not.even.closer.
How's that for eloquence? No explanation needed, just periods placed randomly.
1999 Toyota Avalon w/Low Mileage Trans Slips When Cold
- Thread starter edge10
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How's that for eloquence? No explanation needed, just periods placed randomly.
It would be "use 5W20 instead of 10W40 because bottle says is "better". Ignore the numbers posted in the data sheet completely.
And yes, the 5W20 SG will "hold its viscosity" better... but since it starts lower that the other fluid (both measured at 100C), is still not appropriate.
Same with LV fluids. They start lower than the lowest a normal used ATF will drop.
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You stated that an ATF’s frictional characteristics are defined by its viscosity. I’m not sure there’s an “eloquent” way to respond to such nonsense.
I did not such a thing. Frictional characteristics are MEASURED by the viscosity methodology and testing results. Heck even definition of viscosity has the word friction in it:
Viscosity can be conceptualized as quantifying the internal frictional force that arises between adjacent layers of fluid that are in relative motion.
But, since you know so much better, why don't elaborate, instead of those statements without substance?
Take ATF+4 and Type F, for example. Both are "standard viscosity" ATFs...similar to the classic Dex/Merc. However, ATF+4 is a HFM (highly friction modified) fluid, while Type F contains little to no friction modifiers. IOW, they are at opposite ends of the spectrum, even though their viscosity is similar.
Another example: Dex/Merc has a higher viscosity than Dex VI, but their frictional characteristics are very similar.
I certainly don't "know so much"...this is really basic stuff. There are folks here who know far more about it than I do.
Another example: Dex/Merc has a higher viscosity than Dex VI, but their frictional characteristics are very similar.
I certainly don't "know so much"...this is really basic stuff. There are folks here who know far more about it than I do.
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4WD
$50 site donor 2024
Can you try an analogy that makes sense …
No, instead you elect to ignore what others have correctly posted.
Ok, perhaps you take GM’s word on this, right ?
Kschachn.... Of course one can get a Dexron fluid that meets that older no longer licensed spec... Like Dexron III.
No legitimate blenders would forget how to make it.
Yes... It is a bit more... Shall we say "risky" because it means you have to trust the formulation to be correct. However from a good legitimate oil blender I feel like it is not a issue at all.
I would trust ExxonMobil, Valvoline, Castrol , Pennzoil and Chevron Havoline, and Warren Oil, Warren Distribution to be able to formulate a Dexron III transmission fluid correctly.
Call me.... Crazy ...
Could also very likely be a seal that has gone bad. Which is my guess.
Also quite possible.^
There's just a month of Sundays between "suitable" and "ideal." I can't fathom how people ignore that.
It's "suitable." It's not "ideal." GM has no problem using that word where appropriate. For example:
I would simply look at the words and assume the persons using them know what they mean.
It's "suitable." It's not "ideal." GM has no problem using that word where appropriate. For example:
I would simply look at the words and assume the persons using them know what they mean.
I would throw some Supertech Dex/Merc (566053874) in it.
The A541E uses a screen filter, When I removed the pan on my 200,000 mile A541E.....The "filter" was clean. Noises are never good.
Add me to the list of people that disagree with you. I had maxlife in my 270k mile gm 4 speed auto from the 80s. It's been in there maybe 10-15k now, previously it was dexron 6 and mercon 5 before that. I also used dexron 6 in several other of the same transmission model (gm th2004r) with no issues on any of them. I would never downgrade to dexron 3 in any of my old transmissions.
You're just lucky I guess. I don't like to gamble and I don't tell other to gamble just because once I won a lottery ticket.
FYI AMSOIL makes synthetic fluids with both viscosity, normal and LV. For people that care about original specifications.
I guess they don't know what they are doing either.
For their "Signature" series they even raised a bit the LV 100C (hot engine) viscosity. Again... probably they don't know anything about ATF fluids?
I'm talking 19 years 160k miles on one of the transmission (115-270k) and then several other winter beaters probably adding up to 400k miles driven. It's a lot of time to "be lucky" especially the way I drove that car (age 18 purchase). What do you think should happen putting dexron 6 in an old dexron 3 application?
I think there is more to it than just the viscosity ranges.
So, if it's more than that, it can be ignored?
Example of similar argument: "Live is more than just breathing air, so air can be ignored as a requirement for life."
AMSOIL doesn't ignore the viscosity. I guess you know better, just because your cars didn't crap out yet.
PS: Miles don't mean anything to me. Miles on highway don't heat up the transmission fluid, mine hovers at about 65C/150F. Sitting at a stoplight in 95F summer head will bake it at over 99C/210F.
Auxiliary coolers will keep transmission fluid cooler (and thicker) than the 100C value. It doesn't mean that everyone that doesn't have an aux cooler or doesn't drive mostly on highways, will have the same experience.
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If it meets the requirements by GM it's probably fine. Not many others agreeing with you here about that. It's like saying using 5w20 in a vehicle that specs it but originally called for 5w30 will most likely cause the engine to fail. It's debatable which will cause more long term wear but it's safe to say most vehicles running 5w20 won't fail because of it. You're like some old guy saying "don't use that new full synthetic oil in that old V8 engine - it wasn't meant for it".
Btw I blew up 3 rear ends in the 2 vehicles that the current transmission has been in. The first car rusted out so the transmission and other parts lived on... that's how it got so many years/miles. There has been plenty of heat in that transmission and the newer fluid probably held up better. All the issues I had were at less than 130k miles when it still had dexron 3 in it and they went away after several fluid changes, fixing the non functional lock up torque converter and replacing the rad (fluid was getting way too hot because of those 2 issues). Somewhere along the way it started working perfectly and has stayed that way for years on dexron 6. That's why I don't agree.
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Not failing, but have problems on long term.
I had a 2001 Ford Explorer with the V8 5.0L engine. Engine designed in 1968, probably for 20W40, but sold for a while with a requirement of 5W30.
In my model the manufacturer said 5W20. When I bought it after 8 years, with that engine warm, at idle RPM, only 15W50 was able to keep the oil pressure needle quiet, anything else would indicate low pressure. That was not Ford problem, since it was past warranty and they fulfilled the CAFE mandate. It was mine.
That Explorer had a transmission with Mercon V and it lasted 200k miles with that "non-synthetic" fluid. Rust got to its brake lines and frame eventually.
Same with a Mercury Sable that used Mercon V (non-synth) until was totaled at 170k miles.
I like synthetic oils that have the specs that my transmission came with, not lower. If I can't find, I use good, modern, oils that respect that specification. It's not hard to do, plenty of good alternatives.
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In case you weren't aware mercon v is synthetic blend. I used it working at the Ford dealer instead of dexron 3 and before switching to dexron 6 after doing much research on here. That was almost 20 years ago though.
I would personally never put a 20 weight in a small block Ford but I've seen lots of them have low oil pressure even when only run on 30 weights.
I'm open to other thicker transmission fluids as my transmission approaches 300k hard but well maintained miles, but so far it's performed identically with mercon v, dexron 6 and now maxlife. I can't afford amsoil and all of the "dexron 3" fluids available to me seemed like inferior products.
I think that Mercon V it's actually only Group 2+ (hydroprocessed).
Mercon LV is Group 3, Mercon ULV is 3+.
MERCON - Wikipedia
Datasheets:
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