'13 Honda 3.5L replacement filter--my head hurts.

[atoalson]

Hey guys, I'll be picking up my ordered '13 Accord EX-L V6 in several weeks. I have looked at oil filter info till I'm blue in the face and my head hurts. I see synthetic media as well as cellulose. It seems that better filtration sacrifices flow. Better flow lets biggger particulates thru the filter. I'm need help divulging all this info, I kinda like the way the WIX XP/Napa Platinum sound but cant find any real data for them. The Purolator PureOne and Synthetic also peeked my interest as well as the Mobil 1 filter.

Can you guys pull me out of this state of confusion and get me on the right track. I want to pick a oil/filter combo and stick with it.

 

[Danno]

What about using OEM filter and OEM oil - at least while under warranty - and sleeping well at night?

 

[bepperb]

The Honda j series V6 has been on the market since 1999. If there were longevity issues due to lubrication they probably would have surfaced by now. Short of some long OCI VCM issues they haven't. The filter you buy will have very little impact on the longevity or performance of that engine.

Find something else to obsess over. The leather seats won't last nearly as long as the drivetrain, in my experience.

 

[Mark_Walk]

If you are going to follow warrantee OCI's then go with the better filtering, lower flow filters like the P1. You will change it long before it's full of dirt. Any of them would work fine though.

 

[Quest]

I can't believe you would be so anall about oil filters and such.

IMHO factory oil filters are always a good start. Aftermakets are mostly fine as well.

I learned not to lose sleep over oil fliters, filter media, resin-impregnated fibre end caps or silicone ADBV, etc.

At the end of the day: all oil filters (to me) are the same, and they get the job done.

Sleep well.

Q.

 

[ZeeOSix]

The only real time that "better filtration sacrifices flow" is when you're running at very high RPM which would make the positive displacement oil pump go into pressure relief. The only other thing you gain from a more "free flowing" oil filter is a little more headroom before the oil pump goes into pressure relief, and also less loading rate over the OCI so more headroom before the filter might go in to bypass.

But if you don't race your car, and you do good maintenance (ie, keep the guts of the engine clean and sludge free), then a more efficient filter with a hair more flow resistance will never be noticed. There are plenty of very high efficiency filters with more than sufficient flow.

 

[2oldtommy]

Stick to the OLM with filter changes at every change. The OEM filter is certainly the way to go unless you have a specific problem. This drivetrain should last well over 100K miles. FWIW--Oldtommy

 

[atoalson]

Originally Posted By: Danno
What about using OEM filter and OEM oil - at least while under warranty - and sleeping well at night?


You know enthusiast cant leave anything alone and have to obsess over the small things

 

[dnewton3]

Any qualified lube and filter will make your engine last far longer than you care to own it. Find products that meet or exceed OEM specs, and you'll be fine.

 

[danthaman1980]

Yes, the flow vs. filtration dilemma has cost many a good BITOGer a headache or a sleepless night here and there. I don't particularly like either of the extremes, so careful compromise is the only solution.

I personally feel that river_rat did a good job testing filtration, and there was another very good filtration test on another forum by someone named Aloicious - but nobody has definitively answered the flow equation (river_rat had some qualitative flow data, but not much quantitative flow data).

A decade ago, Bob (of Bobistheoilguy) had a really nice bench testing setup for measuring pressure drop through an oil filter, but to my knowledge it was only run with cold motor oil... never hot oil or with a fluid that emulates the viscosity of hot oil, so I'm not sure that work ever yielded any valuable results.

Many here will argue that the restrictiveness, or pressure drop, is meaningless since most cars are equipped with positive displacement oil pumps - so a more restrictive filter will result in higher pressure on the input side but result in the same pressure on the output side (versus a less restrictive filter). In theory that is true; but 1) it does result in the oil pump having to do more 'work' to achieve the same oil flow, and 2) it doesn't explain why my truck doesn't like PureOne filters.

I'm still looking for answers.

 

[atoalson]

Do the synthetic media filters IE; Purolator Syn, Wix XP catch the smaller particles at the itty bitty expense of flow? Or do they flow easier at the expense of filtering out the small stuff versus the non synthetic media filters.

I know the stock filter will work without any problems but I can't leave well enough alone. I really want to install a better than stock filter right there at the dealership before I leave with the car. I know, I know...

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: danthaman1980
I personally feel that river_rat did a good job testing filtration, and there was another very good filtration test on another forum by someone named Aloicious - but nobody has definitively answered the flow equation (river_rat had some qualitative flow data, but not much quantitative flow data).

A decade ago, Bob (of Bobistheoilguy) had a really nice bench testing setup for measuring pressure drop through an oil filter, but to my knowledge it was only run with cold motor oil... never hot oil or with a fluid that emulates the viscosity of hot oil, so I'm not sure that work ever yielded any valuable results.


Here's real bench data with hot oil. As you can see the delta-P (PSID) across the media isn't very much with hot oil.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...451#Post1619451

Originally Posted By: danthaman1980
Many here will argue that the restrictiveness, or pressure drop, is meaningless since most cars are equipped with positive displacement oil pumps - so a more restrictive filter will result in higher pressure on the input side but result in the same pressure on the output side (versus a less restrictive filter). In theory that is true; but 1) it does result in the oil pump having to do more 'work' to achieve the same oil flow, and 2) it doesn't explain why my truck doesn't like PureOne filters.

I'm still looking for answers.


In my previous post up from this one a ways, I also stated other slight advantages you would get with a "better flowing oil filter". As said, unless you are cruising around at near red line all day long (or revving high with a cold start thereby putting the filter in bypass or the pump in pressure relief), your engine will never know the difference between oil filters with slightly different flow restrictiveness (talking flow vs PSID characteristics).

 

[jfking106]

Originally Posted By: Danno
What about using OEM filter and OEM oil - at least while under warranty - and sleeping well at night?


Pretty much a no-brainer...

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: atoalson
Do the synthetic media filters IE; Purolator Syn, Wix XP catch the smaller particles at the itty bitty expense of flow? Or do they flow easier at the expense of filtering out the small stuff versus the non synthetic media filters.

I know the stock filter will work without any problems but I can't leave well enough alone. I really want to install a better than stock filter right there at the dealership before I leave with the car. I know, I know...

All of the top tier full synthetic filters are around 98~99% at 20~25 microns. They flow better too, just because that's the nature of the full synthetic media. Go Google search full synthetic oil filter media and read up why ... it's because of the nature and size of the synthetic fibers vs. the cellulose fibers and how they trap particles and maintain flow.

 

[gregk24]

Go OEM with the oil filter. I went through this same dilemma with my Accord. The OEM filter IS designed to HONDAS specs. And they favor flow over filtration. They have good construction, not as good as some high end filter but good enough to have it on for 2 MM oil changes. There is someone on here who has used only Honda OEM filters for the life of his car which now has over 400,000 miles on it. So the Honda filter is perfectly capable. I only use OEM Honda filters on my Accord now, I tried a Fram Ultra (a high end synthetic filter with metal endcaps and what not) and it made my car tick when starting. The Honda filter has given me no issues. I like knowing I have a filter on there that is made to Hondas specs.

 

[OriginHacker21]

I second the call to do OEM since it is flow > filtration. I did the same with my 2013 Civic.

When I bought my car (my first new car) the first thing I did was hit BITOG and lose days of sleep over trying to find the perfect oil with tons of moly in it for my engine. After spending a week fretting about that, I dove into oil filters and about lost my mind. It looks like the Honda A02? filters are Fram Ultraguards designed for Honda's recommendation of 2 OCIs instead of 1 so they favor flow over filtration. Honda's maintenance minder recommends changing oil filter every OTHER oil change. I had the dealer change it anyway for my first oil change.

After a few weeks of freaking out, spending way too much time trying to find out hard to find information that changes all the time - I figured, to just go OEM on oil and filters. After making that decision, the itch to keep researching was there for awhile but now I sleep better.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: OriginHacker21
After spending a week fretting about that, I dove into oil filters and about lost my mind.

 

[danthaman1980]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Here's real bench data with hot oil. As you can see the delta-P (PSID) across the media isn't very much with hot oil.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...451#Post1619451


I've seen that thread before, and it still does not look like comparative bench test data on hot oil to me... all I see there is flow data for one filter with hot oil; it doesn't do much good if there aren't other filters in the test to comare it to.

Trust me, I really want to like the super high efficiency P1, but in my application I have not been satisfied. I keep going back to Wix/Napa Gold, K&N, and Mobil 1 (and AC Delco PF59, when I can find them).

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: danthaman1980
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Here's real bench data with hot oil. As you can see the delta-P (PSID) across the media isn't very much with hot oil.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...451#Post1619451


I've seen that thread before, and it still does not look like comparative bench test data on hot oil to me... all I see there is flow data for one filter with hot oil; it doesn't do much good if there aren't other filters in the test to comare it to.

Trust me, I really want to like the super high efficiency P1, but in my application I have not been satisfied. I keep going back to Wix/Napa Gold, K&N, and Mobil 1 (and AC Delco PF59, when I can find them).


Other good brand name oil filters will be within a few PSID over that flow range of that PureOne in the test. The difference in PSID will not be noticed by 99.9% of the engines.

And frankly, I don't really understand the KIA/Hyundai ticking engine issue ... the only conclusion I've come to is that their oil pumps are weak, and/or the people that have experience bad ticking have gotten some Chinese counterfeit filter made with recycled cardboard for media that is super restrictive, or something crazy like that.

 

[tc1446]

Originally Posted By: atoalson
Do the synthetic media filters IE; Purolator Syn, Wix XP catch the smaller particles at the itty bitty expense of flow? Or do they flow easier at the expense of filtering out the small stuff versus the non synthetic media filters.

I know the stock filter will work without any problems but I can't leave well enough alone. I really want to install a better than stock filter right there at the dealership before I leave with the car. I know, I know...

The ones you mentioned plus Fram Ultra. All are synthetic.