'12 Civic SI?

[Bill in Utah]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
If this isn't going to be an immediate purchase, I would consider waiting for the Focus ST.

http://www.ford.com/cars/focus/focusst/



Off topic but are they SERIOUS at Ford?

Quote:
The muscular high-performance exhaust system peeks out through a central dual-pipe design at the rear of the vehicle. It’s tuned to deliver a confident growl under power. And to help make sure you hear that rumble of excitement coming from under the hood, the Focus ST is equipped with a sound symposer box. It’s designed to enrich the natural sounds of the vehicle by capturing internal engine oscillations and piping them through the interior.


Really?

 

[JHZR2]

LOL, now THAT is boy racer!

 

[Hokiefyd]

The 2012 Civic SI is proof that you simply can't please everyone, but it's a fairly decent effort at trying. Honda purists will claim that Honda has gotten away from its core. Honda critics will claim the same thing. Mainstream owners (those who buy the most vehicles) say that 8,000 rpm redlines are good for little else besides impressing your buddies or racing other high-revvers, and that they'd prefer more low-end and less redline.

So what do you do? Honda seems to be in a lose-lose situation. They've done a pretty good job at maximizing top-end power while retaining good midrange torque with their 2- and 3-stage VTEC systems, but at the end of the day you can only do so much with natural aspiration. This is one reason the S2000's original displacement of 2.0L was increased to 2.2L.

I don't think 2.4L for an inline-4 is unreasonably large. That's the same as a 3.6L V-6 and the same as a 4.8L V-8. Those aren't all that big for 6- and 8-cylinder engines.

One option is to buy a regular Civic (with the 1.8L) and put an SI suspension under it. Sure, it might cost another $1,500 up front, but if the true end state is a tossable and frugal car, what's a little more money up front if you get what you really want?

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd

I don't think 2.4L for an inline-4 is unreasonably large. That's the same as a 3.6L V-6 and the same as a 4.8L V-8. Those aren't all that big for 6- and 8-cylinder engines.


12 Si Sedan = 2895lb, 201hp, 170tq.
91 318i sedan = 2657lb, 134hp, 127tq.

Yeah, Id say it is unreasonably large.

Remember, RWD/FWD aside, Im looking for a car like my 91 318i, which is more than fast enough and more than willing enough to do anything I ask it to. Its like a little go-kart.

The Si strikes me as the same, down to it even having an LSD.

 

[Nick R]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd

I don't think 2.4L for an inline-4 is unreasonably large. That's the same as a 3.6L V-6 and the same as a 4.8L V-8. Those aren't all that big for 6- and 8-cylinder engines.


12 Si Sedan = 2895lb, 201hp, 170tq.
91 318i sedan = 2657lb, 134hp, 127tq.

Yeah, Id say it is unreasonably large.

Remember, RWD/FWD aside, Im looking for a car like my 91 318i, which is more than fast enough and more than willing enough to do anything I ask it to. Its like a little go-kart.

The Si strikes me as the same, down to it even having an LSD.


I haven't driven a sonic, but most of the reviews I've read put it down as fun and nimble to drive, plus it has about the same power as your 318 with the 1.4T, but more torque, and about the same weight.

 

[Mr Nice]

So the Civic Si gets the same gas mileage as a base 6 speed Corvette coupe with over 400 horsepower ?

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
LOL, now THAT is boy racer!


Agreed, though if I recall, BMW just did the same thing (the engine sounds going to the inside, I think through the stereo?).

I think the central exhaust actually looks decent.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Nick R
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd

I don't think 2.4L for an inline-4 is unreasonably large. That's the same as a 3.6L V-6 and the same as a 4.8L V-8. Those aren't all that big for 6- and 8-cylinder engines.


12 Si Sedan = 2895lb, 201hp, 170tq.
91 318i sedan = 2657lb, 134hp, 127tq.

Yeah, Id say it is unreasonably large.

Remember, RWD/FWD aside, Im looking for a car like my 91 318i, which is more than fast enough and more than willing enough to do anything I ask it to. Its like a little go-kart.

The Si strikes me as the same, down to it even having an LSD.


I haven't driven a sonic, but most of the reviews I've read put it down as fun and nimble to drive, plus it has about the same power as your 318 with the 1.4T, but more torque, and about the same weight.


Except it is ugly IMHO and has a gaudy gauge cluster setup.

The Civic is a better looking car and while I'm not a fan of the dash, at least it doesn't look like it was a prop from ET.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Remember, RWD/FWD aside, Im looking for a car like my 91 318i, which is more than fast enough and more than willing enough to do anything I ask it to. Its like a little go-kart.

The Si strikes me as the same, down to it even having an LSD.


It looks like you'll either need to "settle" for the larger engine in the SI, or buy something like an EX and install SI or similar suspension tidbits. You get the fuel economy benefits of the smaller engine and the handling benefits of a tauter suspension.

 

[rationull]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: rationull

I think the '12 Si makes the most sense as kind of a baby TSX. It doesn't seem fast or sharp enough to compete with the "hot" compacts that are more sport focused. To be fair, though, I haven't driven one.


A baby accord???!? Well, isnt that what a civic is?

TSX does nothing for me. Seems that the SI is designed to be more of a tossable little car than a TSX ever would be. After all, there is no accord SI, thus why we have the TSX, but it is too much of a luxury car approach, IMO.

A TSX is not a 3-series.


Yes, I'm sure the Si is more tossable than the TSX. What I meant by the "baby TSX" comment was that the car is somewhat softer than its "faster" competition (e.g. Mazdaspeed3). It should be a good, well balanced all-around package as opposed to a focused sport or "luxury" machine. I've also heard this analogy in comparison with the 8th gen Si which was somewhat more hard-edged than the '12. Of course the fact that it has the TSX engine contributes too

As I said though, I haven't driven one.

I can't really count the TSX as an "Accord Si" given the TSX is so close in power to the Accord (of same cylinder count).

Originally Posted By: JHZR2

Given that I own a >$40k DI twin turbo car, I cant say Im that scared of a DI econobox.

I always liked the protege. Seemed like a nice car from that approach. The 3 doesnt do it for me somehow... While it strikes me as a spiced up corolla or civic, it seems that the SI is in the sweet spot between being higher performance without being a turbo'd, blown, attempt at being a WRX wannabe in FWD. Im not looking for a hot hatch type car. I have a car that can get to 60 in 5 seconds. Im looking for a better handling and driving version of the econobox, like my 318i is.

But I may be wrong on that.


I realized after I wrote the DI comment that your 135 meant you're not *completely* opposed to it but I could imagine wanting a simpler setup in an econobox. Really, though, the Mazda3 *is* "a better handling and driving version of the econobox". Note I'm talking about the regular Mazda3, not the DI turbo Speed3. The SkyActive should get better mileage than the Si (I would hope) on regular gas instead of premium, and while it's down on power I think it probably has enough for what you're looking for. My wife's 08 w/ the 2.3 is quite a good car to drive. It's not going to be quite as sporty as the Si, and it may not measure up for that reason, but unless you're completely averse to it it would be worth a comparison IMO. My wife's 08 Mazda3s is really a great car. More tossable than my 07 Civic EX coupe was, although with Si suspension the Civic probably would've been better.

Now, personally, I think the '12 Civic looks better than the 2nd gen Mazda3, but that's a different issue and more subjective.

 

[Rand]

IMO if you havent driven a mazda lately. Go drive one.

They still tune them to be fun to drive, and the MT was one of the best feeling when I was test driving.

Add in the new engines get much better fuel economy.. and boom.

Its worthy at least of consideration/test drive

And I'm sorry but your 91' is 20 years old.. They have to put some much more equipment on cars now.. that nothing will be similar.

 

[nleksan]

I just had the chance to play with, but not drive, a '13 Focus ST... Incredibly impressed. It looks much different in person, and the interior is about 3-classes-up from its pricepoint. I took a half dozen pics or so with my phone, if you are interested? I managed to forget my DSLR, but my GNex takes decent photos, though I am not a great photographer admittedly.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Everything I've seen indicates the new Focus may be a benchmark car for the lil squirter segment.

It really hauls and turns, something only Mazda seemed to understand in the econobox arena.