple of miles an hour. I'm not going to rely on it to slow my car for a vehicle that is slowing down. I take it out of cruise immediately. What if today is the day it malfunctions and I rear end the car ahead of me?

That's a lot of trust otherwise to put in a camera, a sensor(unlike Tesla), and a computer algorithm.

 

[alarmguy]

So blue cruise is more dangerous than driving the old fashioned way. Good to know.

We don’t know that until statistics are calculated. I’m sure humans will be more defective.
I think unrealistic to expect perfection from the computer and not the human.
I think long term percentage wise humans will cause more accidents and deaths but computers will still cause some.
In these cases it’s still humans fault I guess, gray area for me personally.

It will be hard for a human to pay attention all the time when on Blue Cruise or any of them. Maybe they should not be legal then again maybe they will still kill but kill less than if humans drove

 

[alarmguy]

That's good, but it's still sad people died as per the headline, and based on what I read here about the system it isn't ready for prime time. Maybe Ford will get sued into reality and fix the system, or maybe they won't and they'll sit on their hands. Opinions are going to vary on this one, a lot.

I’m not condoning the system just correcting the statement about saying the drivers aren’t alive to day what went wrong.
Not sure why these things are on the road personally unless we can sue the manufacturer when they kill

 

[demarpaint]

I’m not condoning the system just correcting the statement about saying the drivers aren’t alive to day what went wrong.
Not sure why these things are on the road personally unless we can sue the manufacturer when they kill

I'm not sure why they're on the road either when they're clearly not ready for prime time. It seems to me like the consumer is the end tester and crash dummy in some instances. Sadly more people will die, and maybe then Uncle Sam will wake up with some mandates/safety regulations. Not mandates on mpg, we have enough of that, but on the safety of things like E-Cruise and the like. Time to hide.

 

[alarmguy]

I'm not sure why they're on the road either when they're clearly not ready for prime time. It seems to me like the consumer is the end tester and crash dummy in some instances. Sadly more people will die, and maybe then Uncle Sam will wake up with some mandates/safety regulations. Not mandates on mpg, we have enough of that, but on the safety of things like E-Cruise and the like. Time to hide.

Voters = government = EPA = future emission mandates and big tax benefits to get there I guess ?

 

[JeffKeryk]

Like any tool, it is only as good as the person operating it. I believe properly used, the driver's aids can be very beneficial. Used improperly, they can be deadly. Vehicles are dangerous in the wrong hands.

Full disclosure; I don't know anything about Blue Cruise functionality. But if it is anything like the Tesla functionality, it has 360* visibility, which no human has.

 

[demarpaint]

Voters = government = EPA = future emission mandates and big tax benefits to get there I guess ?

I'll leave it as I guess, this way no feathers get ruffled here [FTR not yours]. But boy there is so much to write.

 

[JeffKeryk]

NHTSA on Driver Assist System safety.
Hint - drivers are the biggest problem, by far.

Here's the Wikipedia information. Hint - drivers are the biggest problem, by far.

 

[Brons2]

2 rear ending accidents. In one case the person was drunk.

To me this is nothing more than misuse of the driving aid, but its going to be more complicated for Ford as (It seems) in both cases the vehicle we're on/in geofenced "hands free" driving areas.


https://apnews.com/article/ford-blu...ation-deaths-4429651e132e3702a6a2a6a127aebbc2

I'll put in my two cents, being a Mach-E owner.

One being, there are multiple versions of BlueCruise, most of the 21/22 cars were delivered with 1.0. Ours has 1.2. The latest and supposedly best by far is 1.3 and some folks that have 21s are now getting it OTA. Our 1.2 is pretty good, but it does tend to want to try tend towards the right side of the lane.

The other thing being, whether it's just assisted cruise or full hands-free, there are multiple modes of operation of the driving assistance, as well as adjustable sensitivity. There's a button on the steering wheel to adjust the following distance and if you have that set to only 1 bar, I can definitely see it rear ending someone. It definitely comes up on people faster than I am comfortable with if I'm driving at highway speed and come up on stopped traffic. I usually cancel the cruise in such situations by tapping the brake, and then let the 1 pedal braking do most of the rest of the work.

But if you are driving in stop and go traffic, the single bar mode is the one you want. If you set it to 4 bars in stop and go traffic on the freeway the car will be braking significantly every second or two.

I can definitely see a drunk person configuring this following distance incorrectly for the traffic conditions. I doubt it would hit anyone if you had it set to 4 bars following distance, it is extremely sensitive in that mode.

 

[MCompact]

Like any tool, it is only as good as the person operating it. I believe properly used, the driver's aids can be very beneficial. Used improperly, they can be deadly. Vehicles are dangerous in the wrong hands.

Full disclosure; I don't know anything about Blue Cruise functionality. But if it is anything like the Tesla functionality, it has 360* visibility, which no human has.

I find the Distronic Plus (Level 2 autonomy) in my C43 to be vey helpful on long interstate slots as well as in stop and go traffic. I didn't think I'd like it but I do- after I turned off the route based speed adaptation that caused the car to slow down in corners to "80 year old man in a ball cap driving a Lucerne" velocities.

 

[Brons2]

I don't have any of those problems driving my own car myself as I should at all times. Safest option available.

Except statistics bear out that it isn't.

 

[Brons2]

That's good, but it's still sad people died as per the headline, and based on what I read here about the system it isn't ready for prime time. Maybe Ford will get sued into reality and fix the system, or maybe they won't and they'll sit on their hands. Opinions are going to vary on this one, a lot.

There's not enough information in this thread to make qualitative judgements about this. For example, what version of BlueCruise did it have? What was the following distance set to?

 

[Brons2]

I'm not sure why they're on the road either when they're clearly not ready for prime time. It seems to me like the consumer is the end tester and crash dummy in some instances. Sadly more people will die, and maybe then Uncle Sam will wake up with some mandates/safety regulations. Not mandates on mpg, we have enough of that, but on the safety of things like E-Cruise and the like. Time to hide.

Meanwhile thousands of people will die in 100% human driven accidents. The numbers on computers driving versus humans are very clear.

 

[Brons2]

Like any tool, it is only as good as the person operating it. I believe properly used, the driver's aids can be very beneficial. Used improperly, they can be deadly. Vehicles are dangerous in the wrong hands.

Full disclosure; I don't know anything about Blue Cruise functionality. But if it is anything like the Tesla functionality, it has 360* visibility, which no human has.

This is correct. It can change lanes for you too.

 

[Ethan2]

No intelligent person would let the car drive itself.

No intelligent person would let hairless apes drive 3-ton missiles at 85 mph but… ya know… here we are.

 

[demarpaint]

Meanwhile thousands of people will die in 100% human driven accidents. The numbers on computers driving versus humans are very clear.

You're happy with the system use it. I'll pass.

 

[Brons2]

You're happy with the system use it. I'll pass.

Fair.

I'd been thinking about this for a couple of days and it comes down to something of a freedom issue for me. I don't think my rights to use this system safely should be abridged by a few ham fisted operators. The system is safe IMO if the limitations are understood and taken into account. It is not a fully autonomous system and should be monitored at all times. You can even give the system minor correction without triggering a disengage, and I do this frequently if I'm approaching a sharper corner or so forth; I give the wheel a little encouragement in the correct direction.

Does the system make driving a little less stressful? Absolutely. That's why I use it so often. Is it a replacement for actually driving? No.

 

[Jetronic]

In the case of the three dead people it seems the system needs work.

How certain is anyone bluecruise was on? or even adaptive cruise? I believe on Fords you can switch to regular cruise control

 

[Torrid]

Fair.

I'd been thinking about this for a couple of days and it comes down to something of a freedom issue for me. I don't think my rights to use this system safely should be abridged by a few ham fisted operators. The system is safe IMO if the limitations are understood and taken into account. It is not a fully autonomous system and should be monitored at all times. You can even give the system minor correction without triggering a disengage, and I do this frequently if I'm approaching a sharper corner or so forth; I give the wheel a little encouragement in the correct direction.

Does the system make driving a little less stressful? Absolutely. That's why I use it so often. Is it a replacement for actually driving? No.

I wish these driver systems were less stressful to me. They leave me constantly on edge. I’m thinking I’m just not meant to use them and that I’m not the target audience. I get this feeling that if I actually relax I’ll get complacent and not intervene in time of a really stupid mistake.