1999 Columbine n Colorado

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Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
There's three things about the killer I don't understand:


1. Why did he kill a bunch of people he didn't know?

2. Why did he pick a movie theater to kill people?

3. Why did he throw his life away when he was young, healthy, and full of potential?


4) Why did he surrender peacefully to police and post an ad on an adult friend finder website asking for women to meet him in prison?
confused2.gif
That is the most bizarre thing.
 
Originally Posted By: AVB
The only thing wrong with 100 round magazines is that they don't work.


Yes, of course, so that IF they did, this lunatic could have flattened EVERY living being in that theater, without ever dreaming of reloading ONCE (and possibly being tackled/stopped), all in the name of the extremists'/purists' anti-"slippery slope" 'freedoms'.
 
Originally Posted By: Greggy_D
Originally Posted By: dailydriver

Are you suggesting that they ALL should have been armed to the teeth (maybe even the baby?), and had a blind, in the dark, free for all, shooting spree so that 10X as many would have died??



Guess what. That theater was a "gun-free" zone. Worked out real well for the victims, seeing that the shooter obviously obeyed the signs.

And your extravagant hyperbole is waiting for any type of facts/statistics to back up your 10x statement.


I guess I just don't have as much faith/trust in the darkened room aim of your typical firearms owner as you do.

Not everyone can be as perfect a marksman in pitch black conditions as you must be, especially with your 'mark' being fully protected in armored tactical gear.
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See otto, THIS is why I (and others) was (were) reluctant to start, or even post to, a thread on this subject.

It is actually a worse, and MUCH MORE polarizing a topic than even the banned ones on this here site.
wink.gif


(And the REAL extremists/purists on this site have not even weighed-in to this thread yet!
crazy2.gif
)
 
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Quote:


Guess what. That theater was a "gun-free" zone. Worked out real well for the victims, seeing that the shooter obviously obeyed the signs.

And your extravagant hyperbole is waiting for any type of facts/statistics to back up your 10x statement.


I guess I just don't have as much faith/trust in the darkened room aim of your typical firearms owner as you do.

Not everyone can be as perfect a marksman in pitch black conditions as you must be, especially with your 'mark' being fully protected in armored tactical gear.
smirk.gif


This. With the seat backs, crowding, people jumping over each other and darkness/ noise it would be about as dreadful as being on a hijacked plane and probably worse than a soccer riot. If you have training and re-up it every 6 months like an Air Marshall or something you might conceivably get "the Joker".

With a movie flickering in the background it's a perfect distraction actually that I bet they'll start using in such training exercises.
 
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
See otto, THIS is why I (and others) was (were) reluctant to start, or even post to, a thread on this subject.

It is actually a worse, and MUCH MORE polarizing a topic than even the banned ones on this here site.
wink.gif


(And the REAL extremists/purists on this site have not even weighed-in to this thread yet!
crazy2.gif
)
thumbsup2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
See otto, THIS is why I (and others) was (were) reluctant to start, or even post to, a thread on this subject.

It is actually a worse, and MUCH MORE polarizing a topic than even the banned ones on this here site.
wink.gif


(And the REAL extremists/purists on this site have not even weighed-in to this thread yet!
crazy2.gif
)


You call people who enjoy firearms and their constitutional right to use them "extremists"? Wow.

In the realm of gun enthusiasts, someone with 6,000 rounds of ammo, a couple handguns, an AR15 variant, a 100 round magazine etc. is pretty tame actually! I know 3 guys on my block that have all that!
lol.gif


Someone who enjoys shooting usually buys ammunition in bulk and doesn't like to reload magazines.
21.gif


There are plenty of people who legally own full auto weapons and have personal arsenals. Hundreds of firearms, full auto, stockpiles of ammunition (100K + rounds). Funny, it usually isn't those types engaging in mass shootings!
 
Originally Posted By: eljefino

This. With the seat backs, crowding, people jumping over each other and darkness/ noise it would be about as dreadful as being on a hijacked plane and probably worse than a soccer riot. If you have training and re-up it every 6 months like an Air Marshall or something you might conceivably get "the Joker".

With a movie flickering in the background it's a perfect distraction actually that I bet they'll start using in such training exercises.

This mentality is the problem. Did he go to police station and start shooting? A public gun range? Not even a public park?
He chose a location where he could be very sure of a high density of people that more than likely would be completely unarmed.

I don't know if the people in that theater wanted to carry a gun, but if they did, and regulations of either the theater or the government prevented them, they were denied their right to self defense.
If it was the theater's policy, then the people entering the theater willfully gave up their right.

As someone said earlier, bad guys do these things in gun free zones, and not the local police station for a reason.
 
Originally Posted By: dailydriver

Nothing is 'guaranteed', BUT, they should have expected and anticipated being butchered going to view a movie?!?!

Should people anticipate being killed in a car crash? There is no way to assure people's safety, and the police are under no legal obligation to protect you.
Quote:
Are you suggesting that they ALL should have been armed to the teeth (maybe even the baby?)

And you call people that believe in their right to self defense "extremists"? No where did I advocate such a thing. Babies??
If people wish to carry a weapon so as to defend themselves in a such a situation, they should be allowed. The need is self evident.

And the "Wild West" as you put was quite safe compared to modern cities:
http://www.examiner.com/article/dispelling-the-myth-of-the-wild-west
An armed populace, is a peaceful populace.
 
Originally Posted By: Tempest
An armed populace, is a peaceful populace.


So is a non-violent populace, armed or not. We have but a small fraction of the arms in Canada and violence up here is a smaller fraction of what you have. In Switzerland they're armed to the teeth and they're also much, much less prone to violence than Americans. Maybe it has less to do with arms and more to do with violence?

I'll tell you this much: If I had to live in the U.S. I would carry a weapon. I never give it a second thought here at home.
 
Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more

So is a non-violent populace, armed or not. We have but a small fraction of the arms in Canada and violence up here is a smaller fraction of what you have. In Switzerland they're armed to the teeth and they're also much, much less prone to violence than Americans. Maybe it has less to do with arms and more to do with violence?

I'll tell you this much: If I had to live in the U.S. I would carry a weapon. I never give it a second thought here at home.

You are describing one of the largest fallacies in county by country reporting. These statistics assume a perfect homogeneity of people and uniformity of location. This is of course totally incorrect.

Typically, big cities have the worst crime, and when you break it down further, particular neighborhoods in those cities are where the biggest problems exist.
These big cities usually have the most restrictive gun laws already on the books. It's the particular culture in these neighborhoods that causes most of the "gun crime" in the US.

So just because these neighborhoods happen to be in the US, doesn't mean that the "gun culture" of the US is bad.

Switzerland has 7.9 million people. Los Angeles County has more people than that. In terms of population and culture, these large cities are effectively nation states.
 
Don't underestimate the elite,

Heard of the "Hegelian Dialectic" ? Problem, reaction, solution.

interesting that this event happened DAYS before the US was going to sign on to a UN small arms treaty that WILL erode your
Second Amendment rights.
 
Originally Posted By: Tempest
You are describing one of the largest fallacies in county by country reporting. These statistics assume a perfect homogeneity of people and uniformity of location. This is of course totally incorrect.


Point taken; but the dynamic - socio-economically and demographically - between the differing areas/ neighbourhoods/ districts of any nation effectively render any comparative statistical analysis of these apples and those oranges moot, if this is the case. Nations whose rates of this crime or that crime or whose economies are indexed in this way or that still have, in lesser or sometimes greater ways, disparate classes of have's and have-not's. Many European nations (not to mention Canada) are as immigrant-laden as the U.S. and I am told a few even have places nearly as barren as Detroit. To that end, of course, Zurich and Compton could not be less similar! So *point taken*.

I've been to a good few international big cities; and although they admittedly do not suffer in the same way as American rust belt cities suffer things urban blight/ flight-of-the-affluent-to-the-suburbs and the ensuing erosion of inner-city tax bases, etc. there is still not the violence. People are packed more tightly with less affluence and less opportunity; yet there pervades still an overarching respect for human life!

This is only my personal observation, and carries no implication of factual or statistical merit: The U.S., being the most wealthy and powerful nation in history (thanks to violence plus abundant resources) has attracted the most ambitious, greedy, industrious, hard-working, materialistic people from all over the earth for years and years and years. Why do they come? Why did the first ones come and every one after that come? For opportunity and individual freedom. Over generations and generations it has become by far the most culturally individualist nations on earth, populated by those who came to compete for a slice of the pie; mostly due to the *lack* of necessity of the community that less affluent nations are still forced into by circumstances. This rugged individualism, I believe, is a natural forbearer to a culture of violence. I have seen many people comment on these boards that it is perfectly acceptable to shoot (and injure of even kill) someone who is attempting to steal your stuff. Your *stuff*. Again, this is just my observations, but I think that such a concentration on the adversarial nature of competition for artificially-limited resources, consumerism and individualism can twist the minds of some and, as a broader stroke, lessen the respect for the sacredness of human life. I think that for every "x" number of people who do what they're supposed to do and work hard and live decent lives there are going to be "y" number of people who finds themselves isolated on the fringes of society. This isolation, over time, does terrible things to people.
 
Great post...and I agree in fairly large part.

Part of Aussie "society" now is thugs, or gangs of them, predating on people, and killing them with their fists/boots, sans guns.
 
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: Greggy_D
Originally Posted By: dailydriver

Are you suggesting that they ALL should have been armed to the teeth (maybe even the baby?), and had a blind, in the dark, free for all, shooting spree so that 10X as many would have died??



Guess what. That theater was a "gun-free" zone. Worked out real well for the victims, seeing that the shooter obviously obeyed the signs.

And your extravagant hyperbole is waiting for any type of facts/statistics to back up your 10x statement.


I guess I just don't have as much faith/trust in the darkened room aim of your typical firearms owner as you do.

Not everyone can be as perfect a marksman in pitch black conditions as you must be, especially with your 'mark' being fully protected in armored tactical gear.
smirk.gif

I carry a gun, so I carry a flashlight. You identify your target before you fire.
 
I wonder if these mass killings we have seen in recent years are Media driven,
Some sicko giving it 'his all' for the proverbial 15min of fame?

What if the name and details of the perp were withheld from the media?
 
It's interesting that the people calling for an armed populace don't have a real grasp of the history of mass shootings, and don't understand the mentality behind them. The people who carry out this sort of crime are very calculating, and it's often well planned out.

Texas, with some of the most lenient gun laws, is home to some of the most notorious mass shooting incidents. In 1991 George Hennard opened fire at a restaurant, casually killing 23 people and wounding 20 before killing himself. With his element of surprise no one shot back, in an area where a very high percentage of the population carries guns.

Charles Whitman killed 14 and injured 32 others in 1966 at the University of Texas. He killed himself when police were finally closing in. Again, the state with a very high percentage of gun ownership, and no one could take him out before he finished it himself.

Want to go back even further to a time when gun laws were virtually non-existent? Chattanooga, TN in 1868. Three dead following a shooting by a disgruntled student.

Brunswick, GA in 1915 a man killed 7 and wounded 32 in a mass shooting.

Bath, MI 1927 a man killed 45 people and wounded 58.

Fairfield, CA, 1928. A man killed 11 and wounded 4 others on a farm (doesn't every farmer have a gun?).

These types of killings are nothing new, and there will always be a small segment of the population that is driven to make a point (no matter how deranged it may be) by murdering lots of innocent people. If you were to arm every citizen and train them to use guns, the bad guys would go into crowded theaters with bombs strapped to their waist.

And in case you think this is strictly a US problem, think again. A little research will find plenty of mass shootings worldwide, starting in the 1700's.
 
Originally Posted By: Tim H.
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Nothing is 'guaranteed', BUT, they should have expected and anticipated being butchered going to view a movie?!?!


Yes. While the probabilities are not really that high in most places, you should expect to be robbed, raped, killed, etc., Everytime you go out, as you can not read the minds or control the actions of any one person. If you could, there would be no crime.

Good post. Like it or not, when I'm out among the populace, I am ALWAYS watching and judging those around me in terms of possible altercations. As a man especially, when I am out with my girlfriend I feel it is my MORAL duty to be a sentinel....a guardian if you will. Danger can and does exist all around us. I am not a huge supporter of the NRA nor do I wear t-shirts emblazoned with the second amendment. But I do realize and agree with the right to bear arms. I'm in the process right now of increasing my weapons choices and ammo amounts so that I may be better equipped to handle situations and protect myself, my girlfriend.....and perhaps even an innocent bystander. I'm not a religious man either....don't even believe in a God....but we share this world with MANY evil people. These scum can and will kill at any moment....in any place.
 
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