13 flight attendants fired - messages on a plane

[Shannow]

Background as to my feelings on this, during "exam period" in my "matriculation" (don't know the comparable US term, final year of high school (Y12) final exams etc.), the math/science exams were plagued with bomb threats...10-15 minutes into exam, school evacuated, exams had to be reheld...by plagued, it was really three exams. All math/science, no threats ever in the humanities (actally said a lot for whoever was doing the calls...humanities students getting out of science/math by terrorising a school ???)

I'd done 1-1/2 math, so had 2 exams, and the second was in the last few days of the week long exam period.

Principal walked into the room, and stated that they'd had another bomb threat, and "having had so many, we all know it's a hoax, so while the school advises that you leave, your exam will be marked as of current completion status, and not be resat".

A couple of us argued that were we to be testing readiness, we'd wait until there was no response before we did something...but we all stayed, and sweated it out...

So I feel for this incident...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2015-01-07...ing-images.html

Quote:
Thirteen former United Airlines (UAL) flight attendants say they were improperly fired last year after refusing to work on a Boeing Co. (BA) 747 jumbo jet that had “menacing” images drawn below its tail.

The attendants say they had a right to disobey orders to make the July 14 San Francisco-to-Hong Kong trip after the words “bye bye” were found written in an oil slick on the fuselage, according to a complaint to the U.S. Occupational Health and Safety Administration. Two faces, one smiling and one “devilish,” were drawn nearby, according to the complaint.

 

[Propflux01]

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. While more than likely it was mechanics just goofing off, in today's society you really can't chance it.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: Propflux01
It will be interesting to see how this plays out. While more than likely it was mechanics just goofing off, in today's society you really can't chance it.


Agreed, there's a backstory, and (hopefully) an investigation, and a bunch of mechanics on the dole queue/unemployable for what they did.

 

[Astro14]

I never heard anything about this until now.

But I am curious - how did the flight attendants know what was written below the tail? They board through the jet bridge. The underside of the APU/tail one isn't visible from the terminal. They never walk around on the ramp in SFO...so how did they see these images?

By the way, I see nothing threatening in the oil slick graffiti...I would have flown it too.

The UAL flight attendants were in contract negotiations when this happened...and it strikes me as considered over-reaction...

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
But I am curious - how did the flight attendants know what was written below the tail? They board through the jet bridge. They never walk around on the ramp in SFO...so how did they see these images?

I'm guessing someone from the ground crew took a picture and then shared it with the attendants.

 

[Astro14]

Exactly. So based on a picture that someone else took, of an image that might have been on there for a couple of flights, they determined it was unsafe to fly?

I love this line in the article, "They just decided that they were not going to endanger the passengers, themselves, the crew.” But they also said, "“The flight attendants did not make a decision that United could not fly the plane,”

Well which is it? They weren't going to fly because it would endanger the passengers, but it would be OK if it flew without them? Wouldn't that present exactly the same danger to the passengers? But it's OK because those 13 aren't on it?

Sure, sure, this was all about safety...it was for the children! It was for the passengers!

Couldn't possibly have been a job action during contract negotiations...

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
Exactly. So based on a picture that someone else took,

Possibly, after they saw the picture, they went out and checked it out with their own eyes. The article didn't mention any specifics.

 

[dishdude]

This just goes to show what a joke the TSA and airport security are. What they put you through to board a flight, meanwhile the planes themselves are accessible to stowaways that can hide in wheel wells, people immature enough to draw on the tail and employees of airlines are smuggling firearms in carry ons. This re enforces what a joke taking our shoes off and random pat downs with tests for explosives are.

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Exactly. So based on a picture that someone else took,

Possibly, after they saw the picture, they went out and checked it out with their own eyes. The article didn't mention any specifics.




I've never seen a SFO flight attendant walk out on the ramp. Ever. The 747 in SFO is crewed with the most senior flight attendants in the UAL system, the ones who were most upset with contract negotiations....

You saw the picture in the article, right?

Didn't look like a threat to me....

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted By: dishdude
This just goes to show what a joke the TSA and airport security are. What they put you through to board a flight, meanwhile the planes themselves are accessible to stowaways that can hide in wheel wells, people immature enough to draw on the tail and employees of airlines are smuggling firearms in carry ons. This re enforces what a joke taking our shoes off and random pat downs with tests for explosives are.


OK, I am not a TSA fan. They focus on what gets on board, when the threat is created, not by nail clippers, but by who gets on board...

But this graffiti has nothing to do with TSA...and none of your points support how in effective the TSA procedures actually are.

Seriously, stowaways? Never happens in the US. Happens in other countries once in a while, but not here.

Is TSA supposed to check the "immaturity" of everyone coming through?

That sure would filter out a lot of our passengers, then...

No one has smuggled firearms in carry-on bags, the smuggling took place with checked luggage going into NYC.

 

[dishdude]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: dishdude
This just goes to show what a joke the TSA and airport security are. What they put you through to board a flight, meanwhile the planes themselves are accessible to stowaways that can hide in wheel wells, people immature enough to draw on the tail and employees of airlines are smuggling firearms in carry ons. This re enforces what a joke taking our shoes off and random pat downs with tests for explosives are.


OK, I am not a TSA fan. They focus on what gets on board, when the threat is created, not by nail clippers, but by who gets on board...

But this graffiti has nothing to do with TSA...and none of your points support how in effective the TSA procedures actually are.

Seriously, stowaways? Never happens in the US. Happens in other countries once in a while, but not here.

Is TSA supposed to check the "immaturity" of everyone coming through?

That sure would filter out a lot of our passengers, then...

No one has smuggled firearms in carry-on bags, the smuggling took place with checked luggage going into NYC.


My point might not have come across - the TSA is creating this illusion of safety with an abundance of caution at passenger checkpoints meanwhile all these other threats are going on behind the scenes.

Stowaway out of SJC just a few months ago - http://abcnews.go.com/US/stowaway-video-exiting-planes-wheel-death-defying-flight/story?id=23402777

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
Didn't look like a threat to me....

Maybe they should have taken a vote among the passengers of that flight.

Personally, I'd be somewhat disturbed if this was written on a plane I was about to take.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
No one has smuggled firearms in carry-on bags, the smuggling took place with checked luggage going into NYC.

I fly (a lot) and so do others in my organization. I personally know of two instances where two of my colleagues had carry-on bags with ammunition inside (not intentional) and it was not detected by TSA. With the sheer number of passengers screened on a daily basis, I wonder how much of a stretch it would be for a firearm to slip through...

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Didn't look like a threat to me....

Maybe they should have taken a vote among the passengers of that flight.

Personally, I'd be somewhat disturbed if this was written on a plane I was about to take.


Me as well. I would not have flown on that plane for any amount of money. The world has become a sick and dangerous place. Just look at what happened in Paris yesterday. You just never know. It could have been a joke or it could have been a terrorist message. I wouldn't want to have to find out which by flying.

I will say that when/if they find out who did it they should throw the book at them. That is NOT funny and IMO is not a joke.

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Didn't look like a threat to me....

Maybe they should have taken a vote among the passengers of that flight.

Personally, I'd be somewhat disturbed if this was written on a plane I was about to take.


No way I would let the passengers vote on anything related to the safety or operation of a plane. Voting would require some understanding of the issue (at least one hopes). Voting is an invitation to mob rule. And the mob really isn't the best method for an informed, thoughtful decision.

That's my job.

I've had instances where I was concerned about a threat to the airplane, the passengers, of course, were oblivious to what had happened and protested loudly when I told them we would be delayed for a security check.

Good thing we didn't take a vote.

I've had instances where the passengers didn't understand why we had to delay four hours in Charlotte to replace an inoperative engine anti ice valve. "It's warm out!" "What are you guys trying to pull!!" I stood at the gate and explained, politely, that the air gets colder with altitude, and while its 50 degrees here in Charlotte, it would be below freezing in any clouds we would encounter, and that keeping the engines running was among my highest priorities.

Good thing we didn't take a vote.

If you get a premonition, or odd feeling, fine, don't get on. It's easy. Don't expect to get a refund, or be rebooked with priority, after all, you declined the flight that you contracted for, but we will get you on another one soon.

But letting passengers vote?

Please.....

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
But letting passengers vote?

Please.....

I was being sarcastic. I tried to basically point out that what did not seem like a threat to you may have seemed like a threat to someone else who was actually there at the time.

I can easily see the same crew members being punished by the airline (and the general public) for not taking these "signs" seriously if something bad ended up happening on that flight.

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Originally Posted By: Astro14
No one has smuggled firearms in carry-on bags, the smuggling took place with checked luggage going into NYC.

I fly (a lot) and so do others in my organization. I personally know of two instances where two of my colleagues had carry-on bags with ammunition inside (not intentional) and it was not detected by TSA. With the sheer number of passengers screened on a daily basis, I wonder how much of a stretch it would be for a firearm to slip through...


Smuggling is deliberate.

A firearm is a whole lot different on X-ray than a loose round or two.

The incident which was referred to took place in NYC, it was deliberate placement of firearms in bags after they were screened by TSA.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/23/us/delta-employee-gun-smuggling/

That's smuggling.

TSA was circumvented because the employee smuggled them in. They didn't go through screening.

But the TSA does catch guns in folks luggage: http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/02/travel/tsa-seizes-record-2000-guns/index.html

Mind you, I am NOT a TSA fan. For all your complaining, I have to go through this circus every day at work. Every day. You may fly, a lot, but it's nowhere near as much as I do.

Let's park a TSA checkpoint outside your office for the next 14 years, and then you can experience the joy that I have with TSA.

Finally, remember this, whether TSA allows me to keep a bazooka, or takes away my nail clipper, I'm flying the plane.

 

[Astro14]

Sorry QP, I missed the sarcasm.

It's precisely because this grafitti is subjective that the decision should be made by an informed, objective, professional.

Flight attendants who are riled up about a contract, that didn't see it first hand, do not meet the above definition.

 

[splinter]

Quite a bit of fluid discharge evident on that fuselage.

 

[chainblu]

While I feel the flight attendants over-reacted in this case, I do understand their concern. I'm sure somebody got a rag and wiped off the oil stain and the plane went on its merry way (at some point).

However... what if... the plane had gone on Hong Kong as scheduled and blew up or otherwise crashed in the Pacific.

Now the entire flight crew are going to labeled as the biggest morons in the industry.